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Tyre Advice


Saxacat
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My RAV came fitted with with Toyo Proxes R46a  225/55R19 tyres.

On delivery they were inflated to either 40 or 44psi, can't quite remember which; I assumed this might have been for transit/storage.

The manual and info plate on the car say 33 psi is the correct pressure; so over the last 12 months I have kept them at 33psi.

The manual suggests rotating the wheels on the vehicle every 3000mles; I did this at the 3000 mile point but haven't done it since.

Yesterday the car was serviced, it has done just short of 7000 miles. The tyres were checked; the report said each tyre had 6.5mm inside, 7mm centre and 6.5mm outside.

Since all the tyres read the same, I'm wondering whether its worth the hassle of the rotation (I don't have a spare, so its a bit of a pain to do).

Also, the wear seems to indicate I'm under-inflating the tyres and I see that the garage has adjusted the inflation to 39psi.

So what are the thoughts on rotation and correct tyre pressures?

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Hi Edward, I have the same vehicle with the same tyres. 6300mls

I have been keeping mine at 34psi/245kpa as I find this gives a reasonably good ride.

My first service is booked next week, so not really sure what they'll do re rotation and tyre pressures.

My own feeling is that rotating every 3000mls is a bit overkill, and I would be happy for it to be done at each service. Did the dealer rotate yours at the service ?

Also I find the Toyo proxies incredibly noisy, to the extent that it's putting myself and my wife off the car, how do you find them ?

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I've never bothered rotating my tyres and tend to up the pressures a bit over standard.

My old D4D was rated for 32-35 PSI IIRC, but I found it was wearing the shoulders more - Upped it to 38 and it wore much more evenly and got me some extra mpg too!

Tried the same on my 1.33VVTi and found it made the car very skittish when cornering so went back to stock PSI.

Now on my Mk4 I'm currently running 40PSI - To be fair this is what the manual says for the 15" rims I put on it, but the dealer keeps putting it to 32 PSI (Which is what it was on the 17" rims the car came with). The handling and general feel of the car is much better at 40PSI than 32, which also give the tyres that bulgy sidewall look - The Mk4 is very heavy for a Yaris, first one I've owned that was well over a ton!

It's a good rule of thumb to start at stock, but it's perfectly safe to go a few PSI over to find your own optimum. Just make sure you know what they tyre's rated maximum is (Should be on the sidewall), and stay well away from that!

 

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5 hours ago, Saxacat said:

So what are the thoughts on rotation and correct tyre pressures?

I run at 34 psi - the car seems to ride well one-up and unloaded, and can equally tolerate a reasonable load.

I've never seen the point of tyre rotation. OK, if you have a full size spare, and non-directional tyres, rotating all five will equalise wear and get good use out of the spare. There's little to no point if you have a space-saver spare and even less if you have a can of junk. And to add to the mix, I run Cross Climates; they are directional tyres so all I could do is swap front to rear.

As you've noted, the AWD RAV4 tends to wear fronts and rears at a pretty similar rate and is really quite gentle on its tyres anyway. If I did get to the point that I needed a new set of fronts, I'd swap the tyres front to back and put the new ones on the rear - in order the get rid of the oldest tyres first ...

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Mine is due a service next week and they asked I make sure the locking wheel nut was available as they would rotate the wheels, I assumed just front to back rather than diagonal? 

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19 hours ago, Saxacat said:

The manual suggests rotating the wheels on the vehicle every 3000mles; I did this at the 3000 mile point but haven't done it since.

Yesterday the car was serviced, it has done just short of 7000 miles. The tyres were checked; the report said each tyre had 6.5mm inside, 7mm centre and 6.5mm outside.

The difficulty drawing a conclusion from your current evidence base is that you have already done a tyre rotation, at roughly half of your total current mileage, so all one can say is that you what evened out any differences OR that there would have been no difference if you hadn't changed, but we can't know which! 

Given the significant difference in bhp from front and back motors, one might expect faster wear on the front set, however I think the rear motor is still capable of a hefty amount of torque. Best to keep an eye on things and rotate if starting to get uneven wear, tho if as Ernie says Toyota will do it for you at service time, with your mileage you may never really answer this question! 

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12 hours ago, philip42h said:

As you've noted, the AWD RAV4 tends to wear fronts and rears at a pretty similar rate and is really quite gentle on its tyres anyway.

That's very true, i had my 1st service Friday, and al 4 tyres have a 7mm thread remaining, so no point in swapping back to front.

Mine is AWD i might add...

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14 hours ago, philip42h said:

If I did get to the point that I needed a new set of fronts, I'd swap the tyres front to back and put the new ones on the rear - in order the get rid of the oldest tyres first ...

Each to their own, but this is not an especially safe strategy - a recipe for dangerous/unexpected understeer in slippy conditions. Both axles can propel the car but only one can steer! If cornering and the fronts are losing grip but the back motor engages, this will simply accelerate you into the ditch (or worse, oncoming traffic, depending on right or left corner). News on front with olds on back gives risk of oversteer, which is equally problematic, perhaps worse as risk of fishtailing in emergency stop in straight line as well. 

And imbalances get worse if mixing tyre types, as I don't think anyone who has posted on here so far has expressed a desire to replace with the OEM option when the time comes! 

It may never happen to the 99% of ppl who do this with tyres, but then again, everyone with a mortgage has buildings insurance, but 99% of homeowners have never had their house hit by a car/tree/spontaneously fall down. 

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21 minutes ago, Mike2222 said:

Each to their own, but this is not an especially safe strategy - a recipe for dangerous/unexpected understeer in slippy conditions. Both axles can propel the car but only one can steer! If cornering and the fronts are losing grip but the back motor engages, this will simply accelerate you into the ditch (or worse, oncoming traffic, depending on right or left corner). News on front with olds on back gives risk of oversteer, which is equally problematic, perhaps worse as risk of fishtailing in emergency stop in straight line as well. 

 

And imbalances get worse if mixing tyre types, as I don't think anyone who has posted on here so far has expressed a desire to replace with the OEM option when the time comes! 

 

It may never happen to the 99% of ppl who do this with tyres, but then again, everyone with a mortgage has buildings insurance, but 99% of homeowners have never had their house hit by a car/tree/spontaneously fall down. 

Er ... no ...

I'm not advocating running on tyres that are so dangerously low on tread as to seriously risk loosing grip. I'd change at around 3mm tread irrespective of whether it was a front or rear tyre.

And, I understand that the average driver is better able to control understeer than they are oversteer should either situation arise. But it won't if you change tyres when they need changing and drive sensibly according to the conditions.

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1 hour ago, philip42h said:

I'm not advocating running on tyres that are so dangerously low on tread

Sorry, Internet communications tend to run risk of coming across as admonishing etc when they're not. Not having a go, simply adding information to the discussion of whether to rotate tyres or not. You had remarked that you don't see the point in rotating, and would be inclined to allow your tyres to wear down to the point of replacement, which you have now clarified as 3mm, a perfectly sensible threshold, however others may not share your safety margins or driving style, and awd can give a false sense of security in inclement conditions, because it helps to get the car going and in most circumstances turning as well, but does zero to help the car stop/slow down (altho it occurs to me that the rear electric motor can apply some regeneration, so this could change the dynamics on that sense). Usually the four patches of rubber are all that helps in this case, and all tyres regardless of all weather/winter/summer etc, become eless effective as they wear. 

In this context, a moderate rotation strategy is more likely to even out differences in wear, and lead to all tyres being replaced at same time. My post was intended to highlight that particularly in an awd car, there are advantages to rotation. 

I agree, however, in the case of the current gen Rav4, getting too worked up about it (rotation) is likely a waste of time/energy/money tho. 

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The rotation of tyres to even out west on AWD is critical on some older 4x4’s with less sophisticated systems. Some Landrovers for example. I was horrified to once see a Touareg on a VW dealer forecourt with 3 different tyre brands and all different tread depths. The salesman simply couldn’t get why I walked away from it. 

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1 hour ago, philip42h said:

Er ... no ...

I'm not advocating running on tyres that are so dangerously low on tread as to seriously risk loosing grip. I'd change at around 3mm tread irrespective of whether it was a front or rear tyre.

And, I understand that the average driver is better able to control understeer than they are oversteer should either situation arise. But it won't if you change tyres when they need changing and drive sensibly according to the conditions.

I have never rotated the tyres on my vehicles and always replace well before the tyres reach the block in the tread which I believe is set at 2mm. 

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Thanks for the replies

23 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

 

Also I find the Toyo proxies incredibly noisy, to the extent that it's putting myself and my wife off the car, how do you find them ?

I don't have anything to compare them to, noise wise, but I don't think they would have been my first choice of tyre.

22 hours ago, Cyker said:

 

It's a good rule of thumb to start at stock, but it's perfectly safe to go a few PSI over to find your own optimum. Just make sure you know what they tyre's rated maximum is (Should be on the sidewall), and stay well away from that!

 

I'm going to leave them at the 38psi set by the dealer and keep an eye on the wear.

 

My only previous experience of an AWD vehicle was a Isuzu Trooper I owned many years ago; the uneven tyre wear on that was awful, which is why I was initially keen to do the rotation thing on the RAV. I'm also hoping to hand this car back at the 3 year point with its original tyres on it, although whether that's realistic I'm not sure.

 

 

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10 hours ago, ernieb said:

Mine is due a service next week and they asked I make sure the locking wheel nut was available as they would rotate the wheels, I assumed just front to back rather than diagonal? 

This is the recommended rotation procedure...

tyre rotation.jpg

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2 hours ago, Saxacat said:

This is the recommended rotation procedure...

tyre rotation.jpg

... which is absolutely fine for non-directional tyres.

To do this for directional tyres, one would need to remove the tyres from the rear rims and refit them the other way around. Or, as Ernie suggests, simply swap front to rear keeping the wheels on the same side of the car.

😉

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When rotating tyres, you need to follow the manufacturer advice. Some AWD cars do not like tyres rotation, VW Golf R comes to mind.
I have two fwd cars and rotate tyres every service, and it helps to get more miles out of the tyres. As an example, I put Michelin CrossClimate+ on Auris MK2 about 24K miles ago, and they have been rotated twice.  Last time front were just above 3.5mm and rears 5.5mm, by rotating them I will get a few more miles out of them, they will be about 4 years old when they need changing. As philip42 said, Michelin CC+ are directional tyres and can only be swapped on the same side. I have not noticed any abnormal tyre wear on them, and it is a second set. Did the same on my FWD 2019 RAV4 MK5 with Bridgestones and at 20k all tyres were at 4mm and wearing evenly.
As for the tyre pressure in RAV4, I find that standard 33psi is way too soft and makes steering less direct. 36psi works better for me.

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I see a few comments re the  recommended 33psi pressure too soft ?

I run at 34psi, but may try 36psi to see the difference in handling and also road noise 👍

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The tyre pressure impact on ride/handling may vary with tyre brand too. I am looking for a softer ride on the rear when towing so am sticking with the 33psi for now. I also need to research tyres with softer side walls to help given I am getting no where with finding aftermarket shockers. 

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With the OEM tyre on the PHEV I find that 33psi is the best ride higher and I notice the road more.

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2 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

I see a few comments re the  recommended 33psi pressure too soft ?

I run at 34psi, but may try 36psi to see the difference in handling and also road noise 👍

You will likely to get more road noise and worse handling. Best to stick with recommended numbers and very important to set correct pressures on cold in the morning preferably before the sun sees the car and before driving off. The sun can offset the pressures a lot. I have my car parked on the drive and on sunny days the pressures goes easily up to 2.4 bar and above from 2.3 set previously. But even with that the tyres become very soft and the drive is quiet and soft. 👍 Who asked for softer tyres can look at Goodyear, they do very soft walls and good tyres indeed. 
https://www.goodyear.eu/en_gb/consumer/tires/efficientgrip_2_suv/225-60-18-100-H-4038526076342.html

https://www.goodyear.eu/en_gb/consumer/tires/results.html?w=235&h=55&r=19&l=101&s=V&type=size

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Whenever I set the tyre pressures I make sure that there is no sun, prefer a cloudy day where the temperature is even. As Tony said above the sun can make a massive difference and if the car is in the sun one side and shade the over the pressure will be be all over the place.

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Just bear this in mind when changing tyre pressures from those the manufacturer reccommends. If you have a serious accident the first thing the police do is check your tyre pressues as part of the evidence gathering process as to how the accident happened and any potential prosecution case. How do I know this? I spent 30 years in the Fire Service and have seen it more times than i care to mention and the second reason, one of my best mates has just retired after 30 years in the Police and has spent the last 20 as a traffic cop, he was also the SIO (senior investigating officer) and coeverd 3 counties for serious and fatal accident investigation. His simple message "stick to what the manufacturer reccomends and not what you think you know, or you could very well end up in the dock" 

 

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Running at 1 , 2 or 3 psi above the recommended value assumes we all have accurate tyre pressure gauges. 33 psi on one gauge could be 35 psi on another. Does anyone get their gauge calibrated ? I’ve never done so. Tend to replace after a few years 

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1 hour ago, robo1 said:

Running at 1 , 2 or 3 psi above the recommended value assumes we all have accurate tyre pressure gauges. 33 psi on one gauge could be 35 psi on another. Does anyone get their gauge calibrated ? I’ve never done so. Tend to replace after a few years 

I understand but you and I don't investigate accidents or enforcement traffic law, but as I said the man who did for 3 counties up until March this year is one of my best mates and I have no reason not to believe him.  Like I said I have witnessed it in the last 30 years with my own eyes. Of course discrepancies between gauges will be taken into account but going anything over 3psi could land you in bother.

 

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Why would anybody go outwith the settings recommended by the manufacturer?

Some people seem to think their car needs to be serviced more frequently than recommended and have a different grade of oil than the recommended one and so it goes on. 
It’s best to stick to what it says in your handbook imho.

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