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If you were to go back in time would you still have chosen the hybrid or would you have gone for a small turbo petrol of which there are now many?

I like the idea of the hybrid and have not been put off by the droning engine under heavy accelerating comments often mentioned in negative video reviews, i like auto boxes (works vehicle has one)  but this is a different thing altogether did  owners here find the drone annoying at first do you notice it now, is it down to bad driving by these negative reviewers causing the problem?

Thanks in advance.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

If you were to go back in time would you still have chosen the hybrid or would you have gone for a small turbo petrol of which there are now many?

I like the idea of the hybrid and have not been put off by the droning engine under heavy accelerating comments often mentioned in negative video reviews, i like auto boxes (works vehicle has one)  but this is a different thing altogether did  owners here find the drone annoying at first do you notice it now, is it down to bad driving by these negative reviewers causing the problem?

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Hybrid, first, second and third. The drone is not there if driven correctly. Always ignore a criticism from a motoring journalist.Never buy a car with a turbo.

Toyota Hybrids give one peace of mind, make one a more relaxed, respectful and confident driver and instills a sense of caring for the Planet.

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I have done both 1.4 turbo and 1.5 hybrid, the hybrid does double or better MPG, hybrid is a totally different driving style, when you spend most of the time in traffic or 30/40/50 mph roads hybrid makes sense

it can get a bit wearing at motorway speeds for long periods of time tho

 

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8 minutes ago, flash22 said:

it can get a bit wearing at motorway speeds for long periods of time tho

Thanks for the honest reply, i don't intend to do much motorway driving its fairly rural round here so 30 - 50 mph is the norm.

Our lass  says i am as deaf as a post so it may not bother me much if i have to go on the motorway 

(i call it selective hearing)  😉

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If I could go back 18 month knowing what I no now I’d go for a Prius 100% . Up until then didn’t really now much about hybrids but did consider a rav 4 hybrid but the whole change scared me so went for a basic petrol . 
this forum has changed my view now realising how good they really are 

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Hybrids have always made more sense to me - The problem is it's only recently with the current gen HSD that I've felt they were set up 'correctly'.

IMHO turbos just don't work in petrol cars except where pure performance is the goal at the expense of everything else. They have to have so many compromises (Lower compression ratios, deliberate overfuelling to reduce knock, lots of cooling to stop it melting itself etc.) to make them work it's just not worth it.

Diesels are where turbochargers really shine as there are almost no downsides or compromises needed by comparison and almost all advantages. The fact that diesels have had variable turbos for over a decade, which practically eliminate lag and let them work at all speeds, while petrols are still stuck with the same fixed turbos and have to compromise between lag or choking the top-end just shows how fundamentally unsuitable they are.

For any kind of motive power, electric motors have always been  far superior to any other kind of motor - More power and torque in a smaller, lighter package than any other kind of motor; Their only weakness is a reliance on electricity, which we still have no way of storing as well as we can with chemical energy, but when paired with an ICE you get the best of both worlds, esp. as both engines can support each other, reducing the burden and wear across their lifetimes - Despite naysayers say it's twice as many things to go wrong, hybrids have consistently proven to be in the top percentiles for reliability - Even beating out most EVs!

IMHO Toyota's biggest mistake with hybrids was trying to engineer them for economy instead of power in the beginning - The early ones were really un-fun to drive and weren't even that efficient compared to diesel and they've never been able to shake off that stigma, even now (Despite my best efforts :naughty: ); If they'd only used more powerful electric motors from the get-go I think it would have helped a lot, would have probably made them more efficient too!

I feel like we've really been lagging behind for mpg improvement - I'm so used to having a 60+mpg car from my Mk1 D4D, now about 17 years old (!!) and it doesn't feel like we've made much progress at all - We're still only just beating it now with things like the Mk4. I honestly thought we'd be in the low 100's by now when I first got that D4D!

Of course it's mostly moot since we're shifting to pure EVs, but even EV efficiency has been going the wrong way - We had ones capable of averaging 4-5miles/kWh but for some reason that has been dropping with each new EV and now 2-3 average is considered good! Does not bode well for my yaris-sized can-do-300-miles-at-70mph-in-winter EV criteria...!

 

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Toyota Hybrids classed as completely different from all other makes and models , a unique technology that is the best in the business and closest thing to full electric cars not only as driving experience, reliability but also with minimal maintenance required. I am a motorway driver and I use Auris hybrid for my business travel, 200+ miles a day, every day since 2018. Drowning noises are only the negative talk by the press and those who live in last century motoring world 📸🏛🛞

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If model is not a consideration, but a pure EV is unsuitable, then hybrid is the answer but I would look for the one with the largest hybrid Battery

I was surprised to find Corollas have several Battery sizes.  I guess the larger Battery will give you the better consumption. 

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Ironically it's the other way around! The smaller the hybrid Battery the better the mpg will be (For normal hybrids anyway; It's a bit more complicated with PHEVs).

The biggest enemy of MPG is weight, and batteries are heavy!

But it turns out with a hybrid, you don't need a big Battery - The Battery is there purely to capture wasted energy from the engine, and as soon as it gets 'full' you can switch off the engine and use up that energy.

Case in point - The Mk4 Yaris has the smallest traction battery of any Toyota hybrid sold to date - It's not even 1 kWh: Barely 700watt-hours! Not even enough to run the average kettle for half an hour! Even the Mk3 Yaris hybrid has a bigger battery, at 1300kWh, and I think even the original Prius had a bigger battery!

Yet the Mk4 is easily the most efficient hybrid you can buy right now - I don't know any hybrid you can hoon around on country roads and still return over 70mpg, and plenty of people have seen over 80mpg in them driving mostly normally in summer!

I think Toyota had a moment of genius and realized that they didn't need a big battery, and that the small battery has a lot of surprise advantages: Aside from being much lighter and cheaper and using less resources than a bigger battery, it also means the engine has to cycle on more often which keeps it at its most efficient operating temperature - If the battery was bigger, the car would run on MG2-power for longer and the engine would cool down too much and loose efficiency.

It is slightly dissatisfying, as you can't hold high speeds on MG2 for very long because of the smaller capacity, or even drive in 'EV mode' for any useful length of time like e.g. the Auris hybrid can, but since I'm getting over 400 miles out of about 26 litres of fuel on average I can't really complain!! :laugh: 

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On 5/24/2022 at 9:29 PM, Cyker said:

electricity, which we still have no way of storing as well as we can with chemical energy

 

On 5/25/2022 at 6:32 PM, Cyker said:

The biggest enemy of MPG is weight, and batteries are heavy!

This ☝️! 👍👍

 

Likely to be the next great scientific challenge (or advancement, if can be solved without serious environmental damage from mining rare earth minerals etc) of our time. Personal vehicles/cars are one thing, but freight (road/rail/air) & international travel/transport is a massive hurdle for ev tech, but likewise would be a gamechanger for sustainability/environmentally. 

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I read Cyker's piece with interest. I wonder at the various engine variations used by Toyota.  The Corolla offers two engines, one with 4x500cc pots and one with 4x450cc.  In contrast the Yaris Cross has just 3x500cc.

OTOH several other companies use around 1ltr engines. 

Obviously the Corolla with  2ltr engine has plenty of poke although I find the 1.8 is plenty for my purposes. 

Keeping the question simple, what are the comparative advantages and disadvantages of the Yaris 1.5ltr?

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On 5/24/2022 at 8:21 PM, Max_Headroom said:

If you were to go back in time would you still have chosen the hybrid or would you have gone for a small turbo petrol of which there are now many?

 

 

 

 If I could go back in time I would have never have bought my last car which came with multiple Honest John recommendations & was 4 years in a row winner of engine of the year award in its size class. 

Ill never have another small capacity turbo petrol engine again.

Peugeot Purecrap, everyone I've known that's owned one has had issues either with the wet timing belt failing or carbon contamination fouling the engine internals & all under 45k miles.

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Are small petrol turbo engines reliable?
I often read your technical questions section and see lots of issues with turbos on diesel engines. Do the same issues arise on cars fitted with petrol engines? I note most manufacturers now seem to be selling small cars with a small engine size and fitted with a turbo. What are the good and bad points regarding petrol turbos?
537450_458533677529584_1473549666_n.jpg Answered by Honest John
Petrol turbos would otherwise run hotter so are water-cooled and there can be problems with the water cooling. Ford 1.0 EcoBoosts have had trouble with this. So far, Peugeot/Citroen's PureTechs seem to be the best, but, like EcoBoosts, are held together by timing belts in oil and those belts will not last forever.
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The Purecrap if used for short journeys will dilute its oil with excess fuel.

The turbocharged versions being direct injection only they carbon up the inlet valves requiring the inlet manifold removing & walnut Shell blasting to remove the carbon. 

The wet timing belts degrade, block the lubrication system & destroy the engine - there throw away engines & not worth rebuilding. 

The wet timing belt replacement interval was reduced down to 62500 miles / 6 years & its currently on belt revision number 4.

As for the Ecoboom / Aquaboost - my mechanic friend left Ford as he was sick of replacing the engines, although he could knock them out quicker the book time.

 

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I bet he saved on gym fees manhandling those things in and out of the engine bay so frequently! Probably balanced out by all the replacement torn gloves and plasters for skinned knuckles tho'...

I still can't get over that wet belts are a thing... :wacko:

 

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