PHEV stop start urban driving... Sport mode best?

[Nick72]

Any views on settling this one?

Regen when lifting off the gas seems stronger in sport so I think this may improve economy in the situation mentioned? But then I also think it probably doesn't matter which mode since if you brake then you are engaging regen anyway.

Sure the throttle response differs between modes but when I go into sport and lift off the gas the car slows much faster than in eco.

Still a little confused and perplexed, so what are folks experience? And any documented examples online?  

[philip42h]

Best for what?

For economy, Eco will be best, followed by Normal and Sport will be worst. Whatever you might gain through stronger regen in Sport will be small compared with what you will have already lost through excessive acceleration ...

[Nick72]

1 minute ago, philip42h said:

Best for what?

For economy, Eco will be best, followed by Normal and Sport will be worst. Whatever you might gain through stronger regen in Sport will be small compared with what you will have already lost through excessive acceleration ...

Economy. 

Why would acceleration be excessive? Just use a lighter foot to compensate for the throttle response adjustment? Then take the earlier onset regen.

[ernieb]

I've tried a few simulations driving the same roads in different modes and frankly have found little difference.  Not scientific in any way but I've found that in ECO mode I can get a similar effect to Sport in terms of region by just braking slightly more but keeping the pressure out of the mechanical braking zone.  What I have found is that if you apply the brakes for a set amount of regen and leave the foot pressure the same the car slows then as the speed comes off will come to a stop without further pressure.  It's not something I'd normally have done as I would usually continue to apply pressure to the pedal to bring the car to a stop but found that on an empty road with traffic lights against me I just wanted to see how the car reacted.

[IanML]

9 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Economy. 

Why would acceleration be excessive? Just use a lighter foot to compensate for the throttle response adjustment? Then take the earlier onset regen.

Sounds right to me.

[philip42h]

10 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Economy. 

Why would acceleration be excessive? Just use a lighter foot to compensate for the throttle response adjustment? Then take the earlier onset regen.

My use of the word "excessive" was, perhaps, a little provocative ... 🙂

And, of course, one can drive "economically" in Sport mode, or "enthusiastically" in Eco mode, but Toyota have designed the various modes for specific purposes. So it's more rewarding to drive enthusiastically in Sport mode, and far easier to drive economically in Eco mode ...

To progress economically in stop/start traffic one needs to accelerate slowly, let the car in front get away (a bit) and use the extra gap so gained to anticipate, lift off earlier and 'coast' to a halt - effectively smoothing out the stop/start nature of the flow as best you can. While regenerative braking is more efficient in energy terms than physical braking, it is still a relatively inefficient process - what you need to do is avoid wasting energy in the first place.

[Nick72]

11 hours ago, ernieb said:

I've tried a few simulations driving the same roads in different modes and frankly have found little difference.  Not scientific in any way but I've found that in ECO mode I can get a similar effect to Sport in terms of region by just braking slightly more but keeping the pressure out of the mechanical braking zone.  What I have found is that if you apply the brakes for a set amount of regen and leave the foot pressure the same the car slows then as the speed comes off will come to a stop without further pressure.  It's not something I'd normally have done as I would usually continue to apply pressure to the pedal to bring the car to a stop but found that on an empty road with traffic lights against me I just wanted to see how the car reacted.

That's interesting thanks Ernie. 

I've put it in sport mode so will see what happens over the next week but given our vast temperature swings I suspect that will dominate the outcomes!

[Nick72]

8 hours ago, philip42h said:

My use of the word "excessive" was, perhaps, a little provocative ... 🙂

And, of course, one can drive "economically" in Sport mode, or "enthusiastically" in Eco mode, but Toyota have designed the various modes for specific purposes. So it's more rewarding to drive enthusiastically in Sport mode, and far easier to drive economically in Eco mode ...

To progress economically in stop/start traffic one needs to accelerate slowly, let the car in front get away (a bit) and use the extra gap so gained to anticipate, lift off earlier and 'coast' to a halt - effectively smoothing out the stop/start nature of the flow as best you can. While regenerative braking is more efficient in energy terms than physical braking, it is still a relatively inefficient process - what you need to do is avoid wasting energy in the first place.

Yes you are right. I think I'm mulling over the difference between coasting to a stop with no braking or regen (friction and drag) versus coming to a stop with regen. Same initial velocity.