12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Dala]

Today I made another measurement:

The car did not drive for 2 days, Battery test before today's ride:
before pressing the POWER switch - 12.1V
"ACCESSORIES" - 11.8V
“IGNITION ON” - 11.6V

90 minutes in the morning without lights:
10 minutes of 14.4V charging
80 minutes charging 12.8V

evening drive 50 minutes with lights:
50 minutes of 14.4V charging

Another solution is to drive only with the lights on
: -DD

 

[Roy124]

Dala, that 12.1v might have been a drop about 0.5v.

Try measuring each morning for a number of days without switching on. 

[Dala]

- if smart charging in the yaris charges the car Battery only 12.8 V for 80% of the ride + consumption of parasitic current,
this way the car Battery can never be recharged to 100%

- the car Battery voltage is also affected by the outside temperature

 

[Cyker]

Huh, that's interesting... thanks for your data gathering so far!

[BarneyBy]

The good news is Toyota have replaced the Battery in my brothers Yaris Hybrid.But he is still unsure every morning whether in the morning it will start.So far all good.

[TonyHSD]

55 minutes ago, BarneyBy said:

The good news is Toyota have replaced the Battery in my brothers Yaris Hybrid.But he is still unsure every morning whether in the morning it will start.So far all good.

If you are not a regular user of the car you can buy something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B093V384KK?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_BTXY3Q0ZCZ75CKB6DV5K, plug it in and you can monitor Battery voltage easily, once you see voltage drops below  11v while the car is in starting process you can hook up external Battery charger like ctek 5 for example and leave it connected for as long as the charger needs to fully charge your Battery. Doing so once a month and most likely you will never have to worry about flat battery again. 👍

[Dala]

I also recommend
I use a similar voltmeter
it is not possible to know the voltage value when starting the hybrid - it is very fast
but it can be found out via "ACCESSORIES" and "IGNITION ON"
I bought a Battery tester to find out the starting voltage
It is also possible to test the connected car Battery in the car

[russd1971]

On 2/5/2022 at 12:50 PM, Catlover said:

Photos of the CTEX 5. This is what you get in the box, including a bag to put the unit in.

The crocodile clips go across the connection battery terminals, but as the 12v battery in a Yaris hybrid is under the rear set the 2nd connectors may be more suitable. They permananlty screw into the battery terminals and out of the seat somewhere where it can be tucked up when not in use. On the main CTEK 5 unityou can choose what program you want ie motorcycle or car, AGM battery, Recon option. Easy to use, 8 steps in total.

The battery in a Yaris Hybrid is under the rear seat (in the passenger area) so is an AGM type

Thanks for posting the photos of this. The only thing that slightly concerns me is that in the manual it says "If recharging with the 12-volt Battery installed on the vehicle, be sure to disconnect the ground cable." I presume that this is to isolate the Battery and is pretty standard when charging any Battery in situ, and people charge their batteries like that all the time. But is it actually not that important to worry about?

Did you install the eyelet connectors and have you had any problems recharging with a CTEK? Pretty sure this is the route I would go down if the above isn't an issue.

I can see in the new manual they show an access door to unscrew under the rear seat without requiring lifting the actual seat. However, I'm not sure how easy it would be to attach the eyelet connectors without lifting the seat?

[Roy124]

I have used the eyelets on my Corolla.  The garage has not commented. 

[forkingabout]

27 minutes ago, russd1971 said:

Thanks for posting the photos of this. The only thing that slightly concerns me is that in the manual it says "If recharging with the 12-volt battery installed on the vehicle, be sure to disconnect the ground cable." I presume that this is to isolate the battery

Its both to isolate the Battery from the vehicle electrical system BUT more likely a safety instruction so the vehicle cannot be accidently driven of with it still connected to the charger & mains.

FWIW: Forklifts & scissor lifts etc that have on board Battery chargers have a safety circuit built in to prevent it driving away with the mains plug still connected to the electrical supply. 

[APS]

27 minutes ago, russd1971 said:

"If recharging with the 12-volt battery installed on the vehicle, be sure to disconnect the ground cable." I presume that this is to isolate the battery and is pretty standard when charging any battery in situ, and people charge their batteries like that all the time. But is it actually not that important to worry about?

I guess they err on the side of caution as they don't know what kind of power source you will use to charge the car. The CTEKs are very gentle. I have used them on both old and modern cars without disconnecting - no problems.  

[russd1971]

Thanks for the replies. Is it fairly easy to connect to the eyelets? Is it best to lift the back seat rather than relying on just the access hatch underneath the seat? Just wondered if you need to disconnect the Battery to attach them or if you can just add them over the connectors. Would be very interested see a picture with them install on the Battery themselves.

[Starensis]

Can we confirm if flat batteries are keyless cars or is it happening to Icon and Design spec - standard mechanical key?

[Jasper.]

Hi Russ , 

I recently fitted the Ctek ring terminal leads to my Yaris and had to lift the seat base to gain access to the Battery terminals. It lifts with a very firm 'yank' and I thought I was going to break something when doing it but it was all good. 

I also had to remove part of the insulation from the positive terminal in order to get to the Battery post , this is like a Chinese puzzle but is easy enough after a little head scratching. 

I then carefully undid each Battery terminal and slipped the ring terminal under the nut and tightened it back up. 

Take great care when doing the positive terminal not to short it out with the spanner though.

Then fiddle the plastic insulation piece back over the positive terminal  , from memory I had to remove a small piece of it with a Stanley knife so it fit nicely with the ring terminal in place.

I then cut a 46mm hole in the black plastic seat base trim to allow access to the charging plug without dismantling the seat to use the charger and purchased a black silicone rubber bung from eBay to fill this hole when not in use.

I hope this helps....

 

[Jasper.]

3 minutes ago, Starensis said:

Can we confirm if flat batteries are keyless cars or is it happening to Icon and Design spec - standard mechanical key?

Mines an Excel so keyless.

[Starensis]

6 minutes ago, Jasper. said:

Mines an Excel so keyless.

I know on keyless cars, there is a setting where the car will search for the key signal for a default of 5 days. This can contribute to 12v Battery depletion. On my keyless C-HR, I’ve changed that setting to 2 days via Carista and never had an issue with Battery.

Would be interesting to understand if all these issues are on keyless spec cars. Ours is a Design spec, so mechanical key/fob which is passive.

[Cyker]

Yeah I think that would be an interesting experiment too as I also suspect a large part of the problem is the higher passive current draw of the keyless-enabled cars, but there's not much data to compare the two.

I haven't experienced it yet, even when I left my lights on all day a few weeks back, so I also suspect it's partly due to lack of use (Whereas I use mine a lot, so the Battery has much more opportunity to charge), plus the slower 'smart' charging rate of the DC-DC system vs a dumb high-rpm alternator.

 

[IT Troll]

The Yaris Cross manual says that after 14 days of inactivity, smart entry will automatically reduce to just the driver’s door in order to save Battery. Additionally, it is possible to completely disable smart entry through infotainment settings so that the handle sensors and receiver do not leech power. The trouble is, this then means you have to hold the key-fob against the push button in order to start.

Being able to customise the smart entry power saving setting would be a good compromise (not listed on Carista yet).

[russd1971]

2 hours ago, Jasper. said:

Hi Russ , 

I recently fitted the Ctek ring terminal leads to my Yaris and had to lift the seat base to gain access to the battery terminals. It lifts with a very firm 'yank' and I thought I was going to break something when doing it but it was all good. 

I also had to remove part of the insulation from the positive terminal in order to get to the battery post , this is like a Chinese puzzle but is easy enough after a little head scratching. 

I then carefully undid each battery terminal and slipped the ring terminal under the nut and tightened it back up. 

Take great care when doing the positive terminal not to short it out with the spanner though.

Then fiddle the plastic insulation piece back over the positive terminal  , from memory I had to remove a small piece of it with a Stanley knife so it fit nicely with the ring terminal in place.

I then cut a 46mm hole in the black plastic seat base trim to allow access to the charging plug without dismantling the seat to use the charger and purchased a black silicone rubber bung from ebay to fill this hole when not in use.

I hope this helps....

 

Thanks for the info... So you disconnected the Battery as part of the process... Did everything to start as normal after reconnection, or were there any problems (such as having to set up the trip computer etc)?

[Starensis]

9 hours ago, IT Troll said:

The Yaris Cross manual says that after 14 days of inactivity, smart entry will automatically reduce to just the driver’s door in order to save battery. Additionally, it is possible to completely disable smart entry through infotainment settings so that the handle sensors and receiver do not leech power. The trouble is, this then means you have to hold the key-fob against the push button in order to start.

Being able to customise the smart entry power saving setting would be a good compromise (not listed on Carista yet).

I’m not sure if the Yaris has that setting either. Used Carista on our Design spec ( non-keyless ) to tweak other settings and didn’t see it. 

I’m sure dealers would be able to adjust this setting though.

Be worth setting up a poll on Battery depletion - to confirm if car it’s happened on; is keyless or not.

[Jasper.]

9 hours ago, russd1971 said:

Thanks for the info... So you disconnected the battery as part of the process... Did everything to start as normal after reconnection, or were there any problems (such as having to set up the trip computer etc)?

No I didn't disconnect it , I simply removed the nut whilst carefully holding the terminal in place , slipped on the ring terminal and replaced the nut and tightened it...

[russd1971]

5 hours ago, Jasper. said:

No I didn't disconnect it , I simply removed the nut whilst carefully holding the terminal in place , slipped on the ring terminal and replaced the nut and tightened it...

Ah that makes sense - thanks!

[Roy124]

Can the next person that hard wires their Battery please post pictures? 😁

[Derek.w]

On 6/1/2022 at 12:26 PM, russd1971 said:

Thanks for posting the photos of this. The only thing that slightly concerns me is that in the manual it says "If recharging with the 12-volt battery installed on the vehicle, be sure to disconnect the ground cable." I presume that this is to isolate the battery and is pretty standard when charging any battery in situ, and people charge their batteries like that all the time. But is it actually not that important to worry about?

Did you install the eyelet connectors and have you had any problems recharging with a CTEK? Pretty sure this is the route I would go down if the above isn't an issue.

I can see in the new manual they show an access door to unscrew under the rear seat without requiring lifting the actual seat. However, I'm not sure how easy it would be to attach the eyelet connectors without lifting the seat?

 

[Derek.w]

Hi you dont need to lift the rear seat to connect ilet terminals to positive post just undo Battery fastining bracket remove this & slide Battery forward about a inch to access positive terminal post.

I isolated my tools with insulation tape first & removed - ve tirminal ground first .

If you WANT TO it now a good time to cut your ctek lead & insert a 5 amp fuse for safty plus it makes adding to it later a lot easier ie a Battery monitor.

Negative terminal lots of places without connecting to the post screw I used the screws goint to the chassy ground.

Hope it helps.