Flat 12v battery - After 6 days!!

[Deek]

2 hours ago, Davidhee58 said:

I bought a CTEK 5.0 recently, and I  connected the eyelet cable to battery positive pole permanently, the negative cable is connected to cargo hook bolt, and don't need to access the battery terminal every time. and if I want, as eyelet cable is quite small, the connector can be put outside the boot and keep the door locked.

Great thanks... I've got an older Ctek and that's the sort of setup I was thinking about. My one doesn't have an AGM setting so the recommendation is to set to the cold (snowflake) setting. 

[Davidhee58]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

There is always a risk doing so, not that you can’t but if something goes wrong might be expensive repair. 👍

Hi Tony, I am quite confused regarding the jump start point for charging, I thought basically it's same as to connect the charger directly via positive pole and using body chassis as an earth, could you please kindly explain what kind of possible risk it could be? 

[Gray86]

2 hours ago, Davidhee58 said:

Using fuse box jump start point for battery charging is quite controversial, Toyota doesn't recommend it, but people do use it for charging without problem, don't know if there is any risk.

It is the recommended way to jump start a hybrid (by the handbook), and therefore it’s a safe way to apply charge power to the 12v Battery. I’m keen to see something from Toyota that shows this is incorrect, if you have something? 

[Davidhee58]

24 minutes ago, Gray86 said:

It is the recommended way to jump start a hybrid (by the handbook), and therefore it’s a safe way to apply charge power to the 12v battery. I’m keen to see something from Toyota that shows this is incorrect, if you have something? 

Hi Graeme, I agree with you, but when I brought my car to the Toyota dealer to test the Battery, and asked the service adviser if I can use the jump start point in the fuse box to charge the Battery, he said never use it for charging, I still don't understand why it could be risky, I thought basically it's same as the way the charger connects Battery positive pole directly using the body chassis as an earth. the only difference i can think of is that the jump start is a very short time process, for charging the battery, you need to keep the charger connected for a quite long time. 

[Clocky]

Interesting to read all these comments. I may have gone a little overkill here but I’ve ordered the same jump starter as the chap from the RAC used to get my Corolla running again. Pics below of him using it earlier this week. It may prove a waste of money but as a key worker who may need to use the car at short notice, I don’t want the worry of the same issue happening again. Obviously, I just need to actually drive the car too! 

[Mikw]

Received an email today from my local Toyota dealer, where i brought my car from, offering me to buy a solar powered trickly charger - i assume they've had a few enquiries.

[Davidhee58]

52 minutes ago, Mikw said:

Received an email today from my local Toyota dealer, where i brought my car from, offering me to buy a solar powered trickly charger - i assume they've had a few enquiries.

I received the same email as well, and not sure if the solar charger can do proper charge or not, as I heard it may only do float charging.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Parts-King had some solar chargers in stock which I believe were tried on Toyota models without issue. Try sending him a pm detailing your car (reg.no as a minimum) and asking for some details.

[Corolla2004]

I was reflecting on Toyota's advice on hybrids: 'We recommend you put the car in ‘Ready’ mode for about 60 minutes before switching it off again and repeat the process at least once a week'

If the Battery say has capacity of 35Ah and is 1/2 charged; then it will need 17.5Ah of charging. If the charging current in Ready mode is 5A: then that suggest you really need to have it in ready mode for 3.5 hours to fully charge it.

So that says to me if you left your hybrid for some time then you will need to give an initial charge of several hours before you can adopt the 60 minutes a week regime.

[Mooly]

This is very much along the lines of what I was saying yesterday

14 minutes ago, Corolla2004 said:

I was reflecting on Toyota's advice on hybrids: '

More specific information on quiescent discharge current (what is taken when the car is just sitting there) and what the charge rates are is needed.

Also bear in mind that charging is not 100% efficient. To put the 17.5Ah back in your example would take more like 20 to 22Ah  to fully replenish. Charging is far more efficient in the first stage when the Battery draws high current. As that tails off it becomes less so. Figures vary but you can reckon on 60 to 90% efficiency rates depending on the batteries level of charge to begin with.

What is clear to me in all this is that this is a very real issue (given the numbers having problems and even Toyota now sending mail shots out pushing chargers... I received the email this morning)

  

 

[TonyHSD]

Ready mode and solar charging are methods to keep 12v Battery in healthy state not to rejuvenate or restore capacity on dead Battery. Once Battery is made flat only proper charging up to specific parameters and hours can eventually help but with the condition of using the car everyday afterwards, otherwise soon the recharged battery will go flat again. This is for people who use infrequently and on short trips only, the worst of all is not to use the car for weeks. 
 

here is some explanation of how 12v battery system works  in Toyota hybrids 

 

[Auris James]

Anyone know how much the solar charger is?

Be a good way to keep my new Battery topped up once new Battery installed.

James👍

[FROSTYBALLS]

Think Parts-King has the solar charger for £24.99.

[TonyHSD]

Are these solar trickle chargers safe to leave it connected directly to the Battery poles for long periods, 3-4 weeks? Thinking of one when going holiday eventually. , I can’t use standard trickle charger, no facilities for that. 
Thanks 

[john p williams]

33 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Are these solar trickle chargers safe to leave it connected directly to the battery poles for long periods, 3-4 weeks? Thinking of one when going holiday eventually. , I can’t use standard trickle charger, no facilities for that. 
Thanks 

I connected mine to the OBD11 Port on the Lexus while I was in Spain for 3 months.

It was very successful and the car fired up immediately upon my return. I was careful to ensure that the Solar Panel was facing DUE SOUTH so as to collect the maximum amount of sunlight each day.

[Roy124]

Like others I had issues with the Corolla Battery.  I have the car checked in for service and Battery check next month and like others I have just had an email from the garage offering 

Quote

At Toyota, we like to give you total peace of mind. So we recommend buying a 12V battery trickle charger or a solar panel charger to ensure your battery remains fully charged at all times.

However I bought a CTEK MXS 5 last month and have been monitoring the Battery voltage daily.  Before I used the CTEK I was losing about 0.5v/day.  I used the CTEK and ran through its full cycle until it was running as a float charger.  I then disconnected it and deliberately left the car unused and off charge for 12 days.  Battery voltage dropped about 0.5v over the whole period.  So the CTEK certainly seems to work and I shall get the garage to wire the battery charge connections in to the car.  

From the handbook I see it is not necessary to remove or disconnect the battery to recharge it.  I only connected the clips to the battery posts and haven't even found the positive in a fuse box.

 

AFAIK the term Jump Start is wrong.  What your charger or battery pack does is energise the system.  Is that correct?

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, john p williams said:

I connected mine to the OBD11 Port on the Lexus while I was in Spain for 3 months.

It was very successful and the car fired up immediately upon my return. I was careful to ensure that the Solar Panel was facing DUE SOUTH so as to collect the maximum amount of sunlight each day.

Thanks, I may try one then, my driveway gets sunlight half day and should be sufficient  👍 

[Roy124]

Sun don't shine in my garage but I would like to see what it looks like.

[Catlover]

You could always do a search on here Roy, it wasnt too long ago there was a photo of it.

[Catlover]

7 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Ready mode and solar charging are methods to keep 12v battery in healthy state not to rejuvenate or restore capacity on dead battery. Once battery is made flat only proper charging up to specific parameters and hours can eventually help but with the condition of using the car everyday afterwards, otherwise soon the recharged battery will go flat again. This is for people who use infrequently and on short trips only, the worst of all is not to use the car for weeks. 
 

here is some explanation of how 12v battery system works  in Toyota hybrids 

 

He's a good guy, Tony, BUT he takes much too long to get to the main points. 38 min should be about 20.

[FROSTYBALLS]

15 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Sun don't shine in my garage but I would like to see what it looks like.

These are the Ring solar chargers that Parts-King has - £25.99.

See his post of 21st January in the following topic:

Battery weakness in Auris Hybrid - Auris Club - Toyota Owners Club - Toyota Forum

[camellia30]

I just went and had a look at my Battery, it's a Varta 345 LN1-MF 45Ah CCA 286A, no mention of what type of Battery it is on the labels and surprisingly little information to be found on the web.

The manual for my car says 15Amp fast charge, 5Amp slow charge, so I think it is a conventional (albeit maintenance free) lead-acid Battery.

I also looked to see where I could attach a current clamp, the ground connection to the chassis seemed the easiest option as the positive side splits off into 3 cables.

The positive side of the battery is wired straight into a small fuse box that also contains a large relay.

[Roy124]

Frosty, thank you for that.  I see there is a cigarette plug which suggests placing the panels on the dashboard.  However if the cigarette plug is not always live, how would that work?

On my last car my garage fitted a double cigarette socket under the dash one for the Dashcam and one for the Satnav.  Getting an extra socket in a convenient place would seem sensible if you need always live.

[Mooly]

2 hours ago, camellia30 said:

I just went and had a look at my battery, it's a Varta 345 LN1-MF 45Ah CCA 286A, no mention of what type of battery it is on the labels and surprisingly little information to be found on the web.

I suspect the MF part (which is widely used) will be 'Maintenance Free' which means it is essentially a 'sealed' Battery but not necessarily an AGM type. If you take the Battery out and move it around quickly and can hear the electrolyte sloshing around then it is going to be an EFB or enhanced flooded Battery. No sloshing and the battery will be an AGM type with the electrolyte in absorbent matts.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Catlover said:

He's a good guy, Tony, BUT he takes much too long to get to the main points. 38 min should be about 20.

I know but I love watching him, it’s like going back to my student years and always something helpful and new to learn 👍 He has a new video for Tesla P90 rear motor, it’s really cool to watch. Btw Tesla and Prius has very common in between regrading the e motor stator design and magnets placement., other Ev’s and hybrids has slightly different set up.