Jump to content
Do Not Sell My Personal Information


Replacement Clutch for Semi Automatic gear box


PerryW
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi, I'm faced with an excessive charge from Toyota to replace the clutch , actuator and flywheel of my 2012 Toyota Aygo. The car has done 40K miles and started beeping when accelerating and revving up between gear changes. It's apparently an MMT gear box and although its only done 40K Toyota are saying these parts wear out even if they are not used much and so as its 10 years old they are trying to justify the £1,900 charge. I have spoken to several automatic gear box specialist garages and they say they are unable to do the work because of something to do with actuator needing to be reprogrammed after replacing the clutch.

I seriously believe Toyota are lying about the need to replace the actuator and flywheel along with the clutch. They initially quoted in the region of £900 for the clutch replacement when booking it in but have now said as above after checking the car.

Can anyone please help with any suggestions as I cannot pay £1,900 for a car that only cost me £6k a couple of years ago and is probably worth little more than the repair cost now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Just had a call from them and they said;

The actuator has gone faulty and scored the flywheel and there are burn marks on the flywheel and this has to be replaced. They can reuse the clutch plates but there are heat marks on the clutch cover and that needs replacing. He said the actuator is an expensive park and for the £1,900 they are not even adding labour on. He said its the actuator thats at fault and it is not engaging the gears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The automatic gearbox you have, MMT, is not a “normal” auto box and that is why “several automatic gearbox specialist garages” are not touching it. What you have is a standard manual gearbox BUT instead of you pushing the foot operated clutch down and changing gear by hand the gearchange is automated with arms computer controlled doing the changing instead of you.            
Do a search in the Aygo and Yaris sections of this forum and you will read of more then a few members who have had problems with their MMT auto boxes. It is common that users have endured problems when actually out on the road, often putting them in potentially dangerous situations.             
If you do not want a Toyota dealer to do the job you would be better to find an independent garage with possibly a trained Toyota mechanic, personally it is not a job that you can give to any garage - as you have already found out.

Note - Toyota dealers are independent of Toyota, that is why Frostyballs refers to “the dealer” - not Toyota (the manufacturer).        
 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a pain - You need a second opinion, but finding someone else who deals with such a gearbox can be tricky. Most garages avoid them as they aren't trained and don't want to risk being liable if they bugger it up.

I know there are some specialists who deal with these kind of semi-auto gearboxes, but the ones I'm aware of specifically deal with VW-type DSG gearboxes and not the single clutch Toyota MMTs.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Yes, second or even third opinion from another garages and quotes and if everywhere prices are that high perhaps may ask your insurance to scrap the car and you pay only the excess fee and move on. This aygo mmt  are full stop but some people doesn’t know about that until they find out the hard way, then they will never return to the same make although Toyota offers the best and most reliable automatic transmission in their hybrids. The problem with mmt is that it’s not covered under warranty as those parts are classed as consumables similar to the brake pads ,, although early premature failures might be covered but that’s another topic. The other problems with these gearboxes is that many third party warranty excluded mmt dsg actuator as they know these are problematic and usually are failing often. Kia/Hyundai auto transmission also full stop , they have clutch packs that cost excess of £3500 to replace and months of waiting time for the parts to arrive from Korea. For all people looking for a small automatic car look for Toyota hybrid or full electric, anything else it’s nothing but trouble. 👍

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Get it out of there, the flywheel can be skimmed if needed or replaced for under £100 - clutch is around £120 for the kit

auto specialist tend not to deal with them, as in essence is a manual gearbox

there is nothing complex about initializing the gearbox - it can be done without the need of a scan tool

 

INF12215_GB.pdf

I can't see how an actuator has scored the flywheel if the clutch is ok and can be reused

there is a common issue when the sensor in the clutch actuator goes bad - the ecu will not see the clutch position, so it will not engage the clutch or select a gear

A recon clutch actuator is around £300-400 or you can get the sensor for £40 and the motor for £100

 

put it this way, you can swap the gearbox for under £1000 if needed (used) what i doubt

 

Have they given you any error codes ?

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

The problem with mmt is that it’s not covered under warranty as those parts are classed as consumables similar to the brake pads

What utter nonsense. It is this erroneous opinnion that is oft quoted (then repeated by others) and treated as fact on forums. I couldn’t disagree more with this statement. The MMT IS covered by Toyota and the Toyota Extended Warranty.

I know, because I have posted my experience on this very forum of claiming for MMT faults…not once but three times. And I’ll do it a fourth time by this time next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's not all wrong surely? It would depend on which part of the MMT is the fault - I would imagine the wearing parts of the MMT (e.g. the pressure plate, clutch etc) would not be covered under warranty any more than they would in a normal manual gearbox, but if the bell housing cracked or the ECU popped those should definitely be covered as that's not normal expected wear and tear.

I'm not sure what the actuator is in this context - If that's like a CSC/release bearing then I would also imagine that wouldn't be covered for the same reason, but if that's like some sort of computer controlled release fork or something then it isn't a wearing part and definitely should be covered under warranty...

Also, while googling around I found these which may be worth giving a call by the OP:

https://www.ecutesting.com/common-faults/toyota/toyota-mmt-clutch-actuator-fault/

https://bba-remanshop.com/gb/product/toyota-yaris-clutch-actuator-repair/

The second one says Yaris but still might be worth a call as the Yaris MMT is very similar to the Aygo MMT. BBA-Reman were featured in a couple episodes of the Edd-era Wheeler Dealers so they should be legit; The first link I don't know from Adam :laugh: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyker the entire MMT box is covered. It does not matter whether it is the clutch, actuator, assembly or some other part. Ask yourself this question:

As a driver of such a car please can you tell me how I can cause or contribute to the premature wear of those parts?

You could say, oh but if you keep your foot on the brake pedal when stationary at lights that causes premature wear, or if you do excessive hill starts, or perhaps if you’re driving in slow moving traffic and it’s shifting 1 - 2 - 1…that may be so, but does the handbook advise to drive differently? Was this mentioned at the time you bought the car? Was any different or special consideration made clear that the MMT would not be fit for purpose for such driving?

ProTip: it doesn’t.

So ask yourself how you, as driver, can be held responsible for the premature wear or excessive use? You can’t. Therefore if it ain’t down to you, then it must be a manufacturing issue/failure.

To date neither the Dealer, Toyota GB or the extended warranty company have been able to demonstrably show why, when the clutch, actuator or whatever fails, this would not be covered by warranty…and this is why I have choose to have the Toyota Extended Warranty. My repair turnaround is, on average, 2 days. Hassle factor? Zip. Cost? Well let’s just say I am ahead on all my warranty costs over the years.

I accept the MMT can be fragile and given what it is and difficult to try and get fixed outside of the Toyota network. But when it works it is amazingly easy pleasant to drive and makes the Aygo an absolute HOOT to drive…but if you buy one, get the Toyota Extended Warranty for peace of mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


1 hour ago, ihpj said:

What utter nonsense. It is this erroneous opinnion that is oft quoted (then repeated by others) and treated as fact on forums. I couldn’t disagree more with this statement. The MMT IS covered by Toyota and the Toyota Extended Warranty.

I know, because I have posted my experience on this very forum of claiming for MMT faults…not once but three times. And I’ll do it a fourth time by this time next year.

Thanks for sharing your opinion and experience. I did also shared mine and although you believe it’s utter nonsense I believe it’s not. I am also happy for you that you had claimed successfully on your warranty but some other people weren’t lucky enough to have same outcome and had to pay crazy money for repairs. In fact that you have to go through all that hassle with mmt problems not once but few times, no offence but I will never recommend to anyone buying a car that has mmt transmission, no Toyota, no Mercedes, nothing. Flash has given already best advice how to get it sorted, with some luck and good mechanics the op can get his car back on the road for less. 👍

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TonyHSD we aren’t talking about recommending or the merits of the MMT, instead repairability. I apologise for my passion and words used.

Despite my experience with it, I would recommend the MMT but caveat this with make sure you invest in the Toyota Extended Warranty. People’s default reaction to warranty can be very negative, but do the maths. I did and I bought it purely for the MMT. The warranty works out £170-odd per year, take out the MOT cost (£45) it then makes even more sense and has zero excess.

My experience may sound like I have had hassle, but as I said in my follow up post, the repair time is about 2 days and painless.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've now found a local garage who say they have done them before and have the software to do it. They have quoted around £550 but the issue is the Toyota dealer has the gearbox off and want me to pay their labour charge for the work so far. This is never explained to me there would be a cost to diagnose the fault and I have refused to pay to which they have said they won't release the car back to me. Does anyone know where I stand legally on having to pay labour costs to diagnose the car if I don't go ahead with the repair?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Presumably they wouldn't be able diagnose the issues without some labour involved. Did you sign anything when you dropped the car off? If you did, this probably gave them permission to undertake work on the car - and also would have included labour costs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you authorize the work to remove the gearbox ? Or just diagnose the issue, pay the charge and dispute it later and take them to small claims the stealerships need to prove that the work/parts was required - was the clutch replacement performed ?? As first requested ??

 

Your main priority is to get your car back on the road

 

14 hours ago, ihpj said:

Despite my experience with it, I would recommend the MMT but caveat this with make sure you invest in the Toyota Extended Warranty. People’s default reaction to warranty can be very negative, but do the maths. I did and I bought it purely for the MMT. The warranty works out £170-odd per year, take out the MOT cost (£45) it then makes even more sense and has zero excess.

My experience may sound like I have had hassle, but as I said in my follow up post, the repair time is about 2 days and painless.

 

The OP's car is 9 years old an extended warranty is either inclusive or exclusive and will usually exclude things like clutches and electrical, mmt actuators being classed as electrical, electrical diagnostics are usually excluded as well

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ihpj - It all depends on the terms of the warranty - If it includes all that then fair enough, but just because you don't have direct control over over something that may die early because of 'excessive wear' doesn't automatically make it covered by warranty. By that logic, the brake pads on my Mk4 Yaris should be covered by warranty because I have no control over whether they are used or not, as it's all brake-by-wire and the car decides how whether to use regen or the friction brakes, but I doubt there is a warranty in the world what would cover those!

If the warranty doesn't exclude those things then sure go for it, but I find most warranties exclude things that are considered wearing parts. I'd be surprised if the clutch etc in the MMT weren't counted as wearing parts as they definitely aren't designed to last the life of the car!

 

@PerryW - For any diagnostics the standard Toyota dealer diagnostic fee is a flat £130-£150; They should have made that clear when you brought the car to them. Is that what they're trying to hit you up for? If so I'd just pay it. Anything more than that they have to get explicit authorization from you - They can't just go and do more stuff and hit you up for it afterwards. You may need to bring the issue to the ombudsman if that's what's up.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...




Forums


News


Membership