Jump to content
Do Not Sell My Personal Information


Auris hybrid - did I make the right decision?


Recommended Posts

Hi everyone! 

I’m new to the forums and also to the Toyota world in general. I hope you might be able to help me and give a random Swedish guy some advice. I would appreciate it enormously if you would bear with me for a rather long post. 

I recently bought a Toyota Auris touring sports (I think you call it “estate”, right?) hybrid from a local authorized Toyota dealership. It’s a 2017 model that has been driven for about 28 000 km. I’m going to pick it up next week. I’m really excited about it, but at the same time I’m starting to have second thoughts and doubt my decision. Of course I’ve tested the car, but I think that it might be hard to tell what real world usage is like just from test drives. I currently drive a diesel VW Polo that me and my family really have started to outgrow. We have a small child and really need more space. 

 

What do I want from a car?

Well I would say my top priorities (not in particular order) would be:

  1. Good fuel economy/low emissions, both out of environmental concern and personally for my wallet. 
  2. Enough space. I want a proper “estate” car that fits two adults and two children comfortably, and has a good sized boot. 
  3. Safety. 
  4. Reliability. I really hate having to deal with issues with the car. 

At the moment I’m off work on parental leave, but I will soon start commuting again, and it’s a rather long commute, about 160km (100 miles) round trip, with about 85-90% motorway. I know this is not where the hybrids shine the most, but my plan is not to do this commute for too much longer, since it takes up way to much of my time that I would rather spend with my family. So hopefully in a year or so my situation will be different and my commute will be shorter, and my usage would be a more “mixed” use case, rather than just doing endless kilometers on the motorway. 

My main concerns are:

  1. Will fuel consumption be horrible on long motorway trips? My guess is the hybrid could probably be beaten by a diesel for that use case, but we don’t want another diesel anyway. As long as it is on par with the less thirsty petrol engines out there for such trips I guess I would be satisfied. 
  2. Does the engine and gearbox operate at a satisfying level at motorway speeds (110kmh/70mph)? Would it feel strained or pressed? Or would it run comfortably? I haven’t been able to legally test drive the car at those speeds since the dealership isn’t in an area with such roads. 
  3. Some say the engine and gearbox feel “sluggish”. When testing it I noticed that it felt different, less aggressive, compared to my diesel, but I think it felt responsive enough. I would say that my driving style is quite calm and well planned, so I guess that would be a good match?

If I had the money to do it, and the possibility of charging at home, I would probably buy a fully electric car. But since that’s not the case right now, the hybrid feels like a logical choice in between. I really like the idea, and the feeling when you slow down and the car goes into ev mode is amazing! If you’ve read this far I also want to say thank you for taking the time, I really appreciate it. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Edvin,

It's very obvious that you have really thought this through!

In our household we have a pair of Auris hybrids but also a Skoda diesel (and an old MX5!).

There will be no shortage of posters who will respond to your questions.

I think your expectations are entirely realistic, and the hybrid Auris' er, 'weaknesses', have been identified and understood by yourself.  I think the car will fit your needs well.  You will miss the torque of your (turbo?) diesel Polo, I imagine.  When I drive our diesel it feels pretty energetic after only driving the Auris for a while, which  does make it enjoyable.  But if I was going to be doing lengthy days 'at-the-wheel', with the prospect of congestion, then the Auris would win.  It is one of the few, affordable cars that I have driven that I get out of feeling more relaxed than when I got in.

The motorway drive is, as you rightly say, not its greatest strength, and as the traffic goes 'urban-syle' then the fuel consumption will start to get better, realistically.

Environmentally, the exhaust emissions are as good as it gets for a non-electric car.  And, as it happens on this model, the batteries are NiMH, which, I believe don't carry quite the same environmental burden as Lithium (EV) cells do.  In addition, the car has about only about 45 kg of these, so not that  many, and it uses them to good effect, so the 'whole world' environmental price of these could be shown in a better light than you'd expect next to an EV.  Also, the regenerative braking helps reduce brake system and tyre particulates (PM 2.5 etc.), despite what some badly-informed newspapers say, furthermore, the relatively low-tech engine doesn't create many noxious emissions at all, and that's when it's running, which it sometimes isn't.

Any car, even an EV, is a bit of an environmental disaster, but with the Auris, you are doing what you can (excluding public transport, cycling, walking, or staying at home etc.) to reduce these problems.  And this is an automatic (read: especially relaxing!) car that might even develop your 'good citizen' skills to an even greater extent when on the road - it can have that effect on you. 

And what could be 'wearing' parts in a normal automatic are replaced by an ingenious, but very simply-designed gearbox, which with electronic, 'solid-state' controls has no clutches, valves or belts at all.  It is truly an astonishingly reliable automatic transmission, which also has no expensive maintenance habits.  In user surveys (by J.D.Power) the transmission refinement scores 9.5 out of 10.  At lower speeds/ in traffic it is superb to be behind.  And the rest of the car is OK too.

Also, when you mention sluggishness, your next car is probably going to be a petrol car I'd imagine.  In order to meet the current regulations these are often a bit 'cold-blooded' off the line.  In the Toyota hybrid, the electric assistance fills in that 'hole' with immediate response.  And when you completely 'floor it', (if you ignore the noise of the engine revs), it really does pick-up and go some.  This will genuinely surprise you, it is almost a certainty!

I think that you should  give this car a chance, you might have to take the time adjust to it a little (and even end up liking the differences a lot).  In the worst case, if you find it under-powered, you could sell it on, as a secondhand car the hit shouldn't be bad.

I am happy to elaborate on any of these points, but breakfast awaits.

Hope that helps.

Welcome to the club.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Have no fears! Reliability will be great. Economy on the motorway depends how you drive, but if you don't thrash it and indulge in violent acceleration you should get economy similar to a diesel. 70mph is relaxed and quiet. The only time it feels sluggish is if you're already doing 70 for instance and you suddenly try to accelerate. The instant throttle response isn't there and the engine revs rather high. It does however pick up speed after a delay. In reality you seldom come across this and it's more than adequate, economy will get worse as you cruise over 70 and particularly over 80. My previous Vauxhall astra diesel would average upper 40s mpg, Auris averages upper 50s to mid 60s.

With seats down you don't get a proper flat estate load space but you can get plenty in and rear seats roomy enough 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Have no fear, Edvin.  You have made a brilliant choice.  I go along with what Gerg and Geoff have already said.  You will find your Auris most likely to be the most relaxing car you have driven  Its an automatic, but not like your normal automatic gearbox cars, which do have gear changes, that have got less noticeable with increase in technology.....but with the Auris the "gearbox" is seemless. You just accelerate very smoothly.                                  

The hybrid tecnology in your car is now over 20 years old, and Toyota got it right first time.  I did a lot of research before I bought my first hybrid, 2010 Auris, which the wife now has. That was summer 2017.  There are options for sensitivity of the accelerator pedal, Eco, Normal, Power.I suspect your test drive vehicle was in Eco mode. Its the softest acceleration, probably good on the Swedish winter roads, but Normal and Power give you different sensations - and less fuel economy. Use these buttons wisely.

Do remember that whilst the car you buying may have done 28000km, many of those km will have been covered whilst the engine was stationary... up to 50% of the time, so engine wera is going to be a lot less the 28000km of use.  You doing mostly motorwat speeds, so the chance of the engine doing less work will be reduced.  Having said that I reckon in the summer you could possibly get high50's/ow60's mpg, you will see more petrol used in the winter when the computer will kick the engine into use due to cold outside temperatures, heater use etc,

Worthy to note as well is that your hybrid does not have a starter motor, alternator, nor clutch - all very expensive items when they go wrong.  So hybrid technology is solid as a rock, other parts like steering, suspension, exhausts etc are just like any other type of car, they will wear, more so if subject to abuse.  One part to keep an eye on is rear brakes. They dont get a lot of use due to regenerative braking through the electric motors, so thay can seize up due to lack of use. Occassionally, and only when safe to do so, do some heavy braking just to keep things moving. 

I positive you should enjoy the experience. Enjoy

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi and welcome.
You have made the most sensible choice 100% for picking up an Auris hybrid, this car will suits your needs the best, any Toyota hybrid is best car to own right now. Motorway journeys are pleasant and fuel efficiency is great, the car may feel sluggish only if you drive in Eco mode, keep it in Normal and you won’t have that kind of feeling at all. Reliability probably best of all estate cars, driving 100miles a day will be even better for the car then if you drive occasionally only. When you pick the car , make sure your tyres are set at correct pressure on cold, before the car been drive off as these affect efficiency. Read the manual book, and you can watch some videos how to drive Toyota hybrid efficiently, watch videos for Prius as it’s basically the same car under the bonnet but different shape outside and all that applies for Prius is relevant for your car too. At beginning may find that the car is not as fast as diesels, this is a fake feeling because the car accelerates smoothly and there are no gear changes and no shift shock that is normal for manual or other type automatics, this car drives very much like full ev. , and makes you drive relaxed. , manual doesn’t. Once you get use to it you will love it and appreciate a lot. 
Good luck and enjoy your new car. 👍🚗❄️

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Edvin, welcome to the forum from a cold snow covered Donegal in Ireland. The previous contributors have given you a comprehensive and accurate feedback on your wise choice, and I agree with all of those. Enjoy your Toyota Auris, and it will equal your mpg on motorway journeys, and beat it on urban driving. You’ll be really amazed by the car and happy with your choice. Any questions you may have, post them on the forum, guys on here are willing to help and share knowledge. Stay safe 👍🚗

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello again everyone!

Thanks for your feedback.  I really appreciate that you’re taking the time to give me such detailed answers. They have both made me wiser and calmed my nerves. Big purchases like these aren’t something you make that often, so I have been anxious to get it just right. You’ve also made me feel very welcomed to the forum. 🙂  Looking forward to picking up my new car! 
 

By the way, do you use B mode at all on your hybrids? As I’ve come to understand, it might be nice when going down longer descents. Do you find it good or bad for fuel economy? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Edbe said:

Hello again everyone!

Thanks for your feedback.  I really appreciate that you’re taking the time to give me such detailed answers. They have both made me wiser and calmed my nerves. Big purchases like these aren’t something you make that often, so I have been anxious to get it just right. You’ve also made me feel very welcomed to the forum. 🙂  Looking forward to picking up my new car! 
 

By the way, do you use B mode at all on your hybrids? As I’ve come to understand, it might be nice when going down longer descents. Do you find it good or bad for fuel economy? 

You have made a good choice. I have had my 2015 Auris Hybrid Estate for a year and don't regret it. Averaging 53mpg at the moment and 60-65mpg in warmer weather. Only has a 45 litre tank, so costs very little to fill up. Acceleration is quicker than you think, when you floor it. Noisy but once up to speed quiet resumes. A good, reliable, cheap to run estate. I think it looks good too. Never used B mode so can't say.

James.

Toyota2.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

B mode, not really. Only at specific times when going downhill for some time for example and your hybrid Battery is in the middle state of charge and you like to force charged, otherwise it’s more inefficient then better mpg., it is also not recommended on speeds over 65mph 100km/h. In town driving makes the car more jerky and forces unnecessarily running of the ice (internal combustion engine). The reason B exist is to provide engine braking while going downhill to prevent brake fading. You can actually use the brake pedal sensibly and you actually slowing down the car with regenerative braking only, same as B mode and the brakes will engage when you further press the brake pedal . 👍

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Edbe said:

Hello again everyone!

Thanks for your feedback.  I really appreciate that you’re taking the time to give me such detailed answers. They have both made me wiser and calmed my nerves. Big purchases like these aren’t something you make that often, so I have been anxious to get it just right. You’ve also made me feel very welcomed to the forum. 🙂  Looking forward to picking up my new car! 
 

By the way, do you use B mode at all on your hybrids? As I’ve come to understand, it might be nice when going down longer descents. Do you find it good or bad for fuel economy? 

Hi Edvin, welcome to the forum from a cold snow covered Donegal in Ireland. The previous contributors have given you a comprehensive and accurate feedback on your wise choice, and I agree with all of those. Enjoy your Toyota Auris, and it will equal your mpg on motorway journeys, and beat it on urban driving. You’ll be really amazed by the car and happy with your choice. Any questions you may have, post them on the forum, guys on here are willing to help and share knowledge. Stay safe 👍🚗

Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Auris James said:

You have made a good choice. I have had my 2015 Auris Hybrid Estate for a year and don't regret it. Averaging 53mpg at the moment and 60-65mpg in warmer weather. Only has a 45 litre tank, so costs very little to fill up. Acceleration is quicker than you think, when you floor it. Noisy but once up to speed quiet resumes. A good, reliable, cheap to run estate. I think it looks good too. Never used B mode so can't say.

James.

Toyota2.jpg

I’ve had mine for two years and never used B mode. My understanding is that it’s supposed to augment your normal brakes on very steep downhills whilst it simultaneously recharge the Hybrid Battery system, again normal breaking will do the same thing. Old Saying: Let sleeping dogs lie🤣😂

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Edvin, re the B mode.  I definitely needed it on one occasion.  I was coming down a long and steep hill.  There is definitely a braking effect,  not too sharp, just constant.  The hill was so steep that I also had to press the foot brake as well.  The hill was so long and steep that the articulated lorry I was following began to overheat its brakes. There was a strong burning smell, and later smoke from the brakes. It had to pull over lower down the hill when the road widened.

B is easy to apply. You do not need to stop to engage it, just move the lever to B.  Same when you no longer need it, just slip it into Drive/Forward or whatever it’s called in Sweden.

A tip about using B in the winter on snowy roads. Picked this tip up on this forum. Best drive in Eco mode when snowy roads, but if very slippy slip into B mode and it will help even more with traction at slow speeds at least.  As it only snows, and lightly, for a few days a year where I live I have not been able to test this, though I understand the logic.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Edvin, re the B mode.  I definitely needed it on one occasion.  I was coming down a long and steep hill.  There is definitely a braking effect,  not too sharp, just constant.  The hill was so steep that I also had to press the foot brake as well.  The hill was so long and steep that the articulated lorry I was following began to overheat its brakes. There was a strong burning smell, and later smoke from the brakes. It had to pull over lower down the hill when the road widened.

B is easy to apply. You do not need to stop to engage it, just move the lever to B.  Same when you no longer need it, just slip it into Drive/Forward or whatever it’s called in Sweden.

A tip about using B in the winter on snowy roads. Picked this tip up on this forum. Best drive in Eco mode when snowy roads, but if very slippy slip into B mode and it will help even more with traction at slow speeds at least.  As it only snows, and lightly, for a few days a year where I live I have not been able to test this, though I understand the logic.

Did tried today B on step downhill but it didn’t help a lot and I had to use the brakes to keep the speed low enough. B mode in slower speeds only work on regeneration from the electric motors and when at higher speeds does it together with the ice, perhaps then can be more useful. 👍

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Edbe said:

My main concerns are:

  1. Will fuel consumption be horrible on long motorway trips? My guess is the hybrid could probably be beaten by a diesel for that use case, but we don’t want another diesel anyway. As long as it is on par with the less thirsty petrol engines out there for such trips I guess I would be satisfied. 
  2. Does the engine and gearbox operate at a satisfying level at motorway speeds (110kmh/70mph)? Would it feel strained or pressed? Or would it run comfortably? I haven’t been able to legally test drive the car at those speeds since the dealership isn’t in an area with such roads. 
  3. Some say the engine and gearbox feel “sluggish”. When testing it I noticed that it felt different, less aggressive, compared to my diesel, but I think it felt responsive enough. I would say that my driving style is quite calm and well planned, so I guess that would be a good match?

If I had the money to do it, and the possibility of charging at home, I would probably buy a fully electric car. But since that’s not the case right now, the hybrid feels like a logical choice in between. I really like the idea, and the feeling when you slow down and the car goes into ev mode is amazing! If you’ve read this far I also want to say thank you for taking the time, I really appreciate it. 

My 2p :

1. I ran a Skoda Diesel before the Auris. The hybrid returns similar fuel consumption on motorway run. I'd get high 50s out of the Skoda, The Auris I've seen 55 with the cruise set at a true 70mph, shorter motorway trips I see high 40s. Diesel had more torque for overtaking. I was pleasantly surprised that the Auris did over 50mpg given the combustion engine is running permanently. My last 1.6 petrol car did 36mpg if you really behaved yourself.

 2. Yeah it's fine. Tends to settle down to what feels like a steady 2200rpm ish at a cruise. Put your foot down and it'll rev up to make more power. The old petrol car was pulling 3600rpm at 70 mph, so I find the Auris much more relaxed.

3. It's ... different. There's way less torque for overtaking compared to a diesel or a more powerful petrol engine so you need to think ahead more. My driving has chilled out somewhat since getting the Auris and I'm just happy to waft along.

I can see myself going fully electric when they sort out the charging issues. Mate of mine just got a Renault Zoe through a work lease, so he kindly let me drive it for a couple of hours. Very much like like a Hybrid to drive, felt pretty much second nature. Noticeably more torque (like a diesel) out on the open road. Well until the 90mph limiter.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hej Edvin,

We own a non hybrid Toyota Auris 2016 model with 1.2 lit turbo engine and I thought I could extrapolate some of my thoughts to your hybrid model. On the points of safety and reliability, you could not have picked better (provided that you have the extra safety features like auto brakes/ collision warning, lane departure warning, auto head lights, road sign recognition etc). The collision warning saved my wife the other day so it works. As far as the space is concerned it should be enough since you have the wagon (herrgårdsvagn) variety. The driving dynamics are pleasant but not as exciting as Mazda3. Our turbo model is very zippy. The sound insulation is adequate but bad choice of tyres reveal the lack of it. Noise levels are better with winter tyres (friktionsdäck) and 16 inches rim. 17 inches rims can be noisy. The only down side is the fuel consumption figures which are too optimistic for both petrol engine and hybrid (my son has a lexus 300h hybrid). Our petrol Auris consumes 5.5 lit/100 km highway and 7 lit/100km city.  My son's lexus 300h does worse than our non hybrid, but he is a young, spirited driver. Some car companies are more honest than others as far as the consumption figures are concerned but unfortunately Toyota is not one of them but we like them since they are dead reliable. Somebody mentioned hybrid having no alternator etc to take care of and that is true. Our old and faithful Aygo's alternator packed up (why do these Denso alternators give up after 12 years or 80000km, I don't get it. Our earlier Toyota Corolla did the same at same milage and age!)  and we have a expensive repair in front of us. Just keep your expectation on fuel consumption low and enjoy the ride. Just as my son says life is too short to worry about fuel consumption figures (after buying a hybrid!!). 😀

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rajivrattna said:

The only down side is the fuel consumption figures which are too optimistic for both petrol engine and hybrid. .......... Some car companies are more honest than others as far as the consumption figures are concerned but unfortunately Toyota is not one of them

The official fuel consumption figures are obtained using a laboratory testing regime and are intended to provide a standard comparison between models. Legally vehicle manufacturer, dealers etc have to use these figures to enable purchasers to compare models.

They do not represent what owners may achieve in real world driving conditions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again for even more answers! Really appreciate it. I guess I’ll start in standard driving mode and take it from there.  Really excited to go pick up my new car! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, rajivrattna said:

 
The sound insulation is adequate but bad choice of tyres reveal the lack of it. Noise levels are better with winter tyres (friktionsdäck) and 16 inches rim. 17 inches rims can be noisy.

That’s actually one of the main reasons I picked a car with the “active” trim level instead of the more expensive “intense” version. At least here in Sweden the “active” comes with 16” wheels as standard (205/55r16) instead of the 17” (225/45r17) that the “intense” comes with. Since the Auris is not a sports car I don’t see any real benefit with having big low profile tires. The 16” wheels are hopefully at least just a little quieter and more comfortable. 
 

How do the rest of you experience tyre noise? What tyre size do you have? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Edbe said:

That’s actually one of the main reasons I picked a car with the “active” trim level instead of the more expensive “intense” version. At least here in Sweden the “active” comes with 16” wheels as standard (205/55r16) instead of the 17” (225/45r17) that the “intense” comes with. Since the Auris is not a sports car I don’t see any real benefit with having big low profile tires. The 16” wheels are hopefully at least just a little quieter and more comfortable. 
 

How do the rest of you experience tyre noise? What tyre size do you have? 

Hi, I have the two sizes on my car and with both of them the fuel consumption and road noise seem very similar, with the 16” the car is slightly more lean in corners but offers slightly better comfort, 17” obviously better in corners but less comfortable. Biggest difference is in tyre prices , 16” wins by far and also choice of tyres as these 205/55 16 is very popular tyre size in Europe and UK.  Most important though is to pick the right tyres for the season, winter with winter all at least all season all weather, and summer with summer tyres, this can make a huge difference in comfort, stability, safety, performance and road noise.  17” tyres at 45 height are not that low profile, 18” and above with 35 height are the worst for comfort. You make again a good choice. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A quick update after actually using the car for a few days:

It feels like a really nice, solid car. I am really happy with my purchase! I find it really nice to drive. Like many have said, it is kind of a relaxing experience driving it, but at the same time I feel like I have a good amount of power under the pedal if I need it. Watching the ev-symbol show up every once in a while feels very satisfying too. The car feels spacious as well. 
 

One thing though. I’ve noticed that the driver’s seat is very different compared to my old Volkswagen. The VW seat feels like it has a more “flat” back. It feels like my lower back gets in a slightly weird position in the Auris’s seat. I’ve tried adjusting the lumbar support, but haven’t come up with something that feels comfortable. It is almost like I want to have more support for the upper back, to make the seat more “flat”, if you get what I mean. Actually had a little (just a little) pain in my lower back today after driving for quite a while. What do you all think about the seat?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Toyota seat never felt wrong, it's quite comfortable. Swapping from a Skoda vRS I had a lower back twinge and some cramp in the hip after 30+ minutes in the car. That disappeared after a couple of weeks - the muscles must have got used to whatever the change was and the I've been fine since.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not my year of Auris, Edvin, so I can’t comment on the seat at all.

I had a 2015 Hyundai i30, nice car, but after a 20 mile journey my right thigh was killing me. I tried everything to get a comfy position but all things failed. Had to sell the car after 6 months and go a Nissan Qasqai. Expensive solution to the problem but it worked.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Got you for the seat , absolutely same experience when i had my Auris in the beginning. Prius has much more comfortable seat, however you can play with adjusting the seat height position and recline position, make the seat stay slightly lower than your usual preferences and the recline slightly bigger angle, helps a lot, at least to me. 👍 You can leave the lumbar support in neutral position before you try the adjustment above. , I had fight with my car for years and I got my sweet spot once on long eu trip, I remember it and no worries ever since. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I got my 2015 Auris Touring hybrid,  I found that the Lumber support was digging into my back, so pressed the button until it wasn't digging in. I rubbed my hand down the backrest until it was soft/couldn't feel the Lumber support.

Adjusted the base so it was raised up the rear and experimented with the backrest until comfy. I too like a more flat backrest like my old 1996 Volvo 940. Took at least a few weeks to find the ultimate position! Thankfully, just me driving!

James.

Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Auris James said:

When I got my 2015 Auris Touring hybrid,  I found that the Lumber support was digging into my back, so pressed the button until it wasn't digging in. I rubbed my hand down the backrest until it was soft/couldn't feel the Lumber support.

Adjusted the base so it was raised up the rear and experimented with the backrest until comfy. I too like a more flat backrest like my old 1996 Volvo 940. Took at least a few weeks to find the ultimate position! Thankfully, just me driving!

James.

This sounds a bit like my experience. What setting exactly do you refer to when you say that you adjusted the base so it was raised up In the rear? I feel like the seat is a bit raised up in the front atm and that might have something to do with it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...




Forums


News


Membership