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Petrol Particulate Filter...........


Lawnmowerman
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Which very few people know when slagging off Diesel engines for particulates. It is the turbo petrol which are the culprit resulting very fine particulates even more damaging than those from diesel but why let the truth get in the way? I am not sure non- turbo engines are an issue. Synthetic and bio diesel is very clean but the politicians have fallen for the electric is saintly, diesel is the devil propaganda. 

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On 4/30/2022 at 9:44 PM, Flatcoat said:

Synthetic and bio diesel is very clean

Prove it. 

Very easy to slag off politicians, but science is hard to blag, and personally everything I've read suggests that synthetic fuels in real world usage result in largely similar problems to fossil fuels - one recent study showed whilst tailpipe particulates are better, they're definitely not eliminated (and NOx is the same, Carbon Monoxide is worse, and there's a series of other pollutants/health hazards generated). 

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/magic-green-fuels-why-synthetic-fuels-in-cars-will-not-solve-europes-pollution-problems/

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/e-fuels-testing-criticisms-debunked/

Burning things in any format is inescapably tied to inefficiency when analysed in real world applications - an EV motor efficiency is tied to heat, but doesn't become more polluting as it drops off, whereas the same cannot be said for ICE of any format. 

You may argue synthetic fuels are CO2 neutral, but whilst one can make the grid greener (for EVs), one can't make the science of burning stuff any different/"cleaner". Another argument is that it should be viewed as a stepping stone for all the ICE cars still on the roads, or countries where EV infrastructure is not practical, and many of these things are sound ideas superficially, however multinational corporations don't become successful by investing hugely in novel technologies unless they expect many years/decades of consumer payback/revenue, and considering one of major investors is porsche (and thus the VW group)... Who also largely own IONITY (Europe-wide charging network)... And charging  infrastructure is the massive achilles heel of EV adoption.......................

[See where I'm going with this 😂?] 

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11 hours ago, Mike2222 said:

Prove it. 

Very easy to slag off politicians, but science is hard to blag, and personally everything I've read suggests that synthetic fuels in real world usage result in largely similar problems to fossil fuels - one recent study showed whilst tailpipe particulates are better, they're definitely not eliminated (and NOx is the same, Carbon Monoxide is worse, and there's a series of other pollutants/health hazards generated). 

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/magic-green-fuels-why-synthetic-fuels-in-cars-will-not-solve-europes-pollution-problems/

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/e-fuels-testing-criticisms-debunked/

Burning things in any format is inescapably tied to inefficiency when analysed in real world applications - an EV motor efficiency is tied to heat, but doesn't become more polluting as it drops off, whereas the same cannot be said for ICE of any format. 

You may argue synthetic fuels are CO2 neutral, but whilst one can make the grid greener (for EVs), one can't make the science of burning stuff any different/"cleaner". Another argument is that it should be viewed as a stepping stone for all the ICE cars still on the roads, or countries where EV infrastructure is not practical, and many of these things are sound ideas superficially, however multinational corporations don't become successful by investing hugely in novel technologies unless they expect many years/decades of consumer payback/revenue, and considering one of major investors is porsche (and thus the VW group)... Who also largely own IONITY (Europe-wide charging network)... And charging  infrastructure is the massive achilles heel of EV adoption...... 

..................... 

[See where I'm going with this 😂?] 

 

I didn’t say it was spotless but it is a cleaner and more practical interim solution for the real world (as opposed to the unrealistic nirvana of the religion of Greta-ism) than EV’s are in their current form. And neither are EV’s truly clean and green. Scientific theories and facts evolve and scientific consensus isn’t scientific fact. It’s only 60 years ago that smoking was deemed good for your health! 

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It's s tricky one as aside from biodiesel, most synthetic fuels require lots of energy to create/refine which puts them in the same ball park as hydrogen. If the hydrocarbons are made from atmospheric/sea sources (And there has been some research into genetically engineering microbes to extract CO2 from water and essentially excrete oil, but not much progress) then it becomes part of the carbon cycle and would be overall beneficial, but currently most of the sources are either waste plastics or biomass which is not so good.

Changing cars isn't a fantastic answer either as suddenly replacing every existing car with a new one, even an EV or hybrid, would create far more emissions than they would save.

The fact is there is no silver bullet, short of maybe global nuclear war (no humans - no problems!). It's a bit like that EVs vs hybrids conundrum - Is it better to build lots of hybrids that reduce emissions slightly for a lot of people, or a few EVs that completely eliminate emissions for a few? Diversifying strategies is probably the best thing we can do.

 

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