Long lead time on Prius

[MyOpinionIsWorthless]

14 minutes ago, Catlover said:

That’s a fair increase, but even if I could afford to switch it wouldn’t make sense.

Can’t really explain it but it does feel more punchy. And the internal changes to the stereo ( buttons and reverse of button location for ease for rh drive) and a much bigger brake light. So no more oops moments from drivers behind. 

[AJones]

4 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Toyota self charging hybrids are the best alternative to all other types of cars including ice, bev and phev and here it is why. 
First - they have one plug only - all you need is to fill up with petrol which doesn’t weight so much as the battery does and can take you on a good 500+ miles drive

The self-charging hybrids are certainly a lot better than typical ICE vehicles because of the improved efficiency and reduced emissions but ultimately they are still a petrol vehicle, with all of the energy coming from petrol either directly or indirectly. They're a good solution until the cost of Battery technology falls, making PHEVs and BEVs more affordable and while the charging infrastructure gets built. 

4 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Second- Toyota sch previously known as (HSD) can stay in ev mode for a long percentage of overall time and this will depend where and how the car been used ( people report 60-80% ev time) it’s amazing achievement without need to plug in 

It's not the time spent driving in EV mode which matters, it's the overall emissions from driving the vehicle because the energy to charge the Battery has come directly/indirectly from the engine, which comes from burning petrol.

If you get 80mpg in a Prius, that is equivalent to 130g CO2 per mile, regardless of how much time is spent in EV mode.

If you get a reasonably efficient EV or PHEV, which can get 4 miles per kWh, then a kWh of electric from the grid last year was on average 181g CO2 per kWh, so at 4 miles/kWh, that's 45g CO2 per mile when driving on grid electric, about a third of the Prius self-charging hybrid. 

The self-charging hybrid driving in electric mode, still has much higher emissions than an EV or PHEV when driving on grid electric.

[MyOpinionIsWorthless]

28 minutes ago, AJones said:

The self-charging hybrids are certainly a lot better than typical ICE vehicles because of the improved efficiency and reduced emissions but ultimately they are still a petrol vehicle, with all of the energy coming from petrol either directly or indirectly. They're a good solution until the cost of battery technology falls, making PHEVs and BEVs more affordable and while the charging infrastructure gets built. 

It's not the time spent driving in EV mode which matters, it's the overall emissions from driving the vehicle because the energy to charge the battery has come directly/indirectly from the engine, which comes from burning petrol.

If you get 80mpg in a Prius, that is equivalent to 130g CO2 per mile, regardless of how much time is spent in EV mode.

If you get a reasonably efficient EV or PHEV, which can get 4 miles per kWh, then a kWh of electric from the grid last year was on average 181g CO2 per kWh, so at 4 miles/kWh, that's 45g CO2 per mile when driving on grid electric, about a third of the Prius self-charging hybrid. 

The self-charging hybrid driving in electric mode, still has much higher emissions than an EV or PHEV when driving on grid electric.

Not sure of your co2 numbers as that mpg in a Prius is 54% ev at the barest minimum so Ice would be emitting 70-80

[TonyHSD]

28 minutes ago, AJones said:

The self-charging hybrids are certainly a lot better than typical ICE vehicles because of the improved efficiency and reduced emissions but ultimately they are still a petrol vehicle, with all of the energy coming from petrol either directly or indirectly. They're a good solution until the cost of battery technology falls, making PHEVs and BEVs more affordable and while the charging infrastructure gets built. 

It's not the time spent driving in EV mode which matters, it's the overall emissions from driving the vehicle because the energy to charge the battery has come directly/indirectly from the engine, which comes from burning petrol.

If you get 80mpg in a Prius, that is equivalent to 130g CO2 per mile, regardless of how much time is spent in EV mode.

If you get a reasonably efficient EV or PHEV, which can get 4 miles per kWh, then a kWh of electric from the grid last year was on average 181g CO2 per kWh, so at 4 miles/kWh, that's 45g CO2 per mile when driving on grid electric, about a third of the Prius self-charging hybrid. 

The self-charging hybrid driving in electric mode, still has much higher emissions than an EV or PHEV when driving on grid electric.

Agreed, yes self charging hybrids are only comparable with standard ice. 👍 
Thank you for the information 👌

[BhxTrev]

7 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Agreed, yes self charging hybrids are only comparable with standard ice. 👍 
Thank you for the information 👌

Since 10.9 kg of CO2 are produced by every gallon of petrol used, (according to CarbonIndependent.org), the more miles a car gets to the gallon the less CO2 the car is overall producing. That’s basically the reason the hybrids like Prius are superior to standard ice vehicles & I agree with you Tony that the emissions have to be compared with them only.

However, there is another factor that has been missed & that is the regeneration of electricity built into hybrids going downhill & using the brakes. The Battery on my Prius gets quickly charged by going down hills & then the energy as you know, can be used to drive the vehicle or even assist the ice in the car. I have no idea how much this also affects the CO2 emissions but it must have a marked effect. I just wonder if anyone has calculated an average CO2 emission figure for the Prius including this regenerated electrical energy?

 

[AJones]

37 minutes ago, MyOpinionnotrespected said:

Not sure of your co2 numbers as that mpg in a Prius is 54% ev at the barest minimum so Ice would be emitting 70-80

Burning petrol emits 2.3 kg CO2 per litre, there's 4.54 litres per gallon, so roughly 10.4 kg CO2 per gallon, if you get 80 miles per gallon then that's 130 grams CO2 per mile. 

 

9 minutes ago, BhxTrev said:

However, there is another factor that has been missed & that is the regeneration of electricity built into hybrids going downhill & using the brakes. The battery on my Prius gets quickly charged by going down hills & then the energy as you know, can be used to drive the vehicle or even assist the ice in the car. I have no idea how much this also affects the CO2 emissions but it must have a marked effect. I just wonder if anyone has calculated an average CO2 emission figure for the Prius including this regenerated electrical energy?

That's already included within the mpg figure. The periods when you drive along on regenerated energy are improving the mpg, to get it up to those high values.

[MyOpinionIsWorthless]

31 minutes ago, AJones said:

Burning petrol emits 2.3 kg CO2 per litre, there's 4.54 litres per gallon, so roughly 10.4 kg CO2 per gallon, if you get 80 miles per gallon then that's 130 grams CO2 per mile. 

 

That's already included within the mpg figure. The periods when you drive along on regenerated energy are improving the mpg, to get it up to those high values.

That’s a fair comment and still under the book quoted 94/km

[Cyker]

I must admit I don't give a flying one about emissions any more - I'm mainly interested in the running costs and the ability of the vehicle to do what it's designed for.

This is what put me off getting an EV and pushed me into a Mk4 Yaris when my hand was forced.

The thing is, if emissions is your primary concern, you have to ask yourself why do you own a car, any car, at all - Bikes or public transport will beat even an EV for CO2 generated per person.

What I need is a small vehicle that can carry me and my gear from site to site at minimum cost, and my old Mk1 D4D and this new Mk4 Hybrid are probably near optimum for that. (Not so much the Mk2 but the less I talk about that the better...!)

 

[BhxTrev]

1 hour ago, AJones said:

Burning petrol emits 2.3 kg CO2 per litre, there's 4.54 litres per gallon, so roughly 10.4 kg CO2 per gallon, if you get 80 miles per gallon then that's 130 grams CO2 per mile. 

 

That's already included within the mpg figure. The periods when you drive along on regenerated energy are improving the mpg, to get it up to those high values.

I’m no expert on how much CO2 is produced per gallon & simply gleaned the quoted figure off the net. I did give a reference to where I got the info. Like Cyker I don’t really care about emissions either, especially when places like China, India & America couldn’t care less & the minute UK could hardly make any difference anyway. My concern like his, is how much it costs me to run my car & until evs become more affordable the hybrid especially the Prius, is what I will choose to drive. 

[TonyHSD]

Same here as the posts above, I am not that much into the emissions thing, although it is good to know that our hybrids are cleaner than standard ice cars. For me most important things when chosen my car were : drivability, efficiency and reliability, plus initial cost of purchase and maintenance throughout its life., Toyota hybrids deliver exactly that best of all. ✌️🚙

[PeteB]

11 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Same here as the posts above, I am not that much into the emissions thing, although it is good to know that our hybrids are cleaner than standard ice cars. For me most important things when chosen my car were : drivability, efficiency and reliability, plus initial cost of purchase and maintenance throughout its life., Toyota hybrids deliver exactly that best of all. ✌️🚙

Safety is near the top my my list!

After years of company cars, in 2000 I took a cash alternative and bought a Yaris.  At 11 months old, a guy who forgot to strap his Labrador to his roof came across a dual carriageway and into my driver's door with an impact speed of 25-30 mph.  He admitted he had his foot firmly to the floor trying to get across ahead of the car behind me, having failed to notice my bright red car, showing dipped headlights (which I always had on before DRLs since the 1980s) in perfect sunny visibility.  It pushed me sideways across 2 lanes then spun me.  The B pillar was about 4 inches inside the car and there was a 4 inch gap between the top of the door and door frame.  However, I was completely uninjured and walked away (admittedly via the passenger door!).

Soon after I bought my first Gen 1 Prius, which I owned for precisely 6 months.  I was in lane 2 going through some traffic lights that had been green for some time and at least half a dozen cars had passed through ahead of me.  We were all doing about 40 mph (the actual speed limit) when someone went through a red light on a road to the left, just missed a BMW in lane one and we met at a whisker under 40.  My best witness was an ambulance crew behind him who told me that after colliding with the front of his car I went airborne and nosedived onto a traffic island, ripping a few sections of railing out of the ground (complete with large lumps of concrete attached to their legs) and flattening a traffic light pole.  Both cars (and quite a bit of street furniture) were written off, but again I emerged uninjured.

If I had been in any of the pre NCAP first 5 cars I owned, manufactured from 1960 to 1980, I would have without a doubt been very badly injured in the first, and almost certainly dead in the second.  In fact, a very experienced crash investigator who took part in a program about the collision that killed princess Diana commented that in the 1960s people sometimes died in crashes at just 10 mph!

The poor Prius did look sorry for itself:

[BhxTrev]

Hi Pete, thanks for your very informative post. It’s reassuring to know how safe Toyota cars are, certainly compared to cars of yesteryear. I can remember driving my first car back in the 1960s, a mini ‘rusting’ like all cars in those days. Those early cars were death traps & its so refreshing that cars today are infinitely safer to drive. I remember Frosty sometime ago posting a link to the very impressive Prius Gen4 safety test. Makes me even more pleased that I drive a Prius. 

[Yugguy1970]

For myself emissions were one of the factors in buying a hybrid.  I didn't go EV as I don't believe its the saviour of mankind it's made out to be.  It should be just part of the solution and I hope hydrogen takes off over the next few years.

Emissions are like many compromises humans use.  Hybrids give us better mpg so we benefit, a byproduct is less emissions.  It's what they call "enlightened self interest" and is why companies care about the environment now, because we do and they still want us to buy their stuff.

I am a great believer in small changes as well.  The cumulative effect of many small changes can be massive.

[Cyker]

@PeteB - Holy **** mate that looks horrific!!  Glad you were unharmed...! I must admit the 5 star safety rating and the zero-intrusion cabin design they have pioneered does help me be a bit less worried I'll be killed in a horrible car accident in spite of witnessing some incredibly awful driving by others!!

 

[JonathanP]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:20 PM, MyOpinionnotrespected said:

Quoted 10 months lead time on ordering a new Prius. 
wow

Well I ordered a Prius Excel back in May, should have arrived in September.
Last update was November, but I'll be surprised as it's still not even started to be built yet and my dealer said that due to HGV driver shortages cars that arrive into the UK are sat in the docks for 3 to 4 weeks before they can even start to move them to the dealers.
At this rate I'm wondering if I will get my car this year. At least the dealer covered the cost of my current car's MOT (on the basis that I should have had my new one, it's the first time in years I have had to have a car MOT).

[Catlover]

Tough it is such a long wait, Jonathan, BUT I think it will be well worth the wait. Keep us all updated please.

[TonyHSD]

Auto trader has a new Prius excel for sale at £34800, a bit on the high side right. These days there are shortages of everything. 

[MyOpinionIsWorthless]

8 hours ago, JonathanP said:

Well I ordered a Prius Excel back in May, should have arrived in September.
Last update was November, but I'll be surprised as it's still not even started to be built yet and my dealer said that due to HGV driver shortages cars that arrive into the UK are sat in the docks for 3 to 4 weeks before they can even start to move them to the dealers.
At this rate I'm wondering if I will get my car this year. At least the dealer covered the cost of my current car's MOT (on the basis that I should have had my new one, it's the first time in years I have had to have a car MOT).

Yup agreed. My delivery has been stretched now to mid August 2022

[MyOpinionIsWorthless]

3 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Auto trader has a new Prius excel for sale at £34800, a bit on the high side right. These days there are shortages of everything. 

We buy any car think mine is worth £20650 go figure

[TonyHSD]

Just before the nonsense prices started I found a 67 plate phev Prius for only £13500, low miles in  excellent condition was thinking to snap on although I don’t need to change yet, could have made few bucks easily now. 

[Chris Dance]

As outlined above the Prius is a safe car. The previous Prius I owned was low mileage and immaculate and was hit on the passenger front side by a Range Rover Defender travelling about 30 miles per hour. The left hand front wheel of my car was flat on the road and the left wing was smashed into the engine compartment. Air bags did not operate. My wife was trapped in the passenger side front seat as the passenger door was bent in. My wife was treated for stress in the ambulance. We both had to go to hospital but no injuries. The car was recovered as ordered by the police to a car pound in North Midlands. Eventually the car was recovered to our local dealers repair centre by Toyota Ins. When the car was assessed it was touch and go as to if it was repairable.  Assessor stated  he was amazed that we had not received major injuries and if had not been a Prius things could have been more serious. Due to the low mileage and condition the car was recovered. Repairs cost £10.000. The front suspension etc was all renewed. The assessor also stated there was no sign that the other car had braked before hitting my car.  The damage had been caused by a car travelling at a fair speed. When I PX that car because all repairs had been carried out by Toyota the dealer said the repair had no effect on the PX price.

Local dealer is keen to PX my Gen 4 Prius. He also informed that if I ordered a new Prius it would have a long lead time. My car has very low mileage and is immaculate so can see no point in exchanging it.

[JonathanP]

On 9/30/2021 at 11:14 AM, JonathanP said:

Well I ordered a Prius Excel back in May, should have arrived in September.
Last update was November, but I'll be surprised as it's still not even started to be built yet and my dealer said that due to HGV driver shortages cars that arrive into the UK are sat in the docks for 3 to 4 weeks before they can even start to move them to the dealers.
At this rate I'm wondering if I will get my car this year. At least the dealer covered the cost of my current car's MOT (on the basis that I should have had my new one, it's the first time in years I have had to have a car MOT).

So the last update was that the order is now in 'build' phase and estimated the end of Nov.
Checking my own MyT order tracking it still shows processing, so not sure that end of Nov is possible as I can't see it entering the build phase and it takes a good few weeks to ship from Japan.
I'm starting to wonder if it gets into next year before delivery, do I hold off collection for the 22 plate.

[cviclark]

My Prius is also 5 years old next month. For obvious reasons I looked at going for the PHEV Prius. Tried three phone calls and online request with no reply from sales. Eventually got to speak to the sales manager. Nothing available until at least May. 

The only PHEV available is the RAV. 5 new models in the pipeline but no details as to Hybrid or and PHEV or when.

The good news is I love my car. It is on 15" wheels  Cross climates Cat lock fitted and all the features I want. Still have not used the self park but it's there if needed. Front and rear Dashcam bonnet spoiler keeping the chips away, no road tax so I am in a sweet spot. I buy maintenance up front and have just been told my warranty will be extended at the next service. The only problem I had was with the bolster on the drivers seat, and it was changed under warranty.  I guess its good for another 5 tax free years. 

[Catlover]

53 minutes ago, cviclark said:

on the drivers seat, and it was changed under warranty.  I guess its good for another 5 tax free years. 

 Would like to agree with you Ian, but I think maybe the government will make a grab on zero tax vehicles to get some money back in the coffers

[TonyHSD]

23 minutes ago, Catlover said:

 Would like to agree with you Ian, but I think maybe the government will make a grab on zero tax vehicles to get some money back in the coffers

I don’t think they will change the tax on already registered cars, has it happened before, I am not aware of., perhaps on new electric cars yes.