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Pinking (pre-ignition)


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Hi. Has anyone else experienced 'pinking' in their Aygo? Mine is a 2013 and I've had it since new. I used to run it on standard 95 octane fuel and commute about 90 miles per day, mostly in the the motorway, crossing at less than 60mph. As it got older, I started to find that after coasting down hills, or into the slip road from the motorway, when I picked up the throttle again there would be a definite hesitation and the rattling noise that we used to describe as 'pinking'. In older cars this noise would usually be caused because the timing was too far advanced, and could be adjusted simply by retarding the position of the distributor so that it created the spark later. Obviously modern cars don't have this adjustment (or a mechanical distributor!). I've found that I can reduce the pinking by using higher octane fuel. Super (97 octane) helps, but the best is 99 octane stuff, which is only available from two suppliers.  However, the extra expense seems like a bit of an extravagance for an Aygo and it doesn't completely solve the problem.  Just wondered if anyone else has experienced this problem and how they cured it?

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Try using some fuel system/ fuel injection cleaner maybe you have a build up of carbon in the combustion chamber causing pre ignition although I believe that modern engines now incorporate anti knock sensors that prevent this.

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S

3 minutes ago, Rosgoe said:

Try using some fuel system/ fuel injection cleaner maybe you have a build up of carbon in the combustion chamber causing pre ignition although I believe that modern engines now incorporate anti knock sensors that prevent this.

You have probably checked the condition of the spark plugs ??.

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22 minutes ago, Rosgoe said:

modern engines now incorporate anti knock sensors that prevent this.

I'll second that.

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3 hours ago, Bernard Foy said:

S

You have probably checked the condition of the spark plugs ??.

Yes, I changed the spark plugs and it was better for a very short while, then back to the same. Makes me wonder if the engine management has somehow changed to make it run leaner than it should be. 

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I think it may have to be put on a diagnostic test.

1 hour ago, Garethbr said:

Yes, I changed the spark plugs and it was better for a very short while, then back to the same. Makes me wonder if the engine management has somehow changed to make it run leaner than it should be. 

 

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We own a 2006 model, done 110000 km, it does excatly the same as yours, new plugs cures the problem for a few days, I have also replaced the knock sensor to no effect... I also replaced the intake manfold gasket. The compression is a tad low at 11 bar. The only strange thing I have read from the ECU is the idle ignition timing, the specifications are 0-15 degrees BTCD, ours are at 18 degrees. But since there is no adjustemt to do I have no clue what to do with that information.

Can it be carbon build up in  the cylinder head? Chain stretch causing mistiming?

Greetings from Denmark

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11 hours ago, Carsten Hjorth said:

The only strange thing I have read from the ECU is the idle ignition timing, the specifications are 0-15 degrees BTDC, ours are at 18 degrees.

Timing that far advanced is certainly a real possibility as a cause of pre-ignition.

Chain stretch could certainly be a cause IMHO.

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58 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Chain stretch could certainly be a cause IMHO.

That's what the tensioner is for so, it's not that.

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You could try a Battery disconnect to reset the ECU. It will need to relearn optimum values and will run or at least idle erratically the first time you restart after doing this.

Engines run pretty much up to the point of pre ignition relying on the knock sensor as the means of detecting when this occurs and providing feedback to the ECU.

Does the engine burn Oil at all? 

What you describe is something I experience on the 1.33L Auris and that engine has a reputation for Oil burning. Pre ignition is listed as one of the official symptoms related to that specific issue. Have you given the engine a good high rev run. Don't be afraid to take it to the top of the rev range when you can safely do so, such as hard acceleration in 3rd gear on the motorway. That can help shift any deposits and in fact when I had my Corolla T-Sport the service manager told me one of the biggest problems was drivers not occasionally doing this and also being far to gentle during the initial running in stage.     

 

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2 hours ago, Stivino said:

That's what the tensioner is for so, it's not that.

If the tensioner is in good condition and hasn't reached the end of it's travel...

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So today i replaced the chain with the help of a friend, what a pig of a job... Anyway it has not changed anything. Before we started i used my friends OBD tester and it shoved the BTCD to 9.5, which is well within specs, the chain, guides and tensioner all looked fine so we were almost sure it would not cure the issue. But now there is a new chain in the old girl...

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