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Micool
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On 1/21/2022 at 7:25 PM, Cyker said:

Yeah, diesels don't have to be rattly - The later german and, bizarrely, french ones were extremely refined, even the 4 cylinder ones! They were certainly smoother than the 3-pot in my Mk4 :laugh: 

Personally I liked that diesel thrum tho'; I was never a big fan of excessively smooth quiet engines - As long as it wasn't stupidly loud, I liked being able to hear what it's doing! The 1.33 in my old Mk2 was extremely smooth and barely audible at idle - Certainly any road noise was louder than the engine, but that made it tricky to know if it had stalled or the start-stop had kicked in sometimes!!

It's one thing I love about the Mk4 and it's 2-sided nature - I can make it raucous OR quiet! Again having my cake and eating it! :biggrin: 

 

Going from a straight six BMW diesel to a 4 pot VAG unit, the loss of refinement (not to mention power) was substantial and not worth it for the mere 5mpg I gained in economy IMO.  Sorry to sound like a snob, but I have to agree with the others who say a six is a much better choice for refinement in a diesel engine, budget permitting. Four cylinder petrols are much nicer than their diesel equivalent, which is why small diesels are still pretty much non-existent in the US where fuel is still relatively cheap.

The nice thing about a straight six is they are inherently balanced without the need for any weighted shafts etc. The only other commonly used configuration that can do that is V12, which is obviously even more of a dying breed. Not even a V8 can balance itself.

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BMW straight 6 diesel is one of the nicest Diesel engines sound ever, very smooth, very quiet and very refined plus plenty of power. Their straight 6 petrols as well. 👍👌

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13 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

BMW straight 6 diesel is one of the nicest Diesel engines sound ever, very smooth, very quiet and very refined plus plenty of power. Their straight 6 petrols as well. 👍👌

Their cars as a whole are nothing special, but they do make lovely engines, performance-wise. They also have very long service intervals and I don't think that helps their reliability reputation at all.

We all know that Toyota have an excellent reputation for reliability, but their products can't tolerate a lot of neglect and they have strict service intervals by modern standards. It's not all down to design & manufacturing.

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Hi everyone, just thought I reply to this topic to share my experience so far with TS 2.0 hybrid.

im using my Corolla TS 2L since June 2021. 
I was doing around 65mpg and using the eco mode and E5 petrol to maximum fuel efficiency.

My mpg dropped to 48-52 max during the winter time which is normal for a hybrid car.

my experience so far with the E5 petrol is so bad so I decided to use only the E5.

i do around 120 miles a day mainly urban driving and maybe %20 motorway.

another advise is to leave the car on to warm up in the morning for at least 15 minutes special during a cold weather. 
 

hope this will help

 

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17 minutes ago, Elmahdi said:

Hi everyone, just thought I reply to this topic to share my experience so far with TS 2.0 hybrid.

im using my Corolla TS 2L since June 2021. 
I was doing around 65mpg and using the eco mode and E5 petrol to maximum fuel efficiency.

My mpg dropped to 48-52 max during the winter time which is normal for a hybrid car.

my experience so far with the E5 petrol is so bad so I decided to use only the E5.

i do around 120 miles a day mainly urban driving and maybe %20 motorway.

another advise is to leave the car on to warm up in the morning for at least 15 minutes special during a cold weather. 
 

hope this will help

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience 👍

You mean E10 is bad and therefore using E5 helps with efficiency 👌

Ypu fuel consumption for 2.0 hybrid is excellent, waiting in the cold start is always better option , 15min perhaps is a bit extreme but 1-2 minutes is must do for the efficiency and health of the engine and drive train. 

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If I left my Mk4 on for 15 minutes without moving it would literally never warm up to operating temperature!! :laugh: 

 

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44 minutes ago, Elmahdi said:

....................

My mpg dropped to 48-52 max during the winter time which is normal for a hybrid car.

........................

another advise is to leave the car on to warm up in the morning for at least 15 minutes special during a cold weather. 

............................

 

I find it surprising that you would get such a good mpg during winter while warming up the car (2.0L model) for 15 minutes each morning.

Unfortunately I do not have a daily commute to test this out.

However, Toyota HEVs are more protected against idling starts such as you are describing. On any older gasoline engine it is recommended that you get the car moving after a startup and a short idle time as it will burn gas inefficiently and the catalytic converter underperforms until it is warm enough.

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Thanks for your advice. However I have found after leaving the car on each morning for at least 10 minutes only during a freezing morning very beneficial 

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I do monitor my mpg via the My Toyota app.  I don’t know how accurate this.

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It's generally 5-10% optimistic; I find the computer's mpg figures to be 4-5mpg higher than what my calculated figures are.

Still pretty darn good tho'!

 

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41 minutes ago, Popama said:

I find it surprising that you would get such a good mpg during winter while warming up the car (2.0L model) for 15 minutes each morning.

Unfortunately I do not have a daily commute to test this out.

However, Toyota HEVs are more protected against idling starts such as you are describing. On any older gasoline engine it is recommended that you get the car moving after a startup and a short idle time as it will burn gas inefficiently and the catalytic converter underperforms until it is warm enough.

I think these Gen4/ dynamic force engines have a warm up cycle mapped in. When starting from cold they do the first minute or so on idle, with MG2 providing the drive, supplemented by ICE & MG1 generating electricity (ICE at idle). Once the ICE/ cat has warmed up, the revs rise to 1600rpm and stay there whilst ICE / MG2 are furiously generating electricity to get the Battery up to a reasonable level. Everything settles down after 3mins of driving, and EV mode is allowed, when easing off. 
 

The above protocol happens each time the hybrid system is started (after the initial EV running whilst reversing out of the garage). 
 

The cold start sequence takes a little longer in winter, but happens all the same 

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One thing I have noticed on my short commute 6miles each way is the aircon has quite an effect. I nearly always drive in normal with aircon on. I thought that when I used eco mode it seemed to drop into ev mode more. So I done a little test this week and done my drive with no aircon on and then today I used the car in normal mode but aircon on eco and it seems better. With no aircon the car would drop into ev mode within about 2-3mins of driving and today using eco mode it was almost the same, so I wonder if that’s why eco mode seems to run in ev more as I’m guessing that automatically drops the aircon in eco mode at the same time?

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Older gen 3 hybrids are exactly the same and seriously they warm up ultra fast. Even in stationary after 3-4 minutes you have sufficient amount of heat coming into the cabin. AC drains power from the hybrid Battery and if you about efficiency best to switch it off in winter and only use when necessary in summer or to clean your windows, no point of wasting Battery for ac when there is no need of it 👌

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You lot are lucky, my Mk4 takes practically forever to warm up... it's a lot like my old diesel Mk1!!

It takes so long I don't even bother turning the heat on in the morning, because it just saps the mpg but doesn't really warm the car up unless I'm on the motorway. Thank goodness for my thick M&S coat and my Spinal Support Towel keeping me warm :laugh: 

 

(Marks and Spencer, not Mud and Snow rated...!)

 

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20 minutes ago, Cyker said:

You lot are lucky, my Mk4 takes practically forever to warm up... it's a lot like my old diesel Mk1!!

It takes so long I don't even bother turning the heat on in the morning, because it just saps the mpg but doesn't really warm the car up unless I'm on the motorway. Thank goodness for my thick M&S coat and my Spinal Support Towel keeping me warm :laugh: 

 

(Marks and Spencer, not Mud and Snow rated...!)

 

What model is the mk4? Mine is a 2021 and the watertemp gauge goes up after a mile and is blowing warmish air then

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2 hours ago, Elmahdi said:

I do monitor my mpg via the My Toyota app.  I don’t know how accurate this.

Well 65mpg from the 2.0 would be remarkable IMO, so well done to you if you have achieved that!

Your winter figures are similar to mine. One thing I would say about the app is it's possible to score very high mpg from a single journey but not as a whole tank average. I've probably been in the 60s myself on a single journey but never as an average from a full tank. I generally get mid 50s.

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21 minutes ago, Cyker said:

You lot are lucky, my Mk4 takes practically forever to warm up... it's a lot like my old diesel Mk1!!

It takes so long I don't even bother turning the heat on in the morning, because it just saps the mpg but doesn't really warm the car up unless I'm on the motorway. Thank goodness for my thick M&S coat and my Spinal Support Towel keeping me warm :laugh: 

 

(Marks and Spencer, not Mud and Snow rated...!)

 

You better try setting your heating at 22c° or whatever you like and leave it like that at speed 2 for example no ac and watch how quickly your car will warm up, drive in normal mode too not eco , even so the car will not let any heat going into the cabin in the first 2-3 mins while engine is running hard to warm up itself and then when it’s about 35.40c° of the coolant will let heat into the cabin , you also have an active front grill which is closed now in winter so Yaris as all other Toyota hybrids will warm up ultra fast. Your one perhaps never warm up because you have no heating on and for the engine doesn’t need to reach full 90C° to operate normally, 50C° perhaps it’s perfectly fine. 

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Having the climate control on in winter shouldn't be much of a drain on the Battery. The thing about winter is that it's cold 😉 The lowest temperature the CC can target is 16c so unless you actually have the temperature set to 'min' it won't be running the compressor unless you're in Australia or close to the equator so the power draw will be minimal - just the fan.

The only time it might run the compressor is if you direct airflow to the windscreen in which case it might be used to dehumidify the air to accelerate demisting.

This is why we invented things called 'thermostats'. It's the same deal with domestic heating systems in our homes. As long as the system has a thermostat there's no need to switch it off during summer because if the internal temperature is high enough the heating system will not do anything.

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I don't usually touch the fan speed settings tbh, just leave it on Auto and set it to e.g. 23C. The problem is I find if I have the heating on at all, the engine just runs forever and never gets above 2 bars of 'heat' on the temp gauge. There is enough heat to take the edge off, but not enough to feel warm, even with the coat on. Lukewarm at best :sad: 

It's like the heater matrix sucks the heat out of the engine faster than it generates it or something... What's worse is I can often see the engine running at 5-600rpm in the RPM gauge in the HUD, but the power flow screen shows that it's not driving the wheels or sending any power to the Battery so it's literally just wasting fuel to generate heat, and that rankles!

It does start to feel warm eventually, but by that time I'm practically at my destination so it's just not worth the mpg hit (I'd rather have my balls frozen but get great mpg than be cold AND have crap mpg :laugh: )

I've even experimented with running the HVAC with Eco on/off but all this seems to do is run the fan harder (Which, ironically, makes it feel colder :laugh: )

On the one day I take a motorway run first thing in the morning, the car does warm up pretty quick tho', so I guess the problem is all the slow traffic I wade through on the other days not giving the engine a chance to stretch its legs...

I'm sortof used to this behaviour as the Mk1 D4Ds I had for over a decade were the same. I just put it down to the one downside of an efficient engine - Not enough waste heat! And it is just a morning problem so could be worse...! Makes me all the more thankful I don't drive in e.g. Siberia :laugh: 

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On 1/26/2022 at 7:11 PM, Elmahdi said:

Thanks for your advice. However I have found after leaving the car on each morning for at least 10 minutes only during a freezing morning very beneficial 

Im struggling to find how leaving the car idling for 10-15mins helps anything? When it’s frozen it takes about 5mins to get enough heat through to to clear all the windows 

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I have my 1.8 hatchback (MY21) since November, it's been mostly below -5C most of the time, with lots of snow here in Southern Finland. I have 16" wheels with studless winter tires (Continental Viking Contact 7). I've driven 2400km. My overall average fuel economy is 5.1l/100km (55.3 uk mpg).

  • November was warm-ish (around +5 to 0 degrees Celsius), consumption was 4.8 (58.8 uk mpg).
  • December was the coldest (up to -20C), consumption was 5.2 (54.3 uk mpg).
  • January was a mix of cold (-20C) and warm (+3C), consumption was 5.1l/100km (55.3 uk mpg).

The car stays outside, but I do use an electric engine heater, which helps reduce consumption and emissions. Also, I am a very gentle driver, I focus on efficiency and stability, and Toyota app says my Hybrid Driver Score is 91/100. 

Looking forward to seeing around 4.5l/100km (62 uk mpg) in the summer, although I haven't tried winter tires yet (stock Falkens) with 17" wheels. 

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@Sam Ekkert, what is this "electric engine heater" that you use? is this something aftermarket that you bought? I've never heard of it.

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Clix, in extreme cold conditions you can fit a sump heater to keep the oil warm, a coolant heater and a Battery trickle charger. 

Not really necessary in England though it could be beneficial in parts of Scotland. 

60 years ago we had these on standby vehicles but then engine oil was much thicker and we needed instant start. 

In a part of Canada I used to visit power points were provided in parking lots.  The alternative was to keep the engine running. 

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@clix It's aftermarket, but car dealers in the Nordics offer to install one when you're buying a car. The majority of cars sold have these heaters, and the majority of private parking lots have special electric outlets with programmable timers so that you can heat up the engine prior to departure. They also usually come with optional interior heaters, so that both the engine and the interior are heated up. 

I have one from Defa — https://www.defa.com/electrical-preheating/

 

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