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Flat Battery issue


Roy124
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21 hours ago, Ian.S said:

 

I forgot to mention, all 1.8 cars have lead acid batteries under the bonnet and 2.0 have AGM in the boot
 

Roy

Your statement above is incorrect. My 2.0 TS Excel has a normal maintenance free lead acid battery in the boot. I have confirmed this by inspection and checking the manufacturer’s model number on the battery and with the dealer. Please do not make such unvalidated blanket statements. 

If you want to be really pedantic, an AGM Battery is also Lead/Acid, just not liquid😀

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25 minutes ago, Timh21 said:

If you want to be really pedantic, an AGM battery is also Lead/Acid, just not liquid😀

True

Quote

The Concorde AGM batteries are VRSLAB (Valve Regulated Sealed Lead-Acid Battery), sometimes referred to as VRLA (Valve Regulated Lead-Acid). Several manufacturers now produce AGM batteries, but Concorde was the first to develop the technology for commercial non-military use.

 

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I eventually used an individual's email address at my dealership.  The works manager rang back immediately and we have agreed to a check at the service next month and a replacement Battery if necessary.

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Update.  Car last used on Sunday, now 5 days without starting but the Battery remains steady above 12 volts.  What changed?

Last week I connected a CTEK MXS  5 and put it on charge overnight.  It ran through all its programs and finished on the float charge.  It was then disconnected.  It looks as if all it needed was a proper charge to bring it up.  I have no need to run the car soon so will keep monitoring and update.

 

I should add that the car is garaged and low temperatures are not a significant factor here. 

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Weather, it’s been milder for the last few days with highs of 8-10C°, anything close to 0 and below it’s a killer for the batteries. 👍

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  • 4 weeks later...

I had a flat Battery Thursday down to 6.8v. The car had not been used for 6 days and I had left the charger off.  The Previous time I had made 4x15 mile journeys.  30 minutes on the charger was sufficient to bring it up to a level at which it was READY to start.

It is now due a Battery check towards the end of March.  Depending on the outcome I think "RAC HP082 Jump Starter - Heavy Duty 400 Amp Rechargeable - Orange/redor similar might be useful for when I leave the car while on holiday.  Rather than actually Jump Start I think it might require connecting and waiting until it transfers some juice to the low Battery.  Thoughts?

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PS  Read the reviews:  Wont get this one as if I buy such a booster I want a compressor too.

 "RAC HP082 Jump Starter - Heavy Duty 400 Amp Rechargeable - Orange/red

Similar might be useful for when I leave the car while on holiday.  Rather than actually Jump Start I think it might require connecting and waiting until it transfers some juice to the low Battery.  Thoughts?

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I may have got this all wrong, but it sounds as if you are assuming that the ICE is started by the 12 volt Battery and can be jump started. The 12 volt Battery powers the computers, fuel injection, etc but there is no traditional starter motor. The high voltage Battery starts the motor using the motor generator. Normally the high voltage battery charges the 12 volt battery but this can only happen when the 12 volt battery has enough voltage to power the computer that controls this. This doesn't need a huge amount of current, but one way or another you've got to get enough voltage in the 12 volt circuits to get things running.

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28 minutes ago, Geoff W said:

I may have got this all wrong, but it sounds as if you are assuming that the ICE is started by the 12 volt battery and can be jump started. The 12 volt battery powers the computers, fuel injection, etc but there is no traditional starter motor. The high voltage battery starts the motor using the motor generator. Normally the high voltage battery charges the 12 volt battery but this can only happen when the 12 volt battery has enough voltage to power the computer that controls this. This doesn't need a huge amount of current, but one way or another you've got to get enough voltage in the 12 volt circuits to get things running.

Which is why said connect the jump starter Battery and wait until enough juice has been transferred to the system to enable the system to start.  I have not tried connection and immediate system start.  With my charger I found I got sufficient voltage increase from a low of 6v to get the system Ready after 30 minutes.  My worry would be parking up on a dock side or worse off airport valet parking and having a dead Battery after two weeks.

I am waiting for my garage to do a Battery test when it goes in for its annual service.

Jump Starter battery is of course a legacy name and they need to come up with an alternative such as Booster Battery.  Many are in fact already just that with ICE owners complaining that they don't have enough power to actually turn a starter motor. 

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Hi,

any Toyota hybrid with dead 12v Battery can be indeed jump started using another car or Battery charger and no need to wait more than 30 seconds to do that once all connected., as soon as the car is set in ready mode the main Battery will provide charge to the 12v battery and the car will run, most likely this is the reason why Toyota uses small 12v batteries in their hybrids. Is it going to start again after you turn it off it will depend of 12v battery state of charge and how long you will run the car after initial jump start. 

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2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi,

any Toyota hybrid with dead 12v battery can be indeed jump started using another car or battery charger and no need to wait more than 30 seconds to do that once all connected., as soon as the car is set in ready mode the main battery will provide charge to the 12v battery and the car will run, most likely this is the reason why Toyota uses small 12v batteries in their hybrids. Is it going to start again after you turn it off it will depend of 12v battery state of charge and how long you will run the car after initial jump start. 

While I have a recommended float charger, depending on the outcome of the garage check, I may well invest in a backup Battery too.  The one I had before would sit in the boot and be recharged from the socket in the boot.  It also provided a light source should I need to attempt a wheel change in the dark though at my age I think I shall wait for assistance.

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On 3/2/2021 at 2:14 PM, Roy124 said:

While I have a recommended float charger, depending on the outcome of the garage check, I may well invest in a backup battery too.  The one I had before would sit in the boot and be recharged from the socket in the boot.  It also provided a light source should I need to attempt a wheel change in the dark though at my age I think I shall wait for assistance.

I went flat last week and used this. https://bearmach.com/product/electrical-charging-toelelec/jump-starter-genius-boost-sport-500a-ultrasafe-lithium-gb20?glCountry=UK&glCurrency=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQiAst2BBhDJARIsAGo2ldVxmso9f-FrKPMcztUEm4gptkBx9ZRafi53I_yCN0YRwfP0ead4NkUaArLkEALw_wcB

It can fit in the glove compartment easily, has an inspection light, and can even charge your phone. It had me going in seconds.

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1 hour ago, Timmon said:

I went flat last week and used this. https://bearmach.com/product/electrical-charging-toelelec/jump-starter-genius-boost-sport-500a-ultrasafe-lithium-gb20?glCountry=UK&glCurrency=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQiAst2BBhDJARIsAGo2ldVxmso9f-FrKPMcztUEm4gptkBx9ZRafi53I_yCN0YRwfP0ead4NkUaArLkEALw_wcB

It can fit in the glove compartment easily, has an inspection light, and can even charge your phone. It had me going in seconds.

That is exactly the one I was looking at.  I think probably well worth it should Battery flats be a fact of life.  I have until June before our first away day though only 'off grid' for 4 days.

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15 hours ago, Roy124 said:

That is exactly the one I was looking at.  I think probably well worth it should battery flats be a fact of life.  I have until June before our first away day though only 'off grid' for 4 days.

It’s not good for your Battery to let it go completely flat, and then jump start. This generally takes away some of the batteries usable capacity. 
 

you would probably be better pro-actively mitigating a flat Battery by trickle charging periodically to keep the Battery at a healthy level 

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On 1/8/2021 at 12:35 PM, Roy124 said:

Tony, thank you.  I tried a range check.  My garage is attached to the house.  My keys are near my front door and on a direct line about 20 feet away.  On a diagonal the direct path passes through a double thermalite block wall.  The key works.  Rather than your pepsi can idea I think we can go one better.  We have a small drawer in our hall table.  It is the exact size of a Marks and Spencer Belgian chocolate biscuit tin*.  I will try that.

*I must declare an interest, we have M&S shares so please try their biscuit tin 🙂

Don't forget to do this for both keys!

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3 hours ago, Gray86 said:

It’s not good for your battery to let it go completely flat, and then jump start. This generally takes away some of the batteries usable capacity. 
 

you would probably be better pro-actively mitigating a flat battery by trickle charging periodically to keep the battery at a healthy level 

While your advice is correct it is also impactable.  Next year my car will have two occasions parked away from home while we are on holiday.  I think this will apply to many drivers next year.  My reference to June is when we will not have access to power source.  I hope the Battery will last at least 4 days and it is quite likely that we shall use the car in those 4 days though and the 'run for 30 minutes' regime would be an alternative.

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I ordered the noco starter, but they have no stock until April.

The Autowit supercap jump starter looks interesting.

I think any decent (say >5Amp) 12V power supply would get the corolla started, you just have to get it past the HV test check. One thing that might get in the way is the headlights, mine always seem to come on as soon as i press the start button.

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1 minute ago, camellia30 said:

I ordered the noco starter, but they have no stock until April.

The Autowit supercap jump starter looks interesting.

I think any decent (say >5Amp) 12V power supply would get the corolla started, you just have to get it past the HV test check. One thing that might get in the way is the headlights, mine always seem to come on as soon as i press the start button.

But can you switch the off to manual operation and only drl to be on automatically like previous models? 

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7 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

But can you switch the off to manual operation and only drl to be on automatically like previous models? 

Well I've found the section in the manual that tells me to turn off the headlights before jump starting, now to find how to turn off the headlights...

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30 minutes ago, camellia30 said:

Well I've found the section in the manual that tells me to turn off the headlights before jump starting, now to find how to turn off the headlights...

Quite.  As with many 'helpful' features there comes a time when you need to change them.  Have you figured out your rear fog light yet? 🙂

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5 hours ago, camellia30 said:

Well I've found the section in the manual that tells me to turn off the headlights before jump starting, now to find how to turn off the headlights...

Yes, my gripe, if it is getting dark, you have headlights , no choice! Can be dangerous, as I have posted a few times before. Best you can do is switch to side lights, which will cancel the headlights, which will save some load on the Battery. This is what I do on dark November days to stop the headlights flashing on and off, thus avoiding other drivers thinking I am flashing them out of junctions!

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5 hours ago, Timmon said:

Yes, my gripe, if it is getting dark, you have headlights , no choice! Can be dangerous, as I have posted a few times before. Best you can do is switch to side lights, which will cancel the headlights, which will save some load on the battery. This is what I do on dark November days to stop the headlights flashing on and off, thus avoiding other drivers thinking I am flashing them out of junctions!

Why not switch the lights to full rather than side. Then you will be legal as well as unconfusing.

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12 hours ago, RabButler said:

Why not switch the lights to full rather than side. Then you will be legal as well as unconfusing.

+1 👍

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18 hours ago, Timmon said:

Yes, my gripe, if it is getting dark, you have headlights , no choice! Can be dangerous, as I have posted a few times before. Best you can do is switch to side lights, which will cancel the headlights, which will save some load on the battery. This is what I do on dark November days to stop the headlights flashing on and off, thus avoiding other drivers thinking I am flashing them out of junctions!

Your cars has full LED lights right? With led side lights it’s ok to drive from safety point of view, however if your car is older and has standard side lights bulbs like my one has w5w it is very dangerous to drive a vehicle with only side lights ON because these bulbs emits low intensity light that creates a “stroboscopic effect” which makes moving objects look stationary or moving at much slower speeds.,  conditions for unavoidable collision with other road users. I personally never drive a car with side lights on , always full lights or drl. 👍

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