12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Tommy X]

1 hour ago, Corollanutter said:

You are correct, however if you are hard wiring there is really no problem in connecting directly if you so wish (or if it's easier to make the connection). The advice to connect the charger negative to a body point is to prevent any sparks in the vacinity of the battery (i.e. when connecting / disconnecting the charger) from causing an explosion. When connecting / disconnecting a charger it's always positive first, followed by negative for this very reason (but TBH, anyone with a brain would turn the charger off first!!)  As the eyelets leads are a permanent connection, this precaution is not really required. 

Yes Chris but with respect I was referring to hard wiring a charger lead to a chassis earth point, lots of cars with start/stop tech have some sort of a Battery management sensor on the negative terminal clamp which needs to be bypassed by connecting to the chassis earth point of the Battery lead 

[Handgun]

Could the problem be solved by removing the existing standard Battery and installing a aftermarket Battery perhaps with a higher capacity?

[Max_Headroom]

2 hours ago, Handgun said:

Could the problem be solved by removing the existing standard battery and installing a aftermarket battery perhaps with a higher capacity?

Read the thread this is discussed many times.

[Cyker]

Not solved, just given a stay of execution so to speak.

[Roy124]

I have been running the car regularly but yesterday, just for a change, I decided to use my CTEK charger for a change.  I was surprised.

Typical Battery voltage after about 24 hours was 12.35v.  I then used the CTEK for 16 hours.  The reading when I switched off the charger was 13.7v  and then dropped to 12.89v , we went for a drive and 4 hours later the Battery was back at 12.84v.

In other words the HV/12v recharge is sufficient to given a useable 12v+ but the CTEK charger pushed the Battery up an extra 0.5v.  

I'll monitor the voltage afresh over the next days to see how long before it drops to 12.25v

 

[Derek.w]

Roy124

Ctek charger is not charging all the time at some point after a full charge it switches off then after a time it turns on again when the voltage drops in one of two modes

Float mode 13.6 volts constant voltage

Pulse mode is varable 12.7 to 14.4 voltskeeps Battery at 95 to 100% fully charged.

So at some point the charger switches off so you have voltages of 12.6 or 12.8 volts.

[Roy124]

And today, 24 hrs later, the voltage had dropped to 12.76v.

The point, Derek, is not the behaviour of the CTEK during its charging cycle but that the Battery voltage POST-CTEK charge is, and has remained, significantly higher than the voltage after a normal Ready mode charge cycle. 

This suggests two things.  After a long run the Ready mode cycle provides a lower, but adequate, charge.  After numerous shorter runs the Ready mode cycle is possibly leaving the Battery charge much lower with the increased possibility of a flat Battery after a very few days. 

In conclusion, I think those who advocate a regular charger cycle are correct. 

[Dala]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

And today, 24 hrs later, the voltage had dropped to 12.76v.....

Roy, how do you measure car Battery voltage?
Multimeter or bluetooth monitor?

[Roy124]

4 minutes ago, Dala said:

Roy, how do you measure car battery voltage?
Multimeter or Bluetooth monitor?

BTM, precise values are unimportant, it is relative that is relevant, however the recorded voltages during the CTEK cycle are spot on. 

[Dala]

my chart from last month
charging the car Battery with the CTEK TIME TO GO device - the RECON program

[Derek.w]

When I am driving with low 12 volt demand ie headlights off ect, the voltage from the dc/dc converter is 13.6 to 14.7 volts in charge mode it also goes down ie turns off from charging the Battery so voltage readings drop to 12.7 or 12.8 volts so indicating the Battery is fully charged.

[Dala]

I think smart charging is activated
the Battery may not be fully charged
smart charging = car Battery killer
especially calcium car batteries

[Derek.w]

41 minutes ago, Dala said:

I think smart charging is activated
the battery may not be fully charged
smart charging = car battery killer
especially calcium car batteries

Not charging it at all so letting Battery voltage drop below 12.2 volts will kill one day let it drop to 11.7 more than once and its capacity to hold charge is greatly reduced.

If you using a smart charger you have the option of charging it fully lets say 95 to 100% or you can turn your smart charger off when its led for 80% capacity comes on to extend Battery life.

[Derek.w]

Chris connecting to a chassy bolt or engine bolt is because you using it to jump start the car and on a conventional ICE car its a shorter route for the electrics high current drain to the starter motor.

[Roy124]

11 hours ago, Dala said:

I think smart charging is activated
the battery may not be fully charged
smart charging = car battery killer
especially calcium car batteries

Can you expand on this?

What is smart charging the Battery, the DC/DC convertor or a CTEK or similar? 

Are you saying smart charging kills calcium batteries? 

 

[Roy124]

10 hours ago, Derek.w said:

Jf you using a smart charger you have the option of charging it fully lets say 95 to 100% or you can turn your smart charger off when its led for 80% capacity comes on to extend battery life.

What smart charger has capacity LED?  I don't think CTEK does. 

[Trewithy]

On my CTEK, according to the instructions, when the fourth light illuminates that is 80% charged and is enough to start a car (that would be a car with a starter motor).

 

[Roy124]

Thanks Kevin, that explains Derek's point.  Of course to stop at 80% (4 LED) means watching the box.  Still, probably as interesting as weekend TV. 

[CruxisCore]

Those of you with those small jump starters, any problems stashing it in the car year round? Here in Finland it could be -30 celsius in the winter and on a sunny winter day the car is gonna be like easily 50 degrees celsius and even 80 celsius if its 30c outside and straight sunsine on the car.

[Roy124]

I think the low temperature will be the  issue. The following bears thus out:

Lithium ion phosphate batteries can be safely discharged over a wide range of temperatures, typically from –20°C to 60°C, which makes them practical for use in all-weather conditions faced by many potentially cold temperature applications including RVs and off-grid solar.12 Sept 2018

I think your greatest need will be in very cold conditions when your electrical system is under greatest stress.  I think the only safe option is to take it with you once you get the snow. 

 

[anchorman]

18 hours ago, Dala said:

I think smart charging is activated
the battery may not be fully charged
smart charging = car battery killer
especially calcium car batteries

What evidence have you got?

[Cyker]

30 minutes ago, CruxisCore said:

Those of you with those small jump starters, any problems stashing it in the car year round? Here in Finland it could be -30 celsius in the winter and on a sunny winter day the car is gonna be like easily 50 degrees celsius and even 80 celsius if its 30c outside and straight sunsine on the car.

Ideally, you're better off keeping it with you, so if you go in the house, take it with you and keep it charged ready for use, and when you go take it to the car with you.

My colleague does, this and even uses it to charge his phone while he's away from the car (His phone's Battery doesn't even last a day  )

[CruxisCore]

4 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Ideally, you're better off keeping it with you, so if you go in the house, take it with you and keep it charged ready for use, and when you go take it to the car with you.

My colleague does, this and even uses it to charge his phone while he's away from the car (His phone's battery doesn't even last a day  )

Well, that's not really gonna happen to be honest. It needs to be low (almost none) maintenance or its not gonna happen, not gonna make a hobby out of carrying a start booster with me lol.

That said, if the average temps its suggested for is -20 to 60, it's probably fine. More than -20 is quite rare and usually a few days a year at best so maybe for those I can take it inside.

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, CruxisCore said:

Well, that's not really gonna happen to be honest. It needs to be low (almost none) maintenance or its not gonna happen,

The problem is if you leave it in your boot you can guarantee the time you need it will be the time you forgot to check how much charge it has left and it wont have enough.

[CruxisCore]

 

13 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

The problem is if you leave it in your boot you can guarantee the time you need it will be the time you forgot to check how much charge it has left and it wont have enough.

I figure that is a tiny bit better way to forget it than never remember to have it in the car to begin with 😄 I'm not too worried about this specifically, as I can kinda tie with some activity I do often. Like for example when I drive to my city of origin to meet my parents (a few hour drive) every now and then, so maybe have it charging on those trips or something. Something regular but not every week. Or if the Battery holds up, charge it twice a year when switching tyre sets or something.

Is there any product that would be more aimed towards the hybrid cars? Ive understood the 500-800 A jump starters are needlessly overkill for hybrids with no starter engine. So is there anything that would be maybe giving a more sensible current for hybrid car needs? Or is it all the same whether it's just the regular jump starter? At least then I can help the wifeys ICE if that zips.