Should I get my clutch checked?

[hayleyquinnx]

Hello, I'm a new driver and my 2014 Aygo X Play is my first car but I've known for years I wanted an aygo. I did my test in it yesterday and it went really well except for the fact that I kept stalling it, it was stalling that actually cost me the pass which was SO frustrating as the examiner said I only had 6 minors unrelated to stalling before I finally stalled again on a roundabout in the last 5 minutes. 

Anyway, I know Aygos are notorious for their very high bite point but I've never had issues stalling any of the cars I've learnt in so I know it's just getting used to this clutch, but my partner who's been driving for 12 years has also stalled it a few times too so I was wondering if before my next test I should get it looked at? It's had one previous owner who from what I can gather was probably quite young (the bluetooth connected to my phone as "the matt mobile" so I can totally envision a 19 year old cruising round mcdonalds in it lol), I'm 28 so definitely not trying to race folk in my little aygo lol.

It passed its MOT but I don't think they check the clutch in that so I was curious about how I would know if the bite point is just really high and I need to get used to it still (driven it for about 12-15 hours total I think?) or if the clutch might have been worn out by its previous owners. 

For the sake of making it easier for my next test would anyone recommend I get someone to lower the bite point or is that not recommended? 

Go easy on me, I'm aware it could just be that I need to get used to this car, I'm just conscious I've never had this much trouble with stalling in other petrol cars, but I'm aware this could just be something I have to practice so please don't think I'm blaming the car! Just want to make sure I'm giving myself the best chance next time! 

Thanks everyone 🙂

[haelewyn]

Lowering the bite point is not recommended as that could lead to an adjustment that wears out the clutch more;

For your test  :  Switch off the airco for sure. If it's on, the car will be more easy to stall. That's a general remark I make here, imho valid for all cars.
Not from Aygo specific experience.

Try to get used to revving the car a bit, up to 1000-1800 rpm more or less. Drive the car a bit longer before your test and get used to the high biting point of the clutch pedal.
Expecially you would need to train on revving more in case you were driving a diesel before as a driving school vehicle.
Diesels are difficult to stall. Petrol cars are easy to stall.

Just to be sure:  get somebody to have a look at if it is slipping or not (the clutch). If that is not the case : don't make more effort. You just need to adapt.

[hayleyquinnx]

11 minutes ago, haelewyn said:

Lowering the bite point is not recommended as that could lead to an adjustment that wears out the clutch more;

For your test  :  Switch off the airco for sure. If it's on, the car will be more easy to stall. That's a general remark I make here, imho valid for all cars.
Not from Aygo specific experience.

Try to get used to revving the car a bit, up to 1000-1800 rpm more or less. Drive the car a bit longer before your test and get used to the high biting point of the clutch pedal.
Expecially you would need to train on revving more in case you were driving a diesel before as a driving school vehicle.
Diesels are difficult to stall. Petrol cars are easy to stall.

Just to be sure:  get somebody to have a look at if it is slipping or not (the clutch). If that is not the case : don't make more effort. You just need to adapt.

Thank you, I'm giving it about 2-2.5 revs at the moment in 1st to move off which I know seems a bit overkill but quite often I'll stall if I don't give it that many beans. 

I was driving a petrol before when learning, but a diesel before that (pandemic cut my lessons short) so I know the diesel to petrol transition painfully well as at first in my instructors car I stalled a lot but then got used to it in after a few weeks. I've had this car since July and thinking about it have probably done more that 15 hours really, and I'm still not improving on the clutch it doesn't feel like, I've spent a lot of time practicing too so it's a bit frustrating. 

Good tip on the aircon, though you can't have it on during tests due to covid, just gotta have the windows cracked open instead which is fine. 

I haven't got anything in the service history after 2018 after the warranty is out and the car didn't come with a FSH book upsettingly so I've no way to know if the clutch has ever been replaced since it was manufactured, and I know they won't test that on MOTS so I'm a bit blind on its service history post warranty. 

I know the previous owners likely didn't do a lot with the car as the Mot history shows the same advisory for years until it eventually became a dangerous failure and they had to get the brakes fixed, so I suspect they weren't actively maintaining it like I'd prefer to. 

Clutch checks are free at a place near me and I also think the handbrake is a bit worn as it can roll with it up so if its free anyway I may as well put my mind at ease and at least eliminate it as something to worry about! Either I can stop worrying and focus on practicing or I can potentially fix something that might make it a bit easier to stall less 😛 I think if it wasn't for more experienced drivers also stalling it a good few times I'd probably think it was just me!

Thank you for your advice about not lowering it also, I'll leave that alone and just make sure it's in working order.

[Red_Corolla]

Get a mechanic to check the clutch cable adjustment. As the clutch wears, the cable has to reach a little bit further, which results in the slack disappearing and then the bite point becomes high because the cable is too tight.

I can't guarantee that that's your issue but it's definitely worth checking. It's a quick and simple adjustment if that's what it turns out to be. It should be done as part of a service on any car that has a manually adjusted clutch cable.

[haelewyn]

How many miles does the car have ?

Maybe you can train yourself a bit too on a small hill / incline.
Park and try to leave without jerking the car.
Once you mastered that well, you will do fine on roundabouts.

Start by lifting up your foot more than halfway first.. the first 50 percent of lifting your foot up, nothing will happen anyway.
Then start with lifting it up 70 times as in my car, there is only something happening the last 5 or max 10 percent.
That is just the point in an Aygo. The clutch bites really very high. Can't become more than what it does now in my car.

But seeing a mechanic you trust is never bad... Just don't visit one who will talk you into getting a new clutch if it's not necessary at all.

[Billyboy81]

The Aygo clutch is like an off\on switch with very little damping. You will get used to it. I've been driving for 45 years and never had any problems stalling a car before the Aygo. Just raise the clutch until you feel it biting the give it some revs as you let it go.

[Cyker]

It's hard to say as I found the Aygo really hard to drive at first when I had one as a courteys car - I was used to the biting point being dead centre of the pedal travel in my Yaris, so having it so high threw me - I couldn't tell if I was still on the biting point or had actually fully released it!  

Took me a while to get used to it, and I was still stalling it now and then before I got my Yaris back!

Unless you're launching quite quickly, 2-2.5k should be more than enough revs to gently and smoothly engage the clutch without stalling (Steep hills and ruts notwithstanding!), so if it's still stalling at that kind of revs it might be worth getting it checked just in case...

One thing to try is find a gentle and quiet hill with no traffic, one steep enough the car will roll back on its own but not super steep, and park facing uphill. Hold the car at 2000rpm, then take up the slack on the clutch and disengage the handbrake. Use the clutch to hold the car stationary for a second, then feed it more to creep up a few car lengths, then back off the clutch and let the car slow down until it stops, and balance it at a stop on the clutch for a second, then release it a bit and roll back down a few car lengths, then feed more in to stop it without using the brake - This is the hard bit and you may stall it; Don't worry!, if successful, hold for a second, then either way engage the handbrake and go back to neutral. You shouldn't need to use the brakes at any point, except at the end, when you get the hang of it.

My instructor made me do this to practice clutch control and I find it's a good way to get a good feel of the car and its clutch. It's all about learning how to balance a tremendous amount of power with mostly your left foot! It's why I believe manual drivers are better than auto drivers, as auto drivers never learn this skill.

Don't do it repeatedly in one session as you'll overheat the clutch, but it's a good way to practice clutch control, esp. getting independent foot control, as holding the car at 2000rpm with one foot while doing delicate clutch movement with the other like that can take some practice!

 

[steveo3002]

me and my partner have been driving 30+ years each and both found it took a bit of getting used to , theyre not the easiest clutch to use

worth getting the cable adjustment checked 

[PetrolDave]

20 hours ago, hayleyquinnx said:

I also think the handbrake is a bit worn as it can roll with it up

That should have been picked up at the MOT and the handbrake cable adjusted.

When I got my Mk 1 in 2010 (it was a 2008 model) I too fund it very easy to stall so I spent some time learning where the biting point was by parking with the handbrake on and feeling the biting point of the clutch by slowing easing up on the clutch pedal with the engine doing around 1500rpm until the car just moved against the handbrake. I found this stopped me stalling as much.

[haelewyn]

Does anybody know in fact why the clutch manipulation is the way it is ?
Why does it grab / bite so high ?  What did they do that they were not able to change (being seen as a bad design by many) for many years ?

What did they save money on to make it like this ?   Personally, I have no idea where the difference is in this clutch system compared to an other one. What would be needed to make it function like on any other car that has a bite around the middle ?

Does this system have a 2 mass flywheel ? I guess not as it's a cheaper car and they would save on that  ?

[Cyker]

I've often wondered that too - Clearly they could make it better as the Yaris one is dead centre, but for some reason it's never been addressed in the entire run of the Aygo!

It doesn't have a DMF - Those were mostly limited to diesels and some high-CC luxury petrols. Thankfully. (That's the other thing aside from the DPF that absolutely murdered the reliability of diesels)

[haelewyn]

The question that remains in my mind too is if the way the clutch works does contribute to the entire clutch system / disc wearing out prematurely.

 

If it was like that, I am even more surprised Toyota never changed the entire setup.

[PetrolDave]

12 hours ago, haelewyn said:

The question that remains in my mind too is if the way the clutch works does contribute to the entire clutch system / disc wearing out prematurely.

My experience is that I've only had premature clutch wear when my Mk 1 had the (superceded  in 2008 with the 190mm) 180mm clutch.

[haelewyn]

That indeed is a positive thing to keep in mind.

[haelewyn]

Had the car for one month now ..
Dear Lord , I only drove it for 410 km. And then I still added some kilometers cause i wanted to drive the new thing.

What I keep on thinking is that the clutch is more difficult to use when the car is cold compared to when the engine is warmed up.

Especially when cold, it seems to me that the difference between revving it up to 3000 rpm or more to making it stall is soooo little.
Which makes me think : no wonder people burn clutches with this car.

Do you guys agree or have an other opinion ? Is it me just needing more exercise with the car ?

[bobby boy]

I think regular clutch adjustment check is critical on the Aygo and it's Peugeot/Citroen siblings. If correct free play is maintained and driven correctly should give a long life. Not many modern cars have adjustable clutches, and I think modern mechanics often fail to check them at service time.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Never had an issue with the clutch in our Aygo - biting point or otherwise.

[fordulike]

I agree with Mike, never had a problem with mine. I do agree with you about the high biting point, but I remedied that by adjusting my seat slightly further back than other cars I've driven.

[Catlover]

I can’t remember having a problem operating the clutch when I was driving the wife’s C1. Good coordination between left and right foot does it, without excessive revs nor slipping.

[DusanCZ]

14 hours ago, haelewyn said:

Souhlasíte, nebo máte jiný názor? Potřebuji jen více cvičit s autem?

That's right, learn to control and coordinate the accelerator and clutch pedals well. Recently, my wife bought a new Aygo and I, who drive lifetime cars from VW AG, so I had to learn to gently operate the Aygo and its clutch again.

[haelewyn]

I'm gonna stop nagging about the clutch now .  . .   🙂

Will just try to get used to it.

Free play : in my opinion there is none ... but still some (rather high) resistance part that does nothing

[DusanCZ]

15 hours ago, haelewyn said:

Stále mě napadá, že spojka se obtížněji ovládá, když je auto studené, než když je motor zahřátý.

 

Yes, with the Ayga's cold engine, the engine control unit adds itself to idle speed until the catalytic converter warms up and, for models from 2018, the EGR valve also warms up. Therefore, until the idle speed drops to the normal value after about 1 minute, coordination of the clutch and the increased throttle at idle is difficult.

[haelewyn]

Good to know I didn't imagine that 🙂

I thought it's me not being able how to drive in the first part of a ride and later , having learned fast 🙂

 

[Puglet]

Agree with many of above, never had an issue with our similar 107's clutch and driving, then again remember my first car Vauxhall Chevette few people who drove it said it had a vicious clutch, but I drove it ok. Then again, when my sister got her Toyota engined 108 she struggled at first, but after a few months she was fine.

[Wiz201]

It could be test nerves as well that contributed to the stalling, you may have been unknowingly trying to rush and that can affect your clutch performance. I did try driving manual in numerous tests before going to automatic and just passing as an automatic driver. I know this won't help you, so just try driving the test as if the examiner isn't there and take your time.