Fuel economy

[2009joe]

Just now, Cyker said:

yeah don't bother idling it to heat it up, just start driving - it'll heat itself up much faster when it's being used as diesels generate a lot less heat when idling than petrols.

most people i know etc say better to start diesels and warm them up a bit before taking off as its better  for the engine plus for all the diesel they use during idling im sure its noting worth 

[Cyker]

Maybe for like, 10-20 seconds to give the oil a chance to get everywhere it needs to go, but I don't reckon it's worth more than that. As long as you start off gently and don't rag it while it's stone cold it will use less fuel to warm up faster!

[Catlover]

Once the engine starts up, yes you let it idle for 20 seconds if you want, then drive off but not aggressively. Especially on winter mornings, and more so if car left on the open (not garaged) you need to be gentle on the throttle to let engine oils and water get around and warm up somewhat.

Just seen Cykers post, we like in unison. 

[Cyker]

Great minds think alike 'eh?  Plus a fellow former Yaris D4D owner too as I recall!

[Catlover]

Yep, just before the DPF we’re put in. It did have a new turbo put in a part of a recall….. think there was a danger of catching fire on some units.

[robt100]

As the others have said, no need to wait for warmup. I have an older car with a oil pressure guage thats direct wired to the dash via a pipe from the oil system, can confirm that 20 seconds is enough to be at full oil pressure and safe to drive on. Just dont boot it till the water temp has been at normal levels for a few mins.

[NeilAvensisT]

9 hours ago, Cyker said:

Great minds think alike 'eh?  Plus a fellow former Yaris D4D owner too as I recall!

Sorry to jump in here, but I had, for many years a Black Yaris D4D, utterly fabulous little car, passed it onto my son who also then used it for years. Only sold it eventually as my son was doing loads of motorway travelling and not really suitable for that....especially at motorway speeds and in sidewinds I seem to recall!! Great little cars.

[SB1500]

I'm struggling with the MPG / fuel economy on my 1.6 D4D 2018 Avensis diesel...  I actually listed her on AutoTrader because of this despite absolutely loving the car otherwise.

I filled the tank last weekend Saturday. I drove back from Belfast to Londonderry (a 68 mile trip), 1/3rd motorway doing normal speeds in 6th and 60mph on open roads the way back. When I got home, it had drank a quarter of the tank. A quarter of the 60 litre fuel tank 15 litres .. £22.65 to do that drive back, really?  I'm not sure I can live with that to be honest. That's a long journey (about as long a journey as you can do in this country lol).

I've only had this car a month. The MPG seemed around 50s in the first 1.5 weeks then I got the EGR cooler recall done and it's been dreadful since, I can't think though of why that might make a difference? I might take it back to Toyota.

Other thought was perhaps the dealer used any old 5W-30 oil and not the 'special 1WW stuff' which I spotted says 'Premium Fuel Economy' on the bottle..strange thing to put on motor oil???

My theory was the 1.6 on such a large car is always strained so I am shocked to hear the 2.0 is drinking more as you'd think it would be more in its comfort zone / not exerted most of the time.

[SB1500]

11 hours ago, 2009joe said:

im in 2 minds of selling it on for a ve golf 1.6tdi

Joe, you'll be putting wheel bearings and bushings on a VAG group car at 80,000 miles versus a Toyota. Choose your poison I suppose! Lol  A wee 1.4 D4D Yaris 2013 we had in the family went 140,000 miles before it was written off, nothing but brakes and servicing in 8 years - put every Audi / VW in our family to shame. Another relative has an A4 I heard they've had to put callipers and all on it..  maybe a nice driving experience but the engineering isn't there. 

The new Golf is an ergonomic disaster inside, watch a video of the interior heating controls, especially the heated seats... insane that they'd make such risky choices on their main car

[TonyHSD]

Agreed, Vw are technological disaster indeed, they did it on purpose to sell parts, Germany is one of the biggest oem manufacturers in Europe., although they look nice and drives fine I would not be buying any of their cars, might give them a chance on later on future purchase with their ID series but not so sure , no need to change my car for now plus Evs may turn to be a scam even before they go mainstream and see a ban before ice cars goes away.
Anyway, for the diesel cars plus all other ice including hybrids waiting 1-2 min before driving off in the morning is always a good idea. 
You don’t want only oil to get into all places as this  is happening in the first few seconds but you also want the temperature of the moving metal parts inside reach at least 20C°, why is that ?!, well simply because these are designed with tight tolerances of which depends the oil pressure, basically a cold engine will have slightly different tolerance plus slightly thicker oil and although there would be an oil everywhere you mentioned the oil pressure will not be as high as needed and faster metal wear will occur, that’s why engines run on long motorway journeys has longer life than those only used in short town driving, operating temperature. Yes , you will reach operating temperature quickly if you start driving immediately but how and at what price? , higher friction =higher temperature , but also higher wear rate. The ideal spot here is exactly these 1-2 min waiting. Also you can feel the engine is more lively and freely goes up the rpm if you wait these 1-2 min, all because of better lubricating and less friction. 👍 Keeping excessive idle thought also not good for the engine and can cause premature wear, stuck oil rings, thinner oil and introduction of fuel into the oil, sludge buildup, blocked cat converter, dirty lambda sensors, egr etc. 

[TonyHSD]

7 hours ago, SB1500 said:

I'm struggling with the MPG / fuel economy on my 1.6 D4D 2018 Avensis diesel...  I actually listed her on AutoTrader because of this despite absolutely loving the car otherwise.

I filled the tank last weekend Saturday. I drove back from Belfast to Londonderry (a 68 mile trip), 1/3rd motorway doing normal speeds in 6th and 60mph on open roads the way back. When I got home, it had drank a quarter of the tank. A quarter of the 60 litre fuel tank 15 litres .. £22.65 to do that drive back, really?  I'm not sure I can live with that to be honest. That's a long journey (about as long a journey as you can do in this country lol).

I've only had this car a month. The MPG seemed around 50s in the first 1.5 weeks then I got the EGR cooler recall done and it's been dreadful since, I can't think though of why that might make a difference? I might take it back to Toyota.

Other thought was perhaps the dealer used any old 5W-30 oil and not the 'special 1WW stuff' which I spotted says 'Premium Fuel Economy' on the bottle..strange thing to put on motor oil???

My theory was the 1.6 on such a large car is always strained so I am shocked to hear the 2.0 is drinking more as you'd think it would be more in its comfort zone / not exerted most of the time.

I have better idea for you. Buy a new Toyota hybrid and part ex your current avensis, you may take more money for it that way. Currently is better to buy a brand new car than used even if it’s only few years old. Other guys can give you an advice on purchasing a new one , how to get best price, best part ex, where to buy from etc. Yaris or Yaris cross, Corolla 1.8 or Prius those are great for efficiency. 
Good luck 👍

[2009joe]

10 hours ago, NeilAvensisT said:

Sorry to jump in here, but I had, for many years a Black Yaris D4D, utterly fabulous little car, passed it onto my son who also then used it for years. Only sold it eventually as my son was doing loads of motorway travelling and not really suitable for that....especially at motorway speeds and in sidewinds I seem to recall!! Great little cars.

quick question think looking a car for the wife if yu say those wee 1.4 d4d yaris is good and drives great what uz guys think about this one as was going to buy a petrol one but if youz think a wee yaris d4d is good might buy one of these  

https://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Toyota-Yaris-1-4-D-4D-TR-5dr-296073787?make=30&model=1262&keywords=&fuel_type=2&trans_type=0&age_from=0&age_to=0&price_from=0&price_to=0&user_type=0&mileage_to=0&body_style=0&distance_enabled=1&distance_miles=60&distance_postcode=bt515dd&distance_miles=60&homepage_search_attr=1&tab_id=0&search_type=1

[Cyker]

10 hours ago, NeilAvensisT said:

Sorry to jump in here, but I had, for many years a Black Yaris D4D, utterly fabulous little car, passed it onto my son who also then used it for years. Only sold it eventually as my son was doing loads of motorway travelling and not really suitable for that....especially at motorway speeds and in sidewinds I seem to recall!! Great little cars.

Oh god, you're giving me flashbacks of the time I took my Mk1 up the M1, years ago last time we had winds like these!! That slab-sided little light-weight car got blown all over the place!!  

That was an... exciting... journey, to say the least!!  

It's amazing how much more planted the new Mk4 is by comparison - It's lower and wider and barely I barely noticed the cross-winds compared to the Mk1 and Mk2 when I was on motorways over the past few days!

[Cyker]

5 minutes ago, 2009joe said:

quick question think looking a car for the wife if yu say those wee 1.4 d4d yaris is good and drives great what uz guys think about this one as was going to buy a petrol one but if youz think a wee yaris d4d is good might buy one of these  

https://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Toyota-Yaris-1-4-D-4D-TR-5dr-296073787?make=30&model=1262&keywords=&fuel_type=2&trans_type=0&age_from=0&age_to=0&price_from=0&price_to=0&user_type=0&mileage_to=0&body_style=0&distance_enabled=1&distance_miles=60&distance_postcode=bt515dd&distance_miles=60&homepage_search_attr=1&tab_id=0&search_type=1

TBH it depends on how she'll be using it - If she's going to be driving a lot, then yeah that's a good shout. If not, then I'd avoid any diesel past about 2008-ish unless it's going to be used regularly driving up hills, carrying loads of stuff or being on the motorway a lot - Reason is, it's around that time they all had DPFs put in, and it will just cause you loads of trouble unless the engine gets proper hot regularly, and town driving will barely get it warm.

The older Yaris D4Ds didn't have DPFs so they were a lot more reliable (And also having all that diesel torque in something that weighed less than a ton was hilarious  ), but they tend to be a bit rusty now unless looked after, and it looks like they'll be on the chopping block judging by how many cities are 'banning' them with 'charges'.

 

[TonyHSD]

5 minutes ago, 2009joe said:

quick question think looking a car for the wife if yu say those wee 1.4 d4d yaris is good and drives great what uz guys think about this one as was going to buy a petrol one but if youz think a wee yaris d4d is good might buy one of these  

https://www.usedcarsni.com/2013-Toyota-Yaris-1-4-D-4D-TR-5dr-296073787?make=30&model=1262&keywords=&fuel_type=2&trans_type=0&age_from=0&age_to=0&price_from=0&price_to=0&user_type=0&mileage_to=0&body_style=0&distance_enabled=1&distance_miles=60&distance_postcode=bt515dd&distance_miles=60&homepage_search_attr=1&tab_id=0&search_type=1

Looks good to me. 👍

[2009joe]

50 minutes ago, Cyker said:

TBH it depends on how she'll be using it - If she's going to be driving a lot, then yeah that's a good shout. If not, then I'd avoid any diesel past about 2008-ish unless it's going to be used regularly driving up hills, carrying loads of stuff or being on the motorway a lot - Reason is, it's around that time they all had DPFs put in, and it will just cause you loads of trouble unless the engine gets proper hot regularly, and town driving will barely get it warm.

The older Yaris D4Ds didn't have DPFs so they were a lot more reliable (And also having all that diesel torque in something that weighed less than a ton was hilarious  ), but they tend to be a bit rusty now unless looked after, and it looks like they'll be on the chopping block judging by how many cities are 'banning' them with 'charges'.

 

true my 2014 toyota avensis business edt has a dpf on it and well tbh i dont do much driving on it so if anyone be fit to tell you guys how going to hold up it will be  me .tbh short run morning and afternoon from work and thats all it gets all week then maybe at weekend gets a bit of driving more but tbh not relay .but im going to do a few mods like reroute my pcv to the bottom of the engine and clean out the intake manifold and egr this year when weather gets warm . other than that im just going to drive the hell out of it for 11 years until im sick of it lol

[SB1500]

4 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

I have better idea for you. Buy a new Toyota hybrid and part ex your current avensis, you may take more money for it that way. Currently is better to buy a brand new car than used even if it’s only few years old. Other guys can give you an advice on purchasing a new one , how to get best price, best part ex, where to buy from etc. Yaris or Yaris cross, Corolla 1.8 or Prius those are great for efficiency. 
Good luck 👍

Part of me is tempted to buy a basic Corolla (the lowest price models in the UK used for sale (NI in my case)).  OR... an Excel Auris one of the last years with every feature under the sun.  But I am going to ask Toyota to investigate my car to be honest, it has been worse since getting the recall done (could be a coincidence but I'll let them tell me that). Plus a few little things I'd like put right under warranty. 

I'm applying for new jobs at the minute, I'd like to be making 5k more a year and one way or another, by the end of this year (if not month) I'll be there. That might ease the fuel situation (in terms of me being able to more comfortably afford it). 

Bit of brainstorming too last night...  This is the coldest weather we'll get all year in the UK - right?  Snow on Friday. Secondly, since finishing with the woman, I don't do any long trips. I have started going back to the office so 5 days a week, in and out just 7 miles. I drive the car very easily in the mornings (no flooring it, listening to the gear **** indicator) and the thing is only between 1/4 and 1/2 on the temp gauge... she isn't getting up to temperature at all.   Plus the cold weather...  that might be the culprit? Average MPG now down to 43.4. 

On Thursday I'll be taking it up Joe's way to the North Coast. About 35 miles up a steep mountain road (if some **** in a Sportage isn't going to do 40 the whole way) so I should get it well up to temperature and a flogging then. Get the cob webs out? ..and 35 miles back. Then the same on the weekend in the other direction to let it stretch its legs between 5 days of 7 mile short city trips.. That'll keep the diesel components happy right? 

I just ordered a genuine Toyota service kit from some site called 'eHybrid' which seems to have a lot of Toyota parts.......after ordering I noticed a few links on the bottom lead nowhere but the contact page.  Paid with PayPal so I should be covered if it's a scam. £95 for 6L of the genuine Toyota 1WW special oil, genuine filter, cabin filter, air filter.. and no delivery charge (even to NI). Nearly seems too good to be true... I'll report back and let you all know.  

I wonder if the proper oil will make a difference.. 

[Cyker]

Very likely the culprit - I think once it's got a bit of temp in it and all its fluids are pressurized and up to temp, try driving it less gently as that'll get the temps up faster - My D4D felt most powerful and got the best efficiency once it was good and hot.

Diesels get hit hard by the cold, esp. on shorter journeys - The only thing hit harder is hybrids!

My dad once got 130-odd miles out of a tank of diesel in his old TDCi Focus because he was only driving it very short distances, but  when I borrowed it for a while and I got over 500 miles out of the same tank, mostly long hauls up and down the M1 and M40, so it does make a lot of difference!

Also ignore the shift indicators; They might be okay once the car is warmed up but I swear they ask you to shift far too early - My mate used to obey them religiously and it was painful being a passenger as you could feel how laboured the engine was being forced to run at such low RPMs!

If you have been driving such short distances a lot, it might also be worth running a tank of Shell V-Power through it - It is expensive, esp. now!, but when I was getting a power-loss from my D4D due to short journeys allowing crud to build up on the injectors, I found that (And an italian tune-up    ) made a big difference and helped get it back to how it was before. Alternately some redex diesel fuel system cleaner or a can of bg44/45/whatever-the-heck-it-is-called could also be used for the same cleaning effect.

 

[SB1500]

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

Very likely the culprit - I think once it's got a bit of temp in it and all its fluids are pressurized and up to temp, try driving it less gently as that'll get the temps up faster - My D4D felt most powerful and got the best efficiency once it was good and hot.

Okay, so today (after driving down the street / waiting at a junction for a while) I floorer it (Not excessive but 'swift getaway'). Kept up the general ignoring of the shift indicator, low and behold, 43.4 mpg for the trip (vs 39. something usually).  I'll keep that up and see if it makes a difference. It's remarkable how decent the 1.6 D4D feels in such a big car. It isn't a rocket like the DS3 (it had 120hp) but it can get out of its way when it needs to.

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

Diesels get hit hard by the cold, esp. on shorter journeys - The only thing hit harder is hybrids!

If I were to trade this for an Auris Hybrid what sort of MPG could I be getting? (Realistically - not feather footing it but also not driving it like a racecar)

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

My dad once got 130-odd miles out of a tank of diesel in his old TDCi Focus because he was only driving it very short distances, but  when I borrowed it for a while and I got over 500 miles out of the same tank, mostly long hauls up and down the M1 and M40, so it does make a lot of difference!

Also ignore the shift indicators; They might be okay once the car is warmed up but I swear they ask you to shift far too early - My mate used to obey them religiously and it was painful being a passenger as you could feel how laboured the engine was being forced to run at such low RPMs!

The shift indicator on this car always seems to want to be in 5th gear. My experience to date was cars always wanting to be in 6th / highest gear. So far I've been listening to it as I fear putting it in 6th will make it struggle and wear stuff out (no idea what). 

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

If you have been driving such short distances a lot, it might also be worth running a tank of Shell V-Power through it - It is expensive, esp. now!, but when I was getting a power-loss from my D4D due to short journeys allowing crud to build up on the injectors, I found that (And an italian tune-up    ) made a big difference and helped get it back to how it was before. Alternately some redex diesel fuel system cleaner or a can of bg44/45/whatever-the-heck-it-is-called could also be used for the same cleaning effect.

I stick to this one Irish brand of filling stations called 'Maxol' here. It's probably their version of Shell quality wise. They're the only station I believe with a company policy that people from HQ can come at any time to survey / sample the tanks to make sure there's no funny business going on. And on the pumps / signs they talk a big game about quality assurance and engine health / trusting the quality of the fuel.  Sure, it could be a load of BS in practice but I feel good about it lol

I've never used premium. My take was unless your car needed it (big high compression V8 or above real sports car) it was just wasted as the engine couldn't fully burn the fuel - maybe even doing damage over time becuase of that.  And apparently in the UK we have all of the beneficial additives for keeping the engine clean burning etc anyway by law, whereas maybe in other countries regular lacks a lot of that.  As for premium diesel, I wasn't sure what that even does at above the regular diesel given how lubricative it is to begin with?  

Nevertheless, perhaps I'll give it a run through on premium diesel and see the difference regardless of my theories on it, if you think it could help? 🙂

[TonyHSD]

Premium fuels are better than standard ones although quality will vary between different garages. If you about Auris hybrid the efficiency will be the same around 50mpg winter and around 60mpg summer. Toyota hybrids just drives much better, actually the best of all cars with (ice) internal combustion engine and also are the cheapest to maintain, similar to electric cars. , lasts longer than others and cost less to maintain and easier, an average diy person can service its Toyota hybrid on his driveway.
Toyota hybrids gen 4 from 2016 and especially those from 2019/20 has better efficiency as the system has been updated plus total weight of the cars reduced, a new TNGA platform., where Auris and your Avensis has previous generation chassis, heavier and the hybrid system gen 3 from 2010 Prius which is still better than any avensis drive train and very similar to avensis 1.8 petrol but more efficient and more  refined to drive. Latest Yaris is a real deal in terms of efficiency and drivability imo, has the best fuel consumption of all hybrids including Prius , weights only 1100kg and has 115bhp power output. , therefore you are looking at 60mpg winter and over 70mpg summer real world economy. , forget about Auris. 👌

[Cyker]

I'm also usually in the camp that thinks 'super' fuels are a lot of money for not much benefit, and only really worth it if you've got a high-compression petrol or turbo-petrol car as most cars can't take advantage of the higher octane.

The one exception I made was with the Shell V-Power Diesel specifically, as it's the only fuel I've had in a car that had a very noticeable effect on the engine performance - I only tried it to try and de-crudify the injectors in my old D4D, but it had a subtle and noticeable effect on the engine; Ran noticeably smoother (The 1.4D4D is normally very unrefined and clattery  ) and I could take it past 4k rpm without the engine shaking the car so alarmingly compared to normal diesel. However it did feel a bit weaker below 2000rpm. My theory is because the fuel is semi-synthetic, that is somehow making the difference.

If you don't have access to that, it's probably not worth it, as most 'super' diesels are just normal diesel with lots of cleaning additives in it - Cheaper to just dump some Redex diesel cleaner (Or similar) in a tank of normal diesel to get a similar effect, and you only need to do this for 1-2 tankfuls for the biggest effect anyway, as they seem to do a good job of cleaning the fuel system out.

I was only suggesting the fancy diesel to see if that will put back some performance, as slow and cold diesel engines can get a lot of crud building up on the injectors which makes performance and emissions worse and lowers mpg.

But the most straightforward thing is just to get it, and keep it, nice and hot as that's when it'll be super efficient and powerful. Diesels are workhorse engines and really want to be worked hard to stay healthy and get the best out of them.