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14 hours ago, Cyker said:

Just because they use the Toyota name doesn't mean anything - Sadly the onus is on the customer to find the good ones!

Remember that dealers are just franchises, they are not actually part of Toyota - and like any franchise operation there are the very good, the good, the poor, the bad and the awful.

IMHO Toyota do a better job than most car manufacturers/importers at weeding out the awful and the bad but some are bound to escape 'through the net'.

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Yeah I'm well aware of that; You'd just think they'd not want their name tarnished so much by letting these idiots use it.

I have to say, in terms of customer service at least (Not so much mechanical...), the french dealers seem to be far better at it. They even seem to have a little handover ceremony most of the time, whereas my Toyota experience has been more like Sign all this here's the card machine pay here're your keys car's in bay 9 bye. Oh, and please give me a 10 if you get a survey.

It's a damned good thing I do my own research and had already test driven one elsewhere, otherwise I'd probably have been stuck in the car park for 10 minutes trying to figure out how to start the car :laugh:

This is one area the americans seem to always score well at - Speaking to friends in the USA, their dealer experiences seem so much better; They may get ripped off horribly, but at least the customer service experience is there!

As you say tho' it's not all of them; I just need to find one of the good ones clearly, but I have a bad feeling it won't be any of the London ones...!

 

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41 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I have to say, in terms of customer service at least (Not so much mechanical...), the french dealers seem to be far better at it. They even seem to have a little handover ceremony most of the time, whereas my Toyota experience has been more like Sign all this here's the card machine pay here're your keys car's in bay 9 bye. Oh, and please give me a 10 if you get a survey.

You definitely seem to have found a bad one - my experience of dealers is almost the opposite.

When I bought my C1 (used) in 2010 the Citroen dealer in Fareham didn't even know which of the C1's on his forecourt has AC - I had to do the legwork and look for the AC switch! Then when I brought it in for it's first service they messed up respraying the rear bumper (dust particles in the paint) and told be the headlamp bulbs that they had fitted when I bought the car weren't suitable and wanted to charge me for new ones! I never went back there.... And when the rear window recall came in I used the Citroen dealer in Barnstaple (who have now lost the franchise) and they made me feel like something the cat had brought it.

On the other hand the Toyota dealers in both Trowbridge and Barnstaple have been excellent at arranging test drives that were Covid safe. I bought from the Barnstaple dealer and the whole experience was, I would say, better than when I spent 5 times as much on an Audi a few years ago. The handover was inside and made me feel very special (which I didn't expect from buying an Aygo), the explanation was detailed and all my questions were answered fully - and I had a follow-up call a few days later.

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1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Sign all this here's the card machine pay here're your keys car's in bay 9 bye. Oh, and please give me a 10 if you get a survey.

When I bought my Auris I was actually coached on the correct answers to give... can you believe that. I was even told what to say, for example something like (can't remember exact words now) if I was asked 'are you extremely satisfied... or are you completely satisfied... what would you say. I said well I'm extremely satisfied only to be told no, no, no, you must say completely satisfied. They would mark us down on that. It is so important you get the answers right.

I wasn't impressed.

Same with oils. The service manager had impressed how special the then 0-20 oil was, why the service plan made good economic sense given the cost of the oils etc and then I find 5W30 on paperwork. When I asked one time what was used I was told 5-30 semi synthetic.

I do genuinely wonder how much of this has contributed to the oil burning on these engines. I'm putting in around £2.50 worth of oil a week based on around £32 for a 5L can. Given it uses so much I wonder if it is now worth still using premium oil, maybe I should just use whatever is on offer. 

 

 

  

 

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they run fine on 10/40...should help alot on the use 

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The worst dealer experience i have had is with Nissan and the slime ball Toyota sales guy, i have a deep miss trust of dealers and especially service departments

 

I do not buy French, i have worked on a fair few, the electrics are merde, electrical components are designed and built by the accountants

TBH PSA and Renault have crept into most brands i will not buy another Vauxhall what is now Peugeot, Nissan is mainly Renault, and it shows - Toyota seem to becoming a premium brand as prices are creeping up

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On 6/25/2021 at 5:51 PM, Roy124 said:

Waz, most dealers (or their service department) probably use a bulk oil supply and it would not be worth their while to cheat.  Look what might happen if they were caught 🙂

 

Cheat is too strong a word; more like a mistake/error. I am going to check my service papers to make sure the correct oil is going in. But then again that does not guarantee the correct one went in as I assume they have a few different oil batches/types around for the various different engines in the TOYOTA range. I keep an eye out on the MPG and it is around 64 MPG which seems OK. 

 

On 6/25/2021 at 5:55 PM, Cyker said:

Don't worry, it's only the Aygo X-Prologue that is going to be the ridiculous 1-point-nothing FWD SUV :laugh:

You are right to not trust the dealer 100% - Way back when Toyota started selling cars that needed 0w20, we caught a lot of the dealers continuing to use 5w30, which had a noticeable effect on the fuel economy of the then-new Mk3 Prius.

 

I have a feeling a similar thing will happen with my new Yaris - When I asked one of my local dealers how much some 0w8 was, the reply I got was "Don't you mean 0w20? We don't sell 0w8..."

The trick is to find a good dealer - There are some great dealers, but also some really awful ones. Just because they use the Toyota name doesn't mean anything - Sadly the onus is on the customer to find the good ones! It's one of the reasons I really miss the dealer review section this site used to have!

 

My dealer put the plastic wheel trims (silver ones) on wrong??? Where there is a gap for the tyre air pressure nozzle to fit through they missed it completely. Now the tyre pressure nozzle bends against the silver plastic wheel trim whilst sticking out. Was a silly error and it worries me that it could cause a tyre deflation through pressure/stress. It has cut slightly into the tyre air pressure nozzle rubber.

It is things like this that make you wonder whether they are paying any attention at all...

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Ha, that's pretty bad :laugh:

I can top it tho' - When I had the 15's fitted, they swapped over the TPMS sensors, and the service guy told me that the TPMS warning light was on but that was normal and I just had to drive around for a bit and it would re-sync the sensors.

Fair enough I thought, as it does say that in the manual.

Drove home, checked the pressures, as I always like to inflate them to the high-speed pressures (Better mpg!), and found both left-side tyres had less than 1.5 bar/~20PSI of pressure in them! (In hindsight, I should have clocked that they shouldn't need re-sync'ing as they were the same sensors!)

It was lucky I went home instead of driving around more to try and make the light go off!!

I try to be understanding with minor mistakes, esp. as I know they're overworked atm trying to clear the backlog as everyone is trying to get overdue services etc. done, but that one really stretches my understanding!

Wrote to them about it but haven't received a reply, or acknowledgement, never mind an apology! Hoping that they're just busy and haven't gotten to my e-mail yet, but TBH not really expecting anything as that would imply responsibility and, as stated in previous posts, they seem more keen on covering themselves than doing the right thing...

 

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A few years ago Lexus dealers advertised a free "health check" for older Lexus cars.

I thought ok good idea , although realising it was a sales promotion to get work for the service department, maybe it will pick up some useful information.

They reported that all 4 brake discs and pads needed immediate replacement as they were dangerous ,and all 4 tyres needed replacing.

The funny thing was that 3 days previously the car had passed its MOT with no advisories at a local trusted MOT station ,as indeed it did with the same result for the following 2 years.

I could be wrong , but the only conclusion that made sense to me was that a Lexus main dealer were dishonest at worst and mistaken or incompetent at best.

The estimate to fix what they said needed doing urgently was around £1500 if I remember right.

They were very polite though and gave me a nice coffee.

🤑

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10 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

The funny thing was that 3 days previously the car had passed its MOT with no advisories at a local trusted MOT station ,as indeed it did with the same result for the following 2 years.

I could be wrong , but the only conclusion that made sense to me was that a Lexus main dealer were dishonest at worst and mistaken or incompetent at best.

I've had exactly the same experience at Audi dealers (one even told me the cambelt needed replacing and was very embarrassed when I reminded them that it had cam chains), Skoda dealers and Citroen dealers.

It seems this is a 'dealer thing' and definitely not specific to Toyota/Lexus dealers.

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Yes petrol Dave it is a shame about so many dealers being the way they are , I cannot fault the build quality of Toyota or Lexus which shows still on the older cars I tend to buy.

The only new car I ever bought was in 1989 a Citroen ax deisel (little money and big miles at the time) the car was fine 80,000 miles in 4 years .

But the service department managed to damage the bonnet and cover every surface used by the driver in black grease , it took the promise of legal action to replace the bonnet and carpets.

I serviced it myself after that and had to forgoe the warranty.

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On 6/28/2021 at 10:44 PM, Cyker said:

Ha, that's pretty bad :laugh:

I can top it tho' - When I had the 15's fitted, they swapped over the TPMS sensors, and the service guy told me that the TPMS warning light was on but that was normal and I just had to drive around for a bit and it would re-sync the sensors.

Fair enough I thought, as it does say that in the manual.

Drove home, checked the pressures, as I always like to inflate them to the high-speed pressures (Better mpg!), and found both left-side tyres had less than 1.5 bar/~20PSI of pressure in them! (In hindsight, I should have clocked that they shouldn't need re-sync'ing as they were the same sensors!)

It was lucky I went home instead of driving around more to try and make the light go off!!

I try to be understanding with minor mistakes, esp. as I know they're overworked atm trying to clear the backlog as everyone is trying to get overdue services etc. done, but that one really stretches my understanding!

Wrote to them about it but haven't received a reply, or acknowledgement, never mind an apology! Hoping that they're just busy and haven't gotten to my e-mail yet, but TBH not really expecting anything as that would imply responsibility and, as stated in previous posts, they seem more keen on covering themselves than doing the right thing...

 

This is really interesting because the other day I decided to check my right front tyre and it was showing as 25PSI when it should be 33PSI. Considering I had done very little mileage from when it was 'supposed' to be checked at the local dealer I do wonder whether it was checked at all. The fact that they were supposed to be checking the tyre pressures and missed the mis-aligned plastic wheel trim? Surely if they were checking the tyre pressures they would have seen the wheel trim mis-aligned and gone to the small effort of aligning it properly. Makes me wonder...

Also with 25 PSI I do wonder why the Tyre Pressure Monitoring system did not go off. It looks like it needs re-setting to the correct level - another thing I left to my dealer. Obviously, with these unacceptable health and safety breaches I will not be trusting them going forward and will do it all myself. 

It is also interesting you talk about the email. I sent one a few days ago. No reply...

Rang today was told it did not get through. How? Hotmail would show me an error. Again like you said maybe not acknowledging it to cover themselves, which again tells you everything you need to know.

Big thumbs down.

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Regarding tyre pressure. Maybe the dealer did check the tyre pressures and when the car was given back to you it was at the correct pressures. Then on the journey home, or some other journey since leaving the dealer, you picked up a means of air escaping. It would appear you have no evidence to suggest the dealer had not checked tyre pressures, so that puts you on dodgy ground in accusing the dealer. In fact accusing someone of being neglectful, especially as something as important as a safety issue, when they haven’t been neglectful could put you into trouble.
Did you know it is the car users responsibility to ensure the car is roadworthy at all times? How often do you check your tyres pressures? 8 psi difference is a lot. You would physically see the car tyre looking different to when it was last set at 33 psi. Did you mention to the dealer that one of the tyres looked deflated can you please check it out. If you had, and it still looked deflated when they handed the car back to you (at their premises) you could have justifiably said the dealer was neglectful, and told them so.         
What have you done since you found the tyre had low pressure, presume set it at the right pressure. Have you checked as to WHY the pressure was low? Have you found a source of air leak? Has the air leak been fixed?                
I am sorry if I seem a bit hard on you, but there again I not sorry. It is far from clear the dealer is neglectful from what you said in your post. What you have said could affect people’s lively hood. If a dealer gets poor reviews, others may not use that dealer. If the reviews are justifiable then fair enough, but if poor review cannot be substantiated and a business is affected badly, maybe a downturn in business, that may lead to a service person losing his/her job and means of supporting a family.

I not even going onto the TPMS because it’s tied up with the above. 

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Remember that on the Aygo (unlike the Yaris mentioned in several posts above) there are NO tyre pressure sensors, the TPMS is achieved using trick software that analyses the signals from the ABS wheel speed sensors - so it cannot tell if when the system is reset (using the button in the glovebox) that the tyre pressures are not correct. So it is VERY important that before the reset button is pressed the tyre pressures are checked.

This type of TPMS is called indirect and is used by many car manufacturers - it's cheaper than pressure/temperature sensors in every wheel plus a receiver on the car - and still complies with their legal requirements.

@Catlover whether you can see a difference in the tyre when the pressure is low is dependent on the tyre profile - I previously owned a car with a direct TPMS and 40 profile tyres, when the TPMS warned of pressure 10psi low I could see no difference in that tyre. Why? Because such low profile tyres have very stiff sidewalls. This doesn't apply to the OE tyre sizes fitted to the Aygo though - but just FYI.

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Thanks Dave. I had took into account it was an Aygo and likely not low profile tyres, but you had a good point.             
Doesn’t take away the responsibility of the user to check the car is road legal before a journey. How many vehicles do you see with a bulb gone. “but officer it was ok when I checked it”, “and when would that be”.  🙈 

And the point you made Dave, about types of TPMS was interesting, I didn’t know that.

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9 hours ago, Catlover said:

Regarding tyre pressure. Maybe the dealer did check the tyre pressures and when the car was given back to you it was at the correct pressures. Then on the journey home, or some other journey since leaving the dealer, you picked up a means of air escaping. It would appear you have no evidence to suggest the dealer had not checked tyre pressures, so that puts you on dodgy ground in accusing the dealer. In fact accusing someone of being neglectful, especially as something as important as a safety issue, when they haven’t been neglectful could put you into trouble.
Did you know it is the car users responsibility to ensure the car is roadworthy at all times? How often do you check your tyres pressures? 8 psi difference is a lot. You would physically see the car tyre looking different to when it was last set at 33 psi. Did you mention to the dealer that one of the tyres looked deflated can you please check it out. If you had, and it still looked deflated when they handed the car back to you (at their premises) you could have justifiably said the dealer was neglectful, and told them so.         
What have you done since you found the tyre had low pressure, presume set it at the right pressure. Have you checked as to WHY the pressure was low? Have you found a source of air leak? Has the air leak been fixed?                
I am sorry if I seem a bit hard on you, but there again I not sorry. It is far from clear the dealer is neglectful from what you said in your post. What you have said could affect people’s lively hood. If a dealer gets poor reviews, others may not use that dealer. If the reviews are justifiable then fair enough, but if poor review cannot be substantiated and a business is affected badly, maybe a downturn in business, that may lead to a service person losing his/her job and means of supporting a family.

I not even going onto the TPMS because it’s tied up with the above. 

Thanks for your detailed response.

Regarding the accusations I have not named any dealer and have not even raised this issue with them. I only raised the plastic wheel trim air pressure nozzle issue with them. If I raised the tyre inflation pressure matter I know they would simply go to the default position of 'denial' due to there training on 'legal matters'. I know because this is how business, health, council, military etc operate. Just deny as long as you can until other guy gets tired, dies or runs out of money (or commits' suicide). I have experience in all these sectors of people 'apparently' trying to the right thing...

Those are just my experiences and sorry if it came across as accusing. I just make sure not to trust people, and even then, not trust them some more. That's what life does to you. I have had my bad dealings with this dealer to know that they are not taken due care and attention. For instance when I did have the plastic wheel trims put on they were not only not re-aligned properly, they were also left for me to click into place...

Also after the MOT they also put way way to much grease on certain components and it is now on the body work. I could just go on and on. So how after these experiences do you expect me to have any confidence whether they are doing 'sound' work on other aspects of the car? If the basics cannot be done right then all bets are off. 

My front tires always looked the same. Slightly under inflated. When I put them to the correct pressure the look did 'slightly' change although it is difficult here to know if one's mind is playing tricks. Ground level and surface makes a difference I think. For sure I have asked them so many times to check my tyre pressures and not once did it change the slightly under-inflated look; and that is big sign/clue. No tyre pressure monitor light ever came on but I will be re-setting this because I have the feeling it was never set right.

I will take care of everything myself - best way. To be honest I never get an honest answer out of the dealers anyway and one person often contradicts another so what is the point asking their advice? It is waste of time and I am not going to argue with people who cannot follow the policies and recommendations to the letter. 

8 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

Remember that on the Aygo (unlike the Yaris mentioned in several posts above) there are NO tyre pressure sensors, the TPMS is achieved using trick software that analyses the signals from the ABS wheel speed sensors - so it cannot tell if when the system is reset (using the button in the glovebox) that the tyre pressures are not correct. So it is VERY important that before the reset button is pressed the tyre pressures are checked.

This type of TPMS is called indirect and is used by many car manufacturers - it's cheaper than pressure/temperature sensors in every wheel plus a receiver on the car - and still complies with their legal requirements.

@Catlover whether you can see a difference in the tyre when the pressure is low is dependent on the tyre profile - I previously owned a car with a direct TPMS and 40 profile tyres, when the TPMS warned of pressure 10psi low I could see no difference in that tyre. Why? Because such low profile tyres have very stiff sidewalls. This doesn't apply to the OE tyre sizes fitted to the Aygo though - but just FYI.

Yes I know this as I went over and over it. Once you set the right tyre pressures you can re-set the Tyre Pressure Monitoring System. It then understands those recently set new pressures are the default benchmark correct level. It is simple and a good way to keep on top of things - not hard. This type of sensor also has less maintenance costs and perhaps also errors especially when things are taken off and then put back on i.e. replacing/servicing.

The issue with me is I left it a few times to the dealer and they told that it was not necessary to re-set the Tyre Pressure Monitoring System when adjusting tyre pressures. But the TOYOTA blog stated differently, that is, it should be re-set every-time one changes the tyre pressures to the optimum level. 

The best way around this is to set your tyre pressures yourself to the correct level and each time, in my opinion, re-set the Tyre Pressure Monitoring system. That is what the TOYOTA blog stated. But I am still unsure as to why it has to be done each time as indicated by the TOYOTA blog. Surely you can set the Tyre Pressure Monitoring System to the correct level and then at least for 4 months adjust tyre pressures to the correct level without it affecting the original benchmark set? Hmmm...

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It's probably not a fault with the Aygo's TPMS - The 'indirect' TPMS is not very accurate.

It works by the car comparing wheel rotation; If it notices one wheel is spinning more than the others it will light up the TPMS warning light - The idea is that a deflated tyre is 'smaller' - has a smaller diameter - than a fully inflated tyre, but generally you need to get down to 10-15 PSI before that even *starts* to manifest itself unless you have a load of people/weight in the car.

I once was driving around with a rear tyre at 21PSI for at least a month on my first Mk1 D4D and you couldn't tell by looking at it! It didn't feel significantly squishier, or look like it was flatter or bulging out at the bottom more than any of the others - Just goes to show you can't tell just by looking or kicking the tyre!

That's partly why I used to check my tyre pressures religiously every weekend; Must admit I have slacked off a lot lately, ever since I found the TPMS status display on my Mk4 :laugh:

 

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On 7/1/2021 at 9:10 PM, Cyker said:

It's probably not a fault with the Aygo's TPMS - The 'indirect' TPMS is not very accurate.

It works by the car comparing wheel rotation; If it notices one wheel is spinning more than the others it will light up the TPMS warning light - The idea is that a deflated tyre is 'smaller' - has a smaller diameter - than a fully inflated tyre, but generally you need to get down to 10-15 PSI before that even *starts* to manifest itself unless you have a load of people/weight in the car.

I once was driving around with a rear tyre at 21PSI for at least a month on my first Mk1 D4D and you couldn't tell by looking at it! It didn't feel significantly squishier, or look like it was flatter or bulging out at the bottom more than any of the others - Just goes to show you can't tell just by looking or kicking the tyre!

That's partly why I used to check my tyre pressures religiously every weekend; Must admit I have slacked off a lot lately, ever since I found the TPMS status display on my Mk4 :laugh:

 

Thanks for this very useful advice - I will try my best to remember this. Could be life saving. 10-15 PSI allowable difference is too much for me to consider safe. 

Regarding your TMPS system, not sure if you know, make sure sensor batteries are working and that tyre air pressure nozzles are handled with care. Heard that these types of more advanced TMPS systems need regular maintenance and a soft touch. Also heard of some synching issues. This was on the official TOYOTA blog. I would still rather have the more advanced sensor like you have - but Aygo was the maximum I could afford.

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From what I've read, tyre pressure monitoring systems should detect a 20-25% difference in pressure. So for the Aygo (tyre pressure of 33psi) that represents a loss of between 6.6psi to 8.2psi when the TPMS warning light should illuminate.

TPMS is just a warning system and doesn't replace regular checking of tyres - not only pressures but also condition (ie presence of any cuts, cracking, uneven wear, etc).

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