12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Similar topics merged.

[CruxisCore]

58 minutes ago, Rich L-T said:

I bought my new Yaris Cross in April 2022. Since then I have had two one week holidays during which time the car was kept in the garage. On both occasions I came home and the battery was dead. Very very disappointed. We have previously owned Corollas, Corolla Verso and Yaris and they were totally reliable and NEVER let us down once. I can't believe that the new Cross which is brilliant to drive and I'm getting 68mpg on average, just can't cope with 7 days inactivity. On the first occasion the AA breakdown man told me he gets "lots of these, especially at airports." I feel like taking this up with Toyota, - anyone fancy joining me?

New blood!

Just trying to find a pattern to these things. How is your car specced? Keyless entry? 9" Smart Connect infotainment?

How much do you drive when you are not on holidays?

But yeah, heres 30 pages of discussion on the topic. It's not uncommon, but some seem to have issues easier than others. But it could be that these people have little less of passive drain features in the car (of if they do they might have nobody waking up the system by walking past the car with keys etc) or maybe they drive so much more that the Battery remains charged.

Toyota will tell you that the car needs to be 1h in ready-mode during a week and nothing will likely come out of that. Bigger Battery will give you a little bit of leeway (so that maybe it takes 9 days instead of 7 to be empty), but if the Battery aint getting charged long enough then problems will easily ensue.

Chances are you previous Toyotas had way less tech that consumes battery even when the car is not being used. This is the challenge with modern times: i personally LOVE all these new features like the car pinging my phone i forgot to unlock the doors. But that cellular connection wont work with no battery either. I love keyless entry, but that means the car has to be half awake all the time probing if that key comes within proximity, etc. The juice just has to come from somewhere

Competitors have invented a "reset" button for the 12v battery, which gives it enough juice from the hybrid battery if needed, Toyota sadly has no such thing yet. If you look around hybrid cars in this segment, you will quickly find that these 12v issues plague most of them with certain driving habits at least. What you could do next time is manually turn off keyless entry and connected-services and whatnot before you leave for a vacation and see if that helps. Or just disconnect the battery entirely. Not that these tips make this any more acceptable, but yeah...

[Cyker]

TBH it can be mitigated - I have a suspicion a lot of the problem is due to a combination of the Battery running low during production and transport, and then subsequent low use.

I've never had an issue with mine, despite leaving it for 2 weeks over Xmas, and once leaving the sidelights on all day. However, the first thing I did with my Mk4 was go on a 2 hour hoon to get a feel for it, and I think that helped a lot - We've had some people buy the car then immediately go on a 2 week holiday, and then subsequently had a lot of trouble with the 12v, to the point where it was replaced under warranty. (And you know the battery's bad if even the dealer notices there's something wrong with it!  )

 

[CPN]

8 minutes ago, Cyker said:

TBH it can be mitigated - I have a suspicion a lot of the problem is due to a combination of the battery running low during production and transport, and then subsequent low use.

I've never had an issue with mine, despite leaving it for 2 weeks over Xmas, and once leaving the sidelights on all day. However, the first thing I did with my Mk4 was go on a 2 hour hoon to get a feel for it, and I think that helped a lot - We've had some people buy the car then immediately go on a 2 week holiday, and then subsequently had a lot of trouble with the 12v, to the point where it was replaced under warranty. (And you know the battery's bad if even the dealer notices there's something wrong with it!  )

Very similar experience with ours also...

[CruxisCore]

Mmh, good point. Especially when it's usually a month from when they finish building to actually have it ready for delivery at least here to Finland. If no one charges the Battery, it's unlikely that anyone is having it in ready mode other than when moving it around either...

I guess might stick a CTEK on mine when it comes and see what's the Battery state like at that point. Probably also gonna do that few hour test drive 😄 But might be interesting to see what the CTEK says first.

[Roy124]

4 hours ago, Rich L-T said:

I bought my new Yaris Cross in April 2022. Since then I have had two one week holidays during which time the car was kept in the garage. On both occasions I came home and the battery was dead. Very very disappointed. 

The important event was the first event.  The second flat Battery was inevitable as the first event either indicated a previous problem or caused the  problem. 

As I think Cyker pointed out, it is the driving pattern rather than the unused period that is most important. 

A succession of light usage, say 2-3 days between uses, short journey times, and you start to build up a deficit. 

The hybrid charging system does not wack the Battery in the same way a conventional alternator does. 

I found the car system gave a Battery voltage 0.25v lower than a mains charger did.

[Big_D]

We bought our Yaris and then did a 300 mile journey a couple of days after we collected it. It often gets parked for around 8 - 10 days without being used and still starts without any issues. 

At the moment, when we do use it, we travel between 6 and 15 miles at a time. There seems to be no rhyme or reason why the batteries go flat. The car has only a 380GW Dashcam fitted.

[Max_Headroom]

Quote

It often gets parked for around 8 - 10 days without being used and still starts without any issues. 

There is a big difference between often and always, the lack of use during Covid highlighted the problem so if you were to only drive every 8 to 10 days and only a short journey you too would have the same problem. 

[anchorman]

It is no different than charging a mobile phone.  If you keep using it and only give it a partial charge, eventually it will catch you out.  Remember it is time charging and not distance so all taking them for a long drive gets you is running costs.  You can achieve just the same by putting it in READY and not turning a wheel.  You can avoid a flat phone Battery by charging it when not in use - it’s the same principle.  “I never had to do it with my cars from the last 40 years”.  No, well you need to get used to it - stop moaning and get on with it or go back to your trust Austin Maxi “that never broke down”  Yeah, right!!!😉

 

[Nasus]

On 3/9/2022 at 11:31 AM, BarneyBy said:

I am amazed that people are just accepting this problem with these Toyota batteries.My brother has 2021 yaris hybrid and he had no problems with it when bought from new.Driving the same way as before and now Battery will only last 2 days parked up.This should not be happening.In the 1970s I had Skoda coupe could leave it in snow and cold and never refused to start.Car company's know they are having a lot of sub standard batteries, I had to buy new Battery myself after less than 2 years this was not a hybrid car was Seat Ateca.Rise up and look for car makers to supply new Battery.

 

Couldn’t agree more. Why are people going to so much trouble when it’s Toyota who should be dealing with this pervasive issue? Just had Battery issues with the 2 yr old Yaris hybrid I bought 3 months ago. It’s going straight back to the garage. 

[Roy124]

@Big_D

Bob,

There are two factors here. 

You have the car a 5-6 hour run shortly after you bought it.  That brought a new Battery to full capacity. 

Then you regularly drive 6-15 miles.  This is not the right way to consider it.  This could be 12-30 minutes, 6-15 minutes, or even 24-60 minutes. 

Enough 30 minute bites is probably fine.  If your traffic is heavy and your speed lower, that is better. 

[Max_Headroom]

22 minutes ago, Nasus said:

Couldn’t agree more. Why are people going to so much trouble when it’s Toyota who should be dealing with this pervasive issue? Just had battery issues with the 2 yr old Yaris hybrid I bought 3 months ago. It’s going straight back to the garage. 

Toyota are not going to do anything because 99% of hybrid owners drive them more than a couple of times a week and do not do short journeys every time they drive so are not having problems with the 12v Battery,  it is only the infrequent and low mileage drivers who are having issues.

[Cyker]

You're probably right, but I do wish they'd do something - Something simple like what Kia/Hyundai did maybe, as it's not a new problem and while rare in the grand scheme of things, it's common enough that I'm surprised they've continued to ignore it!

For sure it won't happen in any current model, but I'm hoping they think up a clever solution and roll it out to all future models.

 

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

You're probably right, but I do wish they'd do something - Something simple like what Kia/Hyundai did maybe, as it's not a new problem and while rare in the grand scheme of things, it's common enough that I'm surprised they've continued to ignore it!

For sure it won't happen in any current model, but I'm hoping they think up a clever solution and roll it out to all future models.

 

It’s not fair to say the ignore it Cykes. They treat warranty issues as critical concerns so they will either be on with something or they will be educating dealers to assist customers or improving instructions.  

[Dala]

sometimes there are situations that I don't understand
same time, same driving style, same road, driving without headlights on
the first day - the car Battery was not externally charged before driving

the next day - the car Battery is charged with a solar panel before driving

shouldn't this situation be the other way around?

[LesToyota]

Read much of this thread and found it very informative. Some folk have asked about the hybrid Battery placement under rear seats and how to get to it. I came across this video for the Yaris Mk 3.

 

[Derek.w]

Once a Battery has receved some charge its difficult to determin its level of charge straight away best to waight a few hours then check.

Toyota compounded the Battery situation in 3 ways first a small capacity Battery, then a charging system with a lower maximum charge output compered to what we use to altinator charging & the 3 is extra drain on the battery as cars new looking for your keyfob are you in range signal.

[Big_D]

5 hours ago, Roy124 said:

@Big_D

Bob,

There are two factors here. 

You have the car a 5-6 hour run shortly after you bought it.  That brought a new battery to full capacity. 

Then you regularly drive 6-15 miles.  This is not the right way to consider it.  This could be 12-30 minutes, 6-15 minutes, or even 24-60 minutes. 

Enough 30 minute bites is probably fine.  If your traffic is heavy and your speed lower, that is better. 

@Roy124

You are quite right in what you say. The 6-15 miles does take around 20 to 45 minutes, so time, rather than mileage is the critical factor here.

[Derek.w]

On 6/3/2023 at 8:51 PM, LesToyota said:

Read much of this thread and found it very informative. Some folk have asked about the hybrid battery placement under rear seats and how to get to it. I came across this video for the Yaris Mk 3.

 

12 Volt Auxiliary Battery for the MK3 the MK4 come out in 2020 its a diffrent type of 12 volt Battery and the Battery poles are the opposite way round for polarity & its uses a diffrent type of battery clamping arangment.

[Dala]

interesting article "how temperature affects the voltage and capacity of a car battery"

https://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f218/whats-your-batterys-temperature-163735.html

[Stormi]

Hi, my Battery went flat last week, RAC said it was a Battery fault but Toyota insisted that after 13 months this is normal, I had to loose a days pay and drive 50 miles there and back over 2 days for them to re-charge the Battery. I do roughly 1000 per month, (car is 14 months old) waiting on a response from Toyota GB who, along with 2 dealerships say this is not normal performance 

[JohnD2]

F A O   The General Manager, Toyota GB

Sir/Madam

I have recently spent a considerable sum of money on buying one of your cars. The reason for the purchase is to ensure that my wife and I will have reliable transport to our local hospital for routine appointments and possible emergencies. Toyota cars have had a good reputation for reliability.

I now find that my new car, among others from modern stables, has a reputation for not starting after having been left standing for a few days. I now find myself in the LUDICROUS situation of constantly worrying about reliable transport.

Phrases such as ‘Merchantable quality’?, ‘Fit for purpose’, etc come to mind.

 I understand that Kia and Hyundai models have dealt with the problem by fitting some sort of ‘Reset’ button.

What do you intend to do about the problem?

 

John Davis

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

 

11 minutes ago, JohnD2 said:

F A O   The General Manager, Toyota GB

So has this been sent to Toyota GB or just posted on Toyota Owners Club?

Similar topics merged.

[anchorman]

On 6/7/2023 at 5:39 PM, JohnD2 said:

F A O   The General Manager, Toyota GB

Sir/Madam

I have recently spent a considerable sum of money on buying one of your cars. The reason for the purchase is to ensure that my wife and I will have reliable transport to our local hospital for routine appointments and possible emergencies. Toyota cars have had a good reputation for reliability.

I now find that my new car, among others from modern stables, has a reputation for not starting after having been left standing for a few days. I now find myself in the LUDICROUS situation of constantly worrying about reliable transport.

Phrases such as ‘Merchantable quality’?, ‘Fit for purpose’, etc come to mind.

 I understand that Kia and Hyundai models have dealt with the problem by fitting some sort of ‘Reset’ button.

What do you intend to do about the problem?

 

John Davis

 

Dear John. 

The car meets the requirements of merchantable quality and is fit for purpose.   It won’t cause you any problems in normal use so stop reading forums and worry when you’ve got a problem.  

Regards

[MCatPG]

We will be leaving our car unattended for a month, possibly 6 weeks, from late June to late July or early August. No power supply is available so I am going to use a solar panel and controller to charge the 12V Battery. The dealer fitted Optimate leads to the Battery at my request when we bought the car so it's a very simple job - but I need to decide what size of panel to buy. The choice at present is between the Optimate 10W and 20W panels (thanks to @Dala for originally suggesting this arrangement).

Question: Has anyone measured the discharge rate (Watt/hours average per 24 hours) of the 12V Battery? I don't have sufficiently accurate test equipment to do this myself. My best guess is that an Optimate panel with suction pads holding it to the inside of the windscreen, facing due south with an unobstructed view of the southern sky (not east or west), at latitude 50:36N in mid summer will run at 80% capacity for an average of 6 hours per day. I therefore think a 10W panel will produce 48Wh of current per 24 hours, and I think that might be enough. But has anyone measured this?