12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Graham47]

@CPN,

Colin, remind me, which OBD dongle are you using to monitor this ?
 

[CPN]

3 minutes ago, Graham47 said:

@CPN,

Colin, remind me, which OBD dongle are you using to monitor this ?
 

 

[Hibird]

5 minutes ago, anchorman said:

What I mean by “non standard” Mike is that I’m fairly sure the battery problem is exclusively low mileage cars, in fact stand more than run.  The problem highlighted itself during covid but any additional reports tend to be similar circumstances.  Cars that do the more normal mileage (used to be 10-12k but even above 8k seem to give no problems). I think it’s when you start to get really low like 3 or 4 that they start.   At what point do Toyota start to beef up the battery for these conditions?  There’s plenty of info telling owners how to deal with it but there’s other issues like engine oil and tyres that degrade at such mileage.  Where do you stop?

I do not disagree that increased use will overcome/lessen the issue and there is plenty of info available that would help mitigate the issue for owners but they will typically come across these when searching for a solution not at point of sale and by then the Battery is pobably toast. We must not forget that not all owners are tech wizards or want to be !

What I see as an issue and some others don't is that Battery issues are just that for some folk and we need happy owners not people with a boot full of chargers/jump starters and solar panels to get their £35K vehicle in to Ready Mode.

We need new vehicles to have good undamaged batteries at point of sale of course there will be many damaged batteries with happy owners as the vehicle is being used in a manner that will not expose the problem until one day it does !

The solution for current models is be smart and work around your situation the best you can but for future models lets have something better not carried over which can only be a good thing

 

 

 

[anchorman]

I’m not convinced they are damaged at the point of sale. It isn’t Toyotas first rodeo, they’re not going to walk into warranty issues.  Warranty was one of my jobs when I was in the motor industry and you avoid it not promote it.   

[Hibird]

People are having batteries replaced under warranty as can be seen on this forum so unless I am missing something that makes it a warranty issue despite you being unconvinced.

I will continue to hope for better for all not just myself and will continue to view the local dealer jump starting new cars with flat batteries.

I do not work in warranty but maybe I should !

 

[Gray86]

On 1/14/2023 at 5:49 PM, AisinW said:

CTEK is too expensive for what it offers.  Aldi and Lidl offer much better value and do the same thing with microcontroller and regulated current. £20 or less today in local Lidl. The fully charge reading is 12.6V or higher. 

You can remove D/C cut on fuse box when leaving it for 1 month in airport.  You do not need to crawl under the seat. 

Below is TSB from Toyota that dealership do in practice. It is from USA gov. Website

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10154807-9999.pdf

There is an update for fixing the EMERGENCY CALL standby that  is too long and deplete the battery. So ask dealership update this fix and probably you need new 12V battery. Once it is depleted below 12V the capacity drop below 50% even after you fully charge it. Sulphation damage is not reversible below 12V. 

Do the Lidl & Aldi chargers have the ability to recondition the Battery? If so, it’s great value 

[Dala]

drain 0.22V in 48 hours (2 days)
I've gotten used to it being normal with the Yaris Hybrid 😞

[AisinW]

4 hours ago, Gray86 said:

Do the Lidl & Aldi chargers have the ability to recondition the battery? If so, it’s great value 

Yes,  all charger recondition the Battery.  They all do pulse charging when it is below 10V. However,  all charge only revive to certain extent.   Once it is below 12V for too long,  the permanent damage often drop the capacity 50% or more.  

Just don't expect too much on those.  Keep it above 12V all the time and it will last 7y or more.  Let it drop below 12V for 1 or 2 days,  make it dead in the next few months.  

[Max_Headroom]

19 hours ago, CPN said:

This is how Hybrid Assistant shows it before pressing the Start button...

 

The link doesn't work for me.

[anchorman]

16 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

The link doesn't work for me.

No, nor me.

[CPN]

2 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

The link doesn't work for me.

Try it now... 

 

[Max_Headroom]

2 minutes ago, CPN said:

Try it now... 

 

Bad Request

Error 400

[CPN]

12 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

Bad Request

Error 400

Sheesh... 3rd time lucky... Try now...

[CPN]

Belt & braces...

[Gray86]

16 hours ago, AisinW said:

Yes,  all charger recondition the battery.  They all do pulse charging when it is below 10V. However,  all charge only revive to certain extent.   Once it is below 12V for too long,  the permanent damage often drop the capacity 50% or more.  

Just don't expect too much on those.  Keep it above 12V all the time and it will last 7y or more.  Let it drop below 12V for 1 or 2 days,  make it dead in the next few months.  

That’s fair enough. I’m trying to make the Battery in my Wife’s Yaris 1.33 last 12 years (which is when we sell the car). At 8 years now, and it’s holding strong (Varta AGM) 

[RickyC]

On 1/18/2023 at 5:45 PM, anchorman said:

I’m not convinced they are damaged at the point of sale. It isn’t Toyotas first rodeo, they’re not going to walk into warranty issues.  Warranty was one of my jobs when I was in the motor industry and you avoid it not promote it.   

I fear that there's a sum of factors:

• Long delivery times
• More components that stay powered when auto is parked. 
• Maybe different Battery technology
• Cars delivered to customer with 12V Battery not totally charged
• Covid effects ( lockdowns on 2020 / 2021 and migration from on site to remote work for may people )

Looking on forums I'm reading few complaints regarding dead Battery on Mark III Hybrid Yaris while more people had problems with Mark IV.  

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, RickyC said:

I fear that there's a sum of factors:

• Long delivery times
• More components that stay powered when auto is parked. 
• Maybe different battery technology
• Cars delivered to customer with 12V battery not totally charged
• Covid effects ( lockdowns on 2020 / 2021 and migration from on site to remote work for may people )

Looking on forums I'm reading few complaints regarding dead battery on Mark III Hybrid Yaris while more people had problems with Mark IV.  

No.  Delivery times are up to 12 months but the car is invariably produced in the last 4-6 weeks which is no different than it’s ever been and they know exactly what they’re doing in calculating the load on the Battery.  It amazes me how many people think they’ve thought of something Toyota don’t know about.  They ain’t perfect for other reasons but I’ve seen their research facilities and it’s not !Removed! packet engineering.  

[AisinW]

@CPN, Hi Collin, do You have 12.3V in ACC mode (2x press power button without pressing the brake?  That is very good. How old is the Battery?   My Battery is only at 11.7-12  V since 2 years ago and it is still the same as today but mine is already more than 7 years old.   I never have a single fail start up since the car was new and I am not worry if I need a new Battery soon.  Just get a jump starter pack from Tacklife for about €60 and charge to 50% and keep it in the trunk.   I used Torque Pro +Veepeak (€15).  

[anchorman]

I’m sure I’ve been more bored by looking at a photo of dials but I just can’t remember when - as Shania Twain says, it don’t impressa me much.  I simply can’t get excited by Battery data.   If it doesn’t start I’ll worry.  By the way I’ve been monitoring the paint on my new Cross.  I noticed that my Acme Magnatron 5000 analyser on scale No nine million, has hardened by another 0.0003%.   I’ll keep you updated on developments…. Might even write a book.

[AisinW]

I agree Don. I only provide some other things that you can monitor with such cheap OBD2 and freeware that cost 1/2 of any Battery tester.  Especially with most of us have Hybrid these days.  Dr. Prius can really tell if our hybrid Battery are still good especially the internal resistance reading and voltage variance between cells. It is important when we buy a used car.  The 12V Battery also can be tested by turning it to ACC mode and turn the head lights or blower motor on to see how much voltage drop under the load.  If it is always above 11V (1 minute headlights and blower motor on) , the battery is still in excellent condition. 

[Hibird]

11 hours ago, anchorman said:

No.  Delivery times are up to 12 months but the car is invariably produced in the last 4-6 weeks which is no different than it’s ever been and they know exactly what they’re doing in calculating the load on the battery.  It amazes me how many people think they’ve thought of something Toyota don’t know about.  They ain’t perfect for other reasons but I’ve seen their research facilities and it’s not !Removed! packet engineering.  

While you were seeing their reaserch facilities did you see any instructions as to how a dealer is instructed to deal with a flat Battery on a brand new vehicle prior to customer hand over. Bearing in mind the damage has been done at this point. Of course not, but then again maybe you did. I think it should be replaced not jumped and sold on to cause grief although I think we far apart on the issue.

If people could collect new vehicles direct from the factory (never going to happen) some not all Battery problems could be avoided.

I am also happy Toyota owner, I have had better and worse but I think there is always room for improvment but many don't.

I am sure you have the standard Toyota Hybrid accessory pack of overpriced charger and jump pack and appear to be a very happy Toyota owner. Thats all most people want and I support that.

I would be amazed if improvment & innovation at all levels of design, manufacture, & dealer experience could not make the world a better place.

 

 

 

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, Hibird said:

I am sure you have the standard Toyota Hybrid accessory pack of overpriced charger and jump pack and appear to be a very happy Toyota owner. Thats all most people want and I support that.

I would be amazed if improvment & innovation at all levels of design, manufacture, & dealer experience could not make the world a better place.

Never heard of a Toyota accessory pack.  Did you invent it? 

Of course improvements are possible but only in relation to the bottom line.  Will it sustain market share?  Will the customer be prepared to pay for it? 

I would not buy the 1964 £560 Ford spec car today though my 1966 £825 Triumph spec had a better interior trim than today's Toyota Corolla. 

[Hibird]

3 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Never heard of a Toyota accessory pack.  Did you invent it? 

Of course improvements are possible but only in relation to the bottom line.  Will it sustain market share?  Will the customer be prepared to pay for it? 

I would not buy the 1964 £560 Ford spec car today though my 1966 £825 Triumph spec had a better interior trim than today's Toyota Corolla. 

As long as you are happy that's all that matters ... 1966 Triumph better interior trim wow, glad I don't have a Corolla

[Roy124]

Lol, seriously, the Triumph had real wood door capping and dash. Driver and passenger Ash trays, a full width parcel shelf under the dash, deep plush carpets including up the doors and, novel for the time, Ambla leather seats and an adjustable steering wheel. 

Again, for its time, the seats did not recline and lacked headrests, and a radio was an extra. 

It also had a massive 11.8 gallon tank and a range of 360 miles.  Imagine that at 60 mpg. 

[Hibird]

37 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Lol, seriously, the Triumph had real wood door capping and dash. Driver and passenger Ash trays, a full width parcel shelf under the dash, deep plush carpets including up the doors and, novel for the time, Ambla leather seats and an adjustable steering wheel. 

Again, for its time, the seats did not recline and lacked headrests, and a radio was an extra. 

It also had a massive 11.8 gallon tank and a range of 360 miles.  Imagine that at 60 mpg. 

My rose tinted glasses are in for a refurb but did it always start and if so how many hours a day on an overpriced charger were needed.