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Plug in hybrid?


iand12
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It's only in the last couple of years that I've been won over to hybrid vehicles and am still learning. I do however have a question to all you knowledgeable people out there. What are the advantages, if any, of having a 'plug in' hybrid rather than the type that charge themselves? As I see it, if you own a plug in hybrid you have the cost of installation of a charging point and then once the batteries are flat you have the cost of dragging around dead weight. With a self charger at least the batteries are constantly being used rather than dragging around dead weight.

I'd welcome any input on this subject from you guys please. In my opinion an all electric vehicle is out of the question at present because of the all round cost and lack of range, however this may change if they get better. So the only other options are plug in, or self charging.

Thank you all for your input, which I feel sure will be forthcoming.

 

Ian🤗 

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First short post will be...

A Plug In will continue as a standard (as Your Prius Plus) hybrid when the EV range is consumed.

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Hi,

Plugs in just gives You  a range of some miles 15-30 etc on pure electric like full ev car, that’s all the rest is same as normal hybrid, even in the self charging hybrid you still drag Battery weight but smaller, and so in plug in hybrid you still use the traction Battery even you out of ev range. Those plug in cars are exclusively suitable for people that have short commuting journeys that they can do on pure electric, so savings will be noticeable and pollution reduced., for anyone else self charging is the better option. My average daily drive is 200+ miles and plug in hybrid or full electric will not be suitable, but for someone who travels 20 miles to work and back and then 200 miles week end trip often plug in will be great. 

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Plugins have much larger batteries, so where a normal Prius will charge it's Battery completely when travelling for, say, a mile downhill, the rest of that downhill trip only produces energy that is lost to heat (e.g. your brakes). But a plugin will keep recharging for 5 miles of downhill. Another way to look at it is you can recover a greater quantity of energy.

Then there's the fact electricity is cheaper than petrol. So you can charge a plugin and travel around 30 miles on it without using a drop. For most people in most circumstances that's more than enough (trip to work, shops, home). So some people could own a plugin hybrid and fuel it only once or twice a year.

So, yes, it's more weight, but it's more than offset by the fact you can "fuel" it more cheaply with electricity, and can recover more of otherwise lost energy during regen.

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As Tony says, it depends greatly on your use patterns.

The first 'official' Plug-in Hybrid was the Prius PHEV launched on the UK in 2012.  Depending on average temperature and usage patterns, it could only do 8-13 miles on pure EV (winter/summer), but after that it ran like a normal Prius.  More recent PHEVs like the 2nd Gen Prius plug-in and Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV can do 30 ish miles on EV, a few can do even more.  The forthcoming RAV4 PHEV is said to do almost 40 miles EV, and AFAIK will be the only Plug-in Hybrid with a spare wheel.

Since I semi retired at the beginning of 2011 and fully in 2014 even the first plug-in Prius would have suited me down to the ground, just plugging into an ordinary 3-pin socket overnight on off-peak electricity would fill it, so no need for a fast charger.  Topping up during the day between local trips would mean for 27-28 days a month I'd use almost no petrol, and I could do the longer trips I do once or twice a month with no worries.  The only reason I didn't get one was the lack of spare wheel, something I'm still not ready to compromise on.

Early PHEVs needed to run the engine to heat the cabin when cold, but newer ones have a heat pump system that runs off the Battery fairly efficiently.

People I've known who've had Plug-in Prius say the mpg when doing long trips in Hybrid only mode is actually still slightly better than an ordinary Prius, which has been suggested is due to the charge/discharge efficiency being of the PHEV's LiON Battery being better than that of the NiMH in the standard Prius (although your Prius Plus with have LiON).

Some people have managed to get new or second hand Prius PHEVs as a very good price, so there hasn't been a big issue of value for money, but many a full priced PHEV will never repay the extra cost in fuel savings.

This may be of some interest too: 

 

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Hi Guys

Thank you for all the input. I normally do around 30000 miles a year so I don't really think a plug in would repay in mileage. I'm sure that in future it will all become more efficient and then I shall reconsider my options. My new Prius plus is doing great mileage, and I must say it's more comfortable than my C-HR was. I just wish I had purchased a Toyota before because I'm as impressed as hell with both the vehicles and service I've been getting. It also seems that Toyota owners are like the cars, reliable and always ready to help.

Thanks again.

 

Ian☺️

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2 hours ago, altocumulus said:

The plugin is great!

It’s the best looking Prius 👍

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40 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

It’s the best looking Prius 👍

Especially in Green.....

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1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

It’s the best looking Prius 👍

 

52 minutes ago, altocumulus said:

Especially in Green....

SWMBO tells me that Spirited Aqua is best. Is that green or blue?

Whatever, it is unsafe to argue. 🤕🤕

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On 4/12/2020 at 12:27 PM, Ancient Nerd said:

SWMBO tells me that Spirited Aqua is best. Is that green or blue?

Whatever, it is unsafe to argue. 🤕🤕

Greeny-blue: Reminds us of the beaches on Harris.....

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18 hours ago, iand12 said:

As I see it, if you own a plug in hybrid you have the cost of installation of a charging point and then once the batteries are flat you have the cost of dragging around dead weight.

No charging point is required - a 3-pin is more than adequate. There is also no 'cost' to the additional weight, although that is a logical assumption to make - the Prius PHV actually appears to return better mpg than the Prius ordinaire even without charging from the wall.

The PHV has no spare wheel option, poor boot space and (pre-facelift) only four seats. Other than that, it's pretty much all upside compared to the standard car - more kit, more soundproofing, more entertainment from fiddling with settings, more fun from driving in EV mode (the joy of silent acceleration hasn't worn off for me yet) and, assuming you are able to charge at home, considerably better running costs. It's less wilfully ugly than the original Gen 4 but less disappointingly anodyne than the facelift. And it has a carbon fibre tailgate, which obviously seals the deal. Maybe those positives aren't worth the difference in purchase price new but when you can get a PHV for virtually the same money as a standard car on the used market, it's a bit of a no-brainer unless the spare wheel or space issues are dealbreakers.

Essentially, you get all the joys of the wonderful standard Toyota HSD system, plus the extra joy of more miles in EV mode. What's not to like?

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

It’s the best looking Prius 👍

True, but still damning by faint praise.
🙈

2 hours ago, altocumulus said:

Especially in Green.....

Don't you start! 😁🤢

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Aye - it might be heavier with the extra Battery, but it still provides into the 80's dragging it along in hv mode! (At least that's what I remember not having been allowed out for 6 weeks!)

I have the Chargemaster connection, the slower one (All the Prius can take, anyway). 3-pin's a useful backup if you can reach from the hotel bedroom window :crazy:

(Depressingly it doesn't seem worth changing from winter to summer wheels; by time shielding has finished we'll have snow on the ground again....)

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Plug in hybrids are normal hybrids (that charge themselves) with the added benefit of you being able to charge them from the mains or an EV charge point if there is one handy. Plugging in is optional not compulsory.

You don't need to install a charging point (although there are special offers where you can get one installed free).  If you have a handy 3 pin socket you can use that. 

Don't worry about dragging around dead weight. The HV Battery is always in use. Having a larger capacity HV Battery than a normal hybrid is a plus because it can accept more 'self charging'.  As a result plugin hybrid versions can get better mpg than the normal hybrid versions even without plugging them in.

 

 

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Since You got a Prius Plus and if You like it’s height (easy to enter/exit) ,comfort, flexibility and space and that’s Your criteria for a (Plug In) car , maybe You should take a look at the new Toyota RAV 4 PHEV (AWD and heatpump etc). Think they will be in EU Toyota dealers showrooms in August 2020, but orderable now. Quite costly though.

We got a Prius plus 2017 that we really like a lot and mostly use for transporting family and for (mostly) longer trips. Then we got a Prius PHEV 2015 that we use mostley for one or two persons transport and (mostley) for shorter trips, that we like to, and it pairs (feels/looks quite familiar) with our Prius Plus 2017. But... would love longer range in pure EV mode .

Cut from other topic –

Our Prius 2015 Plug In Gen 1 has 4.4 kWh Battery and manage to be driven about 15 km in just pure Ev mode ( no ICE kicking in) in this Swedish winter (average about 2-7 C warm degrees) and about 20 km in our summer (average about 20-25 C degrees).

One thing with our gen 1 is that it has't any ev heatpump (prius gen 2 2017-19 got an ev heat pump) so the ICE will kick in from start (to warm up the car) and then in about each 1.5-2 km until you reach about 8 km then (when warm) it will run on EV. This isn't ideal for short trips

 

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I can't help wondering if the virus situation will delay the launch of the RAV4 PHEV...

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Just now, PeteB said:

I can't help wondering if the virus situation will delay the launch of the RAV4 PHEV...

I heard from my local dealer that Japan production is "still going strong" and he expect to get their demo in agust

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RAV4 phev is what we've been waiting for. However we changed from a RAV4 Hybrid to the Prius phv because the 2018 RAV4 Hybrid was more expensive (ignoring the ugly grill!).

I doubt the RAV4 phv will be a price worth paying - especially if we can't get out to enjoy it 😄

 

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20 hours ago, altocumulus said:

RAV4 phev is what we've been waiting for. However we changed from a RAV4 Hybrid to the Prius phv because the 2018 RAV4 Hybrid was more expensive (ignoring the ugly grill!).

I doubt the RAV4 phv will be a price worth paying - especially if we can't get out to enjoy it 😄

Agree that there's a lot to think about/consider    but... If you need more space and higher enter/exit and more boot space than Prius Gen 2 PHEV there is no Toyota PHEV alternative than the new Rav 4.

(possibly Prius Gen 1 PHEV which is a bit higher and got a bit spacier boot than Gen 2)

Rav 4 2018 was a bit less fuel efficent than Rav 4 2019 to (and probably less than RAV 4 PHEV)

I think the new RAV4 PHEV , despite a quite high price, still is quite price worthy compared to some other equal competitors / brands

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/18/2020 at 5:15 PM, johalareewi said:

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV?

Think new Outlander PHEV are a bit less expensive than new RAV 4 PHEV will be but it seems like RAV4 will have a bit longer EV range (and possibly more efficent ICE to)

One advantage (IMO)with Outlander is that there's already some used cars out there.

but . . . (again) Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV are not (precisely) a Toyota 🙂

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Although I generally have no time for What Car - possibly the worst car magazine on the market - I get emails from them which I must have inadvertently signed up for and have not bothered to unsubscribe from. Having little to fill my time during the lockdown, I had a browse through a recent email which had a link to a video (I think it was produced at the end of March, so quite recent): “2020 best plug-in hybrids (and the ones to avoid)”. Needless to say, I knew from the outset that the Prius plug-in would be one to avoid!

The top 10 best plug-ins were of course, with the exception of 2 Volvos and a Hyundai, all German. The list included at number 9 a Mercedes priced at £97,570 😂. What planet do these teenage scribblers live on?

They rather like the Audi Q5 and  managed to achieve 18 miles in EV mode - great! They were also impressed with the VW Passat which achieved 65mpg overall and a whopping 40mpg on hybrid only. Their biggest criticism of plug-ins is that when the Battery goes flat on plug-ins the mpg falls off a cliff  - wrong, I regularly get in excess of 80mpg when the Battery is ‘flat’.

When it comes to the Prius, they find it “not particularly inspiring” and take the p*ss out of the optional solar panel. They consider them expensive (not when you buy a demo as I did for no more than a standard Prius; and certainly less than £97,570!) and don’t like the noisy engine - wrong again; it’s whisper quiet and could only be considered noisy if it’s driven totally inappropriately in Power mode by some 20-something with their right foot nailed to the floor).

They fail to take into account Toyotas huge advantage in having mastered the technology of hybrids over a long period, unlike e.g Mercedes who have only come to the party because they need to “greenwash” their marketing to survive and whose implementation of of hybrid drive is inept. I have a friend who for some strange reason beyond my comprehension will only buy Mercedes. He was keen to buy a C Class hybrid which start at about £45,000. Even the magazines warn that you’ll struggle to get 40 mpg overall. My friend borrowed one for a test and got nowhere near 40. On a short dog walking journey he would sometimes struggle to get 10mpg in EV mode! The deal breaker for him was the dreadful jerky transition from EV to ICE. Mercedes simply have not got the expertise or experience to implement the technology.

Anyway, the qualities of the Prius PHV will just have to remain a well kept secret.

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Couldn’t agree more👍 The only hybrid that makes sense buying at the moment is Toyota Lexus, the German ones are full stop, rather get a diesel from them. The mentioned merc c is a joke, it’s got a starter that’s kicks in to turn the ice, sounds stupidly funny, for efficiency don’t even want to talk, even their sellers would recommend to you diesel if you are a mileage maker. Vw hybrids a also not right using a dsg box, if Toyota make these move away from what they have to offer now with their drive trains people would stop buying hybrids for sure. Full ev or small petrol manual car is the only way to go if you are not happy with Toyota hybrids., ops only my personal opinion. No offence to anyone. ✌️
Regards 

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For some reason, most of the British motoring press see CVT as some sort of insult to humanity. If they got over this irrational hatred, they might be less dismissive of the Toyota hybrids.

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