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Guido Brunetti

Brand new RAV4 Excel - main LCD failure

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We’ve only just taken delivery a week ago of a new RAV4 Excel to replace our Volvo XC60. Whilst driving along the main central LCD display (with the Home, Setup, Map and other buttons on either side) just went blank. I pulled in, switched the car off and on again but still completely blank. Phoned dealer to see if I’d inadvertently done something to switch off the display but there’s nothing of that kind. They suggested it was a software problem so in it goes on Thursday.

Has anyone else experienced this problem? I never thought I’d have a problem like this with a new Toyota, Volvo maybe but Toyota never.

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Hi Guido after a long wait I also took delivery of a RAV4 Exel AWD about 11 days ago. We visited a Drive-Thru parked up and sat listening to the radio and drinking our coffee after about 10 -15 minutes decided to leave the car park tried to start panel blank then a message malfunction please refer to owners manual went through the procedure key showing low Battery? retrieved other set please contact your dealer what? Contacted the dealer he told me to contact the AA. Waited an hour and a half I was asked how long have you been parked up and have you had the radio on by this time it was 2 hours in total in waiting time the engineer asked how long did you have the radio on I said 15 minutes and was told you cannot have the radio on that length of time as the RAV 4 only has a small Battery and has to work a whole load of components, he jump started the vehicle and told us under no circumstances must you switch off because the vehicle will malfunction what the hell is going on?   

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Have you checked the fuse ?

it still shouldn't blow but could have worked loose.

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Don’t think it can be the fuse. Just been out and tried to start the car. The screen flickered on and off a couple of times and then stayed off. I’d say a loose connection (really? With modern bus based systems?) or a software timing problem.

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AA seem to know what it is after jump starting everything was OK including the radio, informing me that using the radio for 10/15 minutes has drained the "very small" Battery should be an easy fix replace the Battery for a bigger one, had a Ford Edge previously could have the radio on in that for hours (engine off) and I understand this is a hybrid vehicle however I'm learning fast that this technology is all about sacrifices & compromises. After a motorway run we have covered a total of 200 miles, no mention from dealership about any of these restrictions come to think of it their was not much of anything due to Covid advice was read manual and give us a month or so let the dealership settle down and then ring us. 

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If you turn the ignition to "Ready" the 12 volt Battery will charge via the traction Battery and inverter. There is no need to go for a run to charge the Battery and if the traction Battery is well charged there is a fair chance the petrol engine won't start. Unless you have the A/C, lights etc turned on. 

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re. Upgrading the Battery there is no need too, the Battery is an AGM type as such it is a deep cycle Battery they take a long slow charge unlike a conventional one- it could well be due to the fact it has been sitting on a dock then sitting on a boat x amount of weeks depending on the ships route, then sitting at the docks in the UK then sitting in the dealer's storage lot - add in the Covid-19 situation the Battery got discharged

If you are parked up leave it in ready mode tbh you have to adjust to the way the hybrids work/drive

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Toyota issued advice back in April re Battery maintenance during lockdown, etc. See -

 

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My problem has nothing to do with Battery drain, or if it has then the car is fundamentally flawed. The car was only delivered to us ten days ago and I certainly haven’t been sitting in it listening to the radio. It’s been to St Albans and back (250 miles) and has only done 350 miles in total.

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Hi,  Peaky Pete we have listened to our radio and i have watched Mrs Brown’s Boy’s while parked up waiting for the wife while shopping and had no problems, the car drove off under electric then engine starts. I have taken what you have been told by the AA chap and it’s a bit worrisome, and i am definitely going to look in to this as my radio does switch off after 15 minutes and i just switch it back on again. If the AA man is right then i wont be switching the radio on while parked up again. Cheers for the info 

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15 hours ago, Guido Brunetti said:

My problem has nothing to do with battery drain, or if it has then the car is fundamentally flawed. The car was only delivered to us ten days ago and I certainly haven’t been sitting in it listening to the radio. It’s been to St Albans and back (250 miles) and has only done 350 miles in total.

It's possible your dealer allowed the 12V Battery to go flat during the lockdown if it was stored for any length of time after delivery.  If it was left flat for any length of time, the Battery would have degraded and be in need of replacement - shouldn't be problem under the warranty.

When the original Prius was launched in Europe in 2000, they used to go flat during the sea journey from Japan, and again on dealer lots as they sold very slowly.  I understand that once the issue became known the 12V Battery was disconnect for the ship journey.  My first 2002 Prius had early Battery failure, as did my 2016 Gen 4 Prius, but both times the dealer replaced them without quibble and no further issues arose.  In fact, my 2nd Gen 1 Prius was 9 years old when I sold it with 163,000 miles on it, still on the original Battery.

If you're interested in some further background info, see this thread:  

 

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The ship does multiple drops 6-8 weeks if not longer due to different quarantine laws around the world, the AGM Battery can take up to 50 hours to charge unlike a conventional car the alternator isn't always charging the 12v Battery, the car isn't flawed at all

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Most later versions of Prius (up to 45 Ah 12V Battery) were lucky to last 5 weeks of non use before the Battery went flat.   Earlier models (35 Ah), maybe 3-4 weeks - then only if everything was in perfect condition and the Battery fully charged when last used.

I'm told the latest RAV4 has a 52 Ah Battery, and I've no idea how long it would last unused.  But i take no chances - if I'm parked and want any systems active I'm in READY mode.

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When using the radio or other parts of the entertainment system it is far better to leave the car in READY mode. This will maintain the 12 volt Battery almost indefinitely and is perfectly safe provided the car is in park. You can even use the air conditioning provided you don't mind the engine starting up occasionally. Accidentally leaving the car in neutral or having the start button pressed without the brake pedal ( so ancillaries on but not in ready mode) could flatten the Battery quite quickly. Unfortunately some dealers are failing to charge the 12v Battery after new cars have spent many weeks or months in showrooms or in transit. It is very important that this is part of the pre-delivery procedure.

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The screen has now started coming on for a period and then going off again so it’s an intermittent fault. Surely this kind of problem can’t be due to Battery drain? Everything else is working just fine.

 

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4 minutes ago, Guido Brunetti said:

...Surely this kind of problem can’t be due to battery drain?...

No, almost certainly not.

I'm sorry, I'm afraid your topic got a bit hijacked.

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21 hours ago, PeteB said:

It's possible your dealer allowed the 12V battery to go flat during the lockdown if it was stored for any length of time after delivery.  If it was left flat for any length of time, the battery would have degraded and be in need of replacement - shouldn't be problem under the warranty.

I think this to be a very likely scenario tbh. I also worry over aircon systems that have sat unused in new vehicles and the possibility of refrigerant loss. 

There is no way having a radio on for even several hours should impact the system. If the Battery is 'just' 35Ah or 45Ah (and so less than a conventional Battery which would be around 60Ah) it should still power the radio for anything up to a couple of days depending how loud you have it. 35Ah is still a pretty hefty rating. 

 

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So, the car went in today. No error codes logged. Couldn't reproduce the problem so they they updated the "software" to the latest version.

Fingers crossed and hope for the best? I'm not convinced ...

 

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On 7/21/2020 at 2:05 PM, flash22 said:

.... unlike a conventional car the alternator isn't always charging the 12v battery,

To clarify, the Toyota Hybrids do not have an alternator, nor do they have a starter motor.
That's the reason why our RAV4's can do with a relatively low capacity Battery, all the way back in the car.

The only things in the car that are powered by the 12V Battery are the lights, the instrument displays, the MM system, the wiper motor, etc.
And last but not least, it's needed to initialize the Hybrid system when you press the Start button.
The 12V Battery is charged by the High Voltage Battery, via the Inverter-Converter, and no matter how long your wife needs for the shopping, as long as you keep the system in READY and in "Park", and as long as there's fuel in the tank, you can listen to the radio, watch a movie, etc. and the system takes care of itself.
Very clever!

BTW, the RAV4 Hybrid is rather different compared to a conventional car.
For instance, it has:

-no gear box, but a planetary gear set.
-no clutch
-no starter motor
-no alternator
-no reverse gear

And ... no power from the 2.5 liter engine is wasted, since it doesn't need to drive things like an alternator, airco compressor, water pump and cooling fans. All are electric, which is one of the reasons why the car is so fuel efficient.
Again, very clever system.

And yes, the 12V Battery can go flat. Leave the car alone for 5 weeks and you surely need to remember how to open the door and how to use the jumpstart point under the hood.
That's all in the manual. 🙄

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2 hours ago, Thermal said:

... the 12V battery ... it's needed to initialize the Hybrid system when you press the Start button.

Absolutely.  Part of that is to engage relays that connect both positive and negative sides of the HV battery to the Hybrid System, and disconnect them again when the car is switched off.  That's why, unlike the 12V, the HV battery can last months of non-use with minimal energy loss.

...the RAV4 Hybrid is rather different compared to a conventional car.  For instance, it has: ... - no reverse gear - it just turns the primary Motor/Generator the other way - simples!

...

 

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Semantics, Alternator - Generator same difference it's a device for generation of electricity, Gearbox - it's a receptacle aka box attached to the engine containing gears for the means of changing ratios

I'm quite aware of how the HSD works

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My sincere apologies for the delay, not good with all this online PC trickery pokery technology thanks to everyone who provided advice it is appreciated.

OK so I have never owned a hybrid vehicle before and to say I was surprised the vehicle's Battery went flat whilst sat listening to the radio is an understatement I'm not sure if it's important but I have no idea what the status of the 12v? Battery was on handover, the AA guy said he had attended a lot of starting issues where the radio had drained the Battery, so it seems a common problem, if it's OK I would like to give my initial verdict so far, (this incident aside) on the RAV 4 Excel sometime.

Regards. 

Peaky Pete.

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Hi Pete, been doing some research as we're planning an Excel model for march 2021 ,apparently as long as vehicle is in ready mode you could sit all day with radio on ,engine may then kick in occasionally. 

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13 hours ago, 2bikes said:

Hi Pete, been doing some research as we're planning an Excel model for march 2021 ,apparently as long as vehicle is in ready mode you could sit all day with radio on ,engine may then kick in occasionally. 

Yep.  I once had occasion to sleep in a Prius all night on a cold winter night (don't ask!).  I just set the climate control to a comfortable temperature, left fully auto, car in READY mode, no problems.  The engine ran for a few minutes about 3 times an hour (partly to keep the car warm) and next time I filled up there wan't even a discernible drop in the fuel economy!

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