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Retrofit Plug-In for a full hybrid car.


nuccio
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Yeah, Frank's all right.
I've made that observation.
How many times in a year I do only 3 Km, how many times only 5 Km, how many times 10 Km, how many times 20 Km, etc...
With surprise I have noticed that every time I cover only 10 Km, in fact I cover also the 3 Km and also the 5 Km.
So I realized that every day of the year I did the first 3 Km, and in any case in most of the days I did 5 Km.
It happens to me that I exceed 40 km 10/20 times a year.
Then there are the long trips but they are 3/4 times a year.
24 long distances against 300 short trips. The other days I stay at home or walk.

I would settle for 2 Kw/h to do 10 Km in pure electric. I would be satisfied 300 days a year.
But it's not that the other days I would be dissatisfied because I would do 10 Km in electric anyway.

I know that this is not the case for many people, because they make longer journeys but we also consider the fact that we have a hybrid and therefore we do not suffer the anxiety of autonomy as pure electrics, so every mile more welcome but it is not essential.
 

Best Regards

Nuccio

 

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20 hours ago, nuccio said:

Yeah, Frank's all right.
I've made that observation.
How many times in a year I do only 3 Km, how many times only 5 Km, how many times 10 Km, how many times 20 Km, etc...
With surprise I have noticed that every time I cover only 10 Km, in fact I cover also the 3 Km and also the 5 Km.
So I realized that every day of the year I did the first 3 Km, and in any case in most of the days I did 5 Km.
It happens to me that I exceed 40 km 10/20 times a year.
Then there are the long trips but they are 3/4 times a year.
24 long distances against 300 short trips. The other days I stay at home or walk.

I would settle for 2 Kw/h to do 10 Km in pure electric. I would be satisfied 300 days a year.
But it's not that the other days I would be dissatisfied because I would do 10 Km in electric anyway.

I know that this is not the case for many people, because they make longer journeys but we also consider the fact that we have a hybrid and therefore we do not suffer the anxiety of autonomy as pure electrics, so every mile more welcome but it is not essential.
 

Best Regards

Nuccio

 

Our Prius 2015 Plug In Gen 1 has 4.4 kWh Battery and manage to be driven about 15 km in just pure Ev mode ( no ICE kicking in) in this Swedish winter (average about 2-7 C warm degrees) and about 20 km in our summer (average about 20-25 C degrees).

One thing with our gen 1 is that it has't any ev heatpump (prius gen 2 2017-19 got an ev heat pump) so the ICE will kick in from start (to warm up the car) and then in about each 1.5-2 km until you reach about 8 km then (when warm) it will run on EV. This isn't ideal for short trips

Really like our Prius PHEV 2015 though and it pairs (feels/looks quite familiar) with our Prius Plus 2017. But... would love to manage more km in pure EV mode

so... all suggestions/ideas to achieve that are very welcome

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On 4/9/2020 at 7:08 AM, Catlover said:

Hello Nuccio, sounds interesting what you are suggesting. I am keen to learn more about the technicalities, and if you go ahead with a project as to how it develops. But doing it on a 12 month old car (if that), what if it all goes wrong and you waste a load of money experimenting? Could hurt your wallet seriously.

I will follow this topic with interest , too.

 

Saw that VW offers an convert kit to electrify old VW busses but... to the cost of 65.000 Euro

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Dear SHDish

also I would love to manage more km in pure EV mode.

Every extra mile made in Electric mode is a success for me.

My goal is not to make a Plug-in with a range of 50/60 Km when I only need 10/20. I don't want to carry so much useless weight and reduced boot space. 

My goal is not to make a Plug-in with a range of 50/60 Km when I only need 10/20. I don't want to carry so much useless weight and reduced boot space. 

Your experience with the Prius 2015 Plug In Gen 1  is very interesting.

In fact, I don't know what kind of heater is on my Corolla, but whatever it is, it will in any case result in a considerable loss of electrical autonomy.

It would be interesting to have a pre-heating system that heats the inside of the car and the ICE engine before leaving home.

But this is another project and maybe it is already on the market.

I am writing a description of the kit that I would like to do, which will allow us to evaluate whether it meets all the criteria highlighted in this discussion.

Best regards

Nuccio


 

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Nuccio, don't forget the great difference in the mileage of electric vehicles depending on the weather and/or road conditions as well as the driving style.

I have a friend with Hyundai Kona electric 64kW. It should have a range of at least 400km. In real life and winter conditions (but no snow and no sub-zero temperatures) he almost manages to reach a city 320 km away from his home. Only 70 km of these 320 are motorway! And he needs to drive with up to 80km/h to have enough battery for that journey. Pure city driving with 85% charged Battery is enough for around 200km only.

So consider carefully your required 10/20km of range. Are they "no matter what I need at least so", are they for winter (according this same friend of mine, there is more than 30% less range in cold weather), are you doing to drive every time extremely economically, etc.

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Hello Oxigen
Thank you for sharing your experiences and those of your friend.
Autonomy in the winter months is a problem that afflicts both plug-ins and pure electricity. However, while for pure electrics it is imperative not to run out of charge, for plug-ins there is always the ICE alternative.
We welcome a few more miles but it's no big deal if we have a few less.
Thanks
Nuccio

 

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Hi, everybody
If you have the time and the desire below is the full description of what I want to do.
The technical details will come later, for now good reading.

       Plug-In for Toyota Corolla 1.8 Hybrid.

There are many kits on the market to transform a pure Hybrid into a Plug-In, very interesting, but always a bit too invasive on the hybrid drive system. Changing the system immediately loses any manufacturer's warranty! So it is not recommended to mount them on a new car. Doing it on an outdated car may be more convenient, as long as the cost of the operation is compatible with the commercial value of the car.

Both the original Plug-In and the Kits allow 50/60 Km of electric autonomy, which in some cases are not enough to cover the entire journey made, but in many others are higher than the daily mileage, so you would not need all that autonomy in electric.

It could be enough to cover 10 - 20 Km, which allow you to reach even the farthest shopping centre, for example.

Given these premises, here are the features of our Kit :

 

1) Non-invasive

It is assembled and disassembled without changing anything about the car.

 2) Light and removable Battery

In case you need to take it home for recharging, or remove it to leave more space for luggage, or use it in another vehicle.

 3) It works automatically

But everything is under the control of a switch so it can be switched on and off from the driver's seat, i.e. it can be activated or deactivated as required.

 4) Safety controls

That they turn it off in case of overheating, malfunction or accident.

 5) Extends the life of the Battery Hybrid

Decreasing the discharge current and keeping its temperature lower.

 6) Costs little

Depending on the Battery capacity chosen, it ranges from 1000 to 1800 euros. Only 400 euros without batteries.

 7) You can use batteries already in the user's hands.

For example, the batteries of pedal-assisted bicycles or electric scooters and motorcycles. They must be removable and can be transferred from one vehicle to another as required. It is sufficient that the nominal voltage is at least 24 volts. It is not necessary that the two batteries are the equal of each other.

  

HOW IT WORKS

The system is based on two main components, in addition of course to the additional battery:

1) - The current sensor that detects how much current is coming out or going in from the hybrid battery.

2) - The Boost-Converter which is regulated by the current sensor, it takes energy from the additional battery and sends it on the cable coming out of the hybrid battery to the converter of the hybrid system, lightening the work of the hybrid battery which in this way has to supply only a part of the current to the electric motor.

 

CURRENT SENSOR

It is a Hall effect current sensor that physically does not touch anything in the existing system. It is a ring that goes around the cable that carries the current from the hybrid battery to the "electric motor" and that detects the current intensity in both directions, and consequently sends a signal, of proportional level, to the Boost-converter of the Kit .

BOOST CONVERTER

It is an electronic device capable of increasing the voltage supplied to it at the input. In our case it is connected between our additional battery and the cables from the hybrid battery. If it makes the idea better, we can say that it brings the energy of the additional battery to the same potential as the Hybrid battery.

It provides a fixed and appropriately calibrated output voltage based on the voltage of the hybrid battery. While, driven by the current sensor, it supplies the hybrid system with an amount of current proportional to the signal it receives.In fact, it lightens the workload of the hybrid battery, providing it with a fair portion of the current required by the inverter/electric motor unit.

During braking and slowing down, in the hybrid system the current flows from the motor/inverter to the hybrid battery, recharging it.

At this stage the kit remains inactive so as not to affect the balance between the components as designed by the vehicle manufacturer, and not to stress the hybrid battery.

 BATTERIES

The solution of using 2 batteries instead of 1 was chosen for the following reasons:

1) Weighing half , it is easier to take them out of the car and take them to other places to recharge them, or simply disassemble the kit before taking the car for servicing.  The weight of each one can vary from 8 kg to 12 kg.

2) Being removable, they must be fixed in an easily accessible place, so being smaller it is easier to find a place in the boot of the car.

3) Consequently also the electronics of the Boost-converter is smaller and warms up less.

4) It is easier to find batteries on the market or to build them yourself. In my case I already have two 1.5 Kw/h batteries that I can take out of my electric motorbike.

  

SUMMARIZING

The hybrid battery will discharge less and recharge equally, keeping a higher charge level to support the Solo-Electric mode for longer journeys.

For city journeys where there are many traffic lights, stops and roundabouts, you can set the Kit to provide low-current charging of the hybrid battery even during stop times. It is recommended to use a charging rate lower than 1C (i.e. a maximum current of 3.6 Ampere on the Corolla).

The boost-converter of the Kit is calibrated for an output voltage suitable for the type of car, so that it provides a maximum voltage that never exceeds 70/80 % of the maximum voltage of the hybrid battery (in the case of the new Toyota Corolla it could be 220 V max). This means that the kit is self-activated when the hybrid battery voltage drops below 70/80 % when driving.Similarly, it deactivates when, due to charging due to slowing, descending and braking, the voltage of the Hybrid battery rises above 70/80 %.

In order to stay within the tight limits of space, cost and weight, the Kit is designed to provide less than 4Kw of maximum power, which results in preferential use on low speed routes.  With highway speeds, the Kit still works with its own amount of energy, but you see less of an advantage.

Updated on 14/04/2020

 

Every comment will be appreciated.
We will then be able to evaluate point by point whether the 17 issues you raised earlier have been resolved.
Thank you
Nuccio

 

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Sounds very interesting. Though I have to admit that I dont understand much of what You're wrighting but... if theres a realistic way to increase the EV range on my Prius+ 2017 and my Prius plug in 2015, I will be very intrested

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Hello SHDisc
What you're saying worries me a little.
Maybe my English translation is poor ?
Or don't you understand those terms like: Hall effect current sensor, or Boost Converter, or the weird current flows ?

If it's for translation, I'll try to improve by getting help.
As far as technical terms are concerned, I'm sorry but at this stage of the project I have to go deeper and discuss also electronic circuits.

Have a nice day

Nuccio

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4 hours ago, nuccio said:

Hello SHDisc
What you're saying worries me a little.
Maybe my English translation is poor ?
Or don't you understand those terms like: Hall effect current sensor, or Boost Converter, or the weird current flows ?

If it's for translation, I'll try to improve by getting help.
As far as technical terms are concerned, I'm sorry but at this stage of the project I have to go deeper and discuss also electronic circuits.

Have a nice day

Nuccio

Ohh, My bad.

It's me who don't understand the tecnicalities/terms that well .

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Dear HSDish

here we come from different countries and speak different languages and it is nice that we also have different experiences and knowledge.

Your contribution is very precious.

Best regards

Nuccio

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Good morning, everybody,
I would need your precious help today.
To properly choose the current sensor to put in the Plug-in Kit it would be very useful for me to know the maximum current that the Corolla 1.8 Hybrid My19 Battery delivers.
I already have the instruments at home to measure it myself, but due to the current restrictions I can't use the car to do the necessary tests.

Please, do any of you have this important information?

Thank you very much.
Nuccio

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Hi, everybody
several days went by without anyone expressing an opinion on my project, but I didn't wait.
In addition to selecting the best components, I refined my design in terms of safety and functionality.
Below I enclose the updated schematic, where I have added two contactors that isolate the high voltage cables and connect them only when the current has to pass through.
So if you disconnect the K4 connector, the high voltage no longer reaches its contacts.

 

Schema-Kit-PlugIn_28april2020.jpg

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Hi Nuccio,

I'm not quite sure that I understand your intentions.  Is it your intention to modify your new car or build a new car?

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23 minutes ago, Stivino said:

Hi Nuccio,

I'm not quite sure that I understand your intentions.  Is it your intention to modify your new car or build a new car?

Good question Stephen, I’m puzzled as well after reading the earlier posts, I’ve wondered why keep the discussion going, an earlier post pointing out absolutely no intention of laying a spanner on the brand new Corolla, and the financial implications of building a new car. Interesting indeed?

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1 hour ago, Stivino said:

Hi Nuccio,

I'm not quite sure that I understand your intentions.  Is it your intention to modify your new car or build a new car?

Hi Stivino
Yes, I'm complicating something very simple. I like my Corolla and I don't want to change it, but I want to get more from her.
Maybe I've written too much to describe what I want to do, so it seems very complicated. 
Actually this is like when we use a Power-bank to make our cell phone Battery last longer.
We don't modify anything on the phone but we increase its performance a lot.

Thank you for your comment.
Nuccio

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As I understand it, this is a new 1800 petrol hybrid and you want to increase the range of the Battery by the addition of another Battery without making any major modification to the car?

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I called it Plugin because it allows more autonomy in electrical almost like the Hybrid Plugins.
But if we want to use better known terms and refer to the mobile phone, we can call it more properly "Power-bank".

When I'm out of the house and suddenly I realize that the Battery of my phone is leaving me, I take the power-bank out of my pocket and connect it to the phone to use it until I get home.
I haven't changed anything on the phone, which will continue to work as if nothing had happened. I just backed up its Battery.
This is what I want to do to my car.

In my project the operation of connecting the "power-bank" is automatic, and only happens when the hybrid Battery has to supply power.

Nothing affects the operation of the car.
Thank you
Nuccio

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What size is your power bank?

What type of construction will it be?

Will it mean that you will have to remove something, a seat for instance, to accomodate it?

How heavy is it?

Where will you store it when it is in use?

Where will it get its power from?

I'm just curious.

Stephen

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4 hours ago, nuccio said:

Hi Stivino
Yes, I'm complicating something very simple. I like my Corolla and I don't want to change it, but I want to get more from her.
Maybe I've written too much to describe what I want to do, so it seems very complicated. 
Actually this is like when we use a Power-bank to make our cell phone battery last longer.
We don't modify anything on the phone but we increase its performance a lot.

Thank you for your comment.
Nuccio

Much clearer now Nuccio, what your thoughts are about, thanks.

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Hi Stivino

I will gladly answer your questions.

What size is your power bank? 

What type of construction will it be?

How heavy is it?

These are two boxes of 240 x 210 x 13.5 Cm.
and weighing 13 Kg each.

Each of them contains 18 Li-Poly cells 22.5 Ah , in 9s 2p configuration.

So these are nominal 33V 45Ah Battery packs that deliver 110A continuous and 200A peak on my electric bike.
Here they are mounted on my electric prototype:
 

Will it mean that you will have to remove something, a seat for instance, to accomodate it?

Where will you store it when it is in use?

My system consists of a fixed part which is the Boost-Converter (the electronics that regulates voltage and current) and a moving part which are the two batteries.
The Boost-converter will be put inside the spare wheel compartment.
The two batteries will be placed in the trunk of the car like two small suitcases. Obviously they will be rigidly fixed with a belt or something else.

Where will it get its power from?

The two batteries must be easily removable from the trunk as if they were two simple suitcases (that's why they are small and weigh relatively little).
I can take them into the house to recharge them at night, or during the day I can leave them at my son's house which has a photovoltaic roof.

Greetings

Nuccio

Sling-shot-2.jpg

Sling-battery.jpg

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I have more questions I'm afraid;

Is this your field of engineering or just a hobby?

Is that bike fully electric?

Did you build it yourself?

Stephen

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Yes, the bike is completely electric. It's the first of four prototypes I built just as a hobby.
I graduated in electronics and worked for many years in electronics companies.
For more information then see my old blog that I link to:

http://electricmotorcicles.blogspot.com/

Greetings

Nuccio

 

 

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Well done you, very interesting.

I imagine that with your background, you'll have a complete understanding of the ins and outs of it.

What's your next project going to be?

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13 hours ago, Stivino said:

What's your next project going to be?

Hi Stephen

With this project I'll have it for several months.
I have an old electric motorcycle project that I suspended because it was too expensive, but I don't have any new ones.

Greetings

Nuccio

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