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costings advice needed following service...


pdg330
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Hi guys,

Hoping some of you will be able to help me here...

My car (2013 Auris touring excel) has just had a full service at Toyota Vertu in Leicester (not sure if anyone else is from there on here?).

Completed to the tune of £700.

First things first, it failed its MOT due to a rear caliper binding - any ideas what might cause this?   The car is usually parked on our drive, which is steep, and I have the handbrake on fairly tight.  I actually noticed the alarm going off randomly on a couple of occasions over the last few years - supposedly it can inch forward a few mm and trigger it under certain temperature changes but no idea really.   

Anyway, the upshot is it needed new rear brake discs and pads - costing around £270.   I seem to remember paying this for the FRONTS a few years ago, so guessing prices have gone up - is this likely to be a lot cheaper at an independent?    Anyway I agreed to it as didn't want to delay and needed to get it through its MOT.

The other issues were suspension bushes, which are supposedly deteriorating slightly but not hugely urgent.   I couldn't believe what I was hearing when they said these were an eye-watering £340 each.   I'll confess though I have no idea what these look like - I have viewed the service video they sent to me by email and they say you can 'see it lifting up slightly on the corner' but no, watched it many times and have no idea what this part even looks like, let alone what the technician means.    What I'd like to query is the price - my brother was shocked and said it's 'only a bush' but when querying with the tech guy on the phone, he said they are not small bushes and are supposedly part of the arm but I just don't know what to believe here.     Really hope someone can advise and whether it will be much cheaper getting these replaced at an independent rather than the dealer.      The car does creak noticeably when moving from a slope onto the flat and vice-versa.   They say it's not a major concern though.

If the independent route would be much cheaper then if someone could recommend a good one in the Leicestershire area I would be very grateful indeed.

Thanks all.

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What mileage has the car done? Private use or taxi?

If not a taxi, and the mileage is less than 100,000, the car should also have the benefit of a warranty extension to the hybrid Battery, and a 1 year/10,000 mile warranty extension under Toyota's Relax scheme.

The cost of rear brake discs/pads is probably under Toyota's fixed price repair scheme.

 

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Rear caliper binding - fairly common wear and tear on a car of your age. 

While it may have been able to be solved with a strip and clean of the rear brakes - if the rear discs and pads are low and heavily corroded it's best to change them at the same time. Remember that as a main dealer their approach might be to perform maintenance on your car to see you through to the next time you see them which could be as long as a year. 

Genuine parts (bushes) will always be pricy, but then what you're getting is quality. Labour charges at a main dealer aren't cheap - assuming due to the various overheads a franchise dealer has to account for. 

You could always source genuine parts yourself and get them fitted at a decent independent garage, or go to an independent to get a quote for the bushes - just remember that they might even say there's nothing wrong with them and you don't need to change them yet. Please don't assume that the main dealer have fobbed you off - it might be that they want you to be able to drive your car safely for the next 12 months before your next visit. If the bush wears out during the next 12 months and you don't realise, it could cause further damage etc or merely result in you having to take time out of daily life to visit the dealer to get it sorted. 

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On the whole it doesn’t sound extortionate. Prices for brakes presumably include fitting.  If the tech said the bushes were part of the suspension arms then that could mean they will replace the suspension arm. Again, then the price is to be expected. As has been mentioned, the bushes may very well last many more miles but the tech needs to let you know if he/she has seen that it is wearing out. The only thing you really need to ask is : is it dangerous to continue to drive with worn bushes?  Probably not.  

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While it is impossible to give a definitive answer without actually seeing the problems my long term experience of things like this is that main dealers tend to phrase and choose their words carefully to try and get you to have work done.

I experienced this with our Corolla some years ago when it was in for service and MOT. A phone call went something like 'we have it on the ramps and the rear discs are corroded, we can do that now for you'.

When I got the MOT certificate I could see the time on the certificate was an hour or so earlier than the call from them. The MOT advisories simply said 'corrosion on rear discs, structural integrity not affected'.

An independent I've used for a few years has mentioned rear bushes, corroded coil springs, all the usual things and he just says that they are obliged (actually under pressure by the testing agency) to note these but they are not an issue requiring attention at this time... and its 20 years old next MOT.

The other thing I noticed with Toyota is that they always wanted to do some kind of brake work, usually saying the discs would benefit from skimming.

 

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14 hours ago, pdg330 said:

Hi guys,

.  

The other issues were suspension bushes, which are supposedly deteriorating slightly but not hugely urgent.   I couldn't believe what I was hearing when they said these were an eye-watering £340 each.   I'll confess though I have no idea what these look like - I have viewed the service video they sent to me by email and they say you can 'see it lifting up slightly on the corner' but no, watched it many times and have no idea what this part even looks like, let alone what the technician means.    What I'd like to query is the price - my brother was shocked and said it's 'only a bush' but when querying with the tech guy on the phone, he said they are not small bushes and are supposedly part of the arm but I just don't know what to believe here.     

I had a similar advisory on my MOT in February and was quoted a similar price. The issue seems to be that Toyota supplies only the whole control arm, not the bush on its own. Got a second opinion and they said they same thing. You might be able to find an independent who will replace just the bushes.

While I was thinking about this, I watched a video on the CarCare Nut Youtube channel (a Toyota specialist) and he seemed to suggest that the bushes can go for years in a worn state.

Car is due its service next month so I’ll see if the dealer flags it up again. Mine has done 57000 miles so I’m a bit surprised that the bushes should need replaced already.

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If it's the buses in the wishbones, this video might help explain what they're talking about:

 

 

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The other issues were suspension bushes, which are supposedly deteriorating slightly but not hugely urgent.   I couldn't believe what I was hearing when they said these were an eye-watering £340 each. 

If you're talking about the rear axle bushings, then I have to say that it was not expensive at all, taking into account that the service was made by a Toyota dealer...

I replaced mine, bought aftermarket ones (maybe a mistake), and it so happens it is somewhat of a pain to replace those things. The rear axle of the vehicle had to be removed of the car. After that, the old ones have to be removed (another pain). And after that, the new ones have to be very well installed (also difficult).

I had all of this done on a Bosch garage, and though I did not pay that much, I still paid a hefty sum.

In my case, so far the replacements seem alright, but if you go Toyota all the way, you have quality assurance, that a Bosch garage does not.

Of course, the Toyota prices are alway heftier. You just have to deal with it.

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No, it is the front suspension, not the rear.    The lower rear bush on the front suspension.

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5 hours ago, mcntosh said:

Mine has done 57000 miles so I’m a bit surprised that the bushes should need replaced already.

 

Mileage on mine is 60,000 so very similar.

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On 5/31/2022 at 9:42 PM, APS said:

On the whole it doesn’t sound extortionate. Prices for brakes presumably include fitting.  If the tech said the bushes were part of the suspension arms then that could mean they will replace the suspension arm. Again, then the price is to be expected. As has been mentioned, the bushes may very well last many more miles but the tech needs to let you know if he/she has seen that it is wearing out. The only thing you really need to ask is : is it dangerous to continue to drive with worn bushes?  Probably not.  

Thanks for the advice here.   I wonder under what circumstances they would deem replacement as 'urgent' then re: the bushes?    I will ask Toyota whether the bush is part of the arm as well.

Yes, the price for the rear brakes (270) was inclusive of fitting.

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5 hours ago, mcntosh said:

Car is due its service next month so I’ll see if the dealer flags it up again.

Let me know what they say.

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19 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Full service £340

MOT £54.85

Plus £270 for brakes 

Total - £664.85 approx.

They also did a clean of the fuel system and air con taking it to past 700.

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On 5/31/2022 at 8:34 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

What mileage has the car done? Private use or taxi?

If not a taxi, and the mileage is less than 100,000, the car should also have the benefit of a warranty extension to the hybrid battery, and a 1 year/10,000 mile warranty extension under Toyota's Relax scheme.

The cost of rear brake discs/pads is probably under Toyota's fixed price repair scheme.

60,000 miles.   Private use.    Not sure about the warranty extension but they do a hybrid Battery health check each year, not sure that is charged for if that's what you mean.

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17 hours ago, pdg330 said:

60,000 miles.   Private use.    Not sure about the warranty extension but they do a hybrid battery health check each year, not sure that is charged for if that's what you mean.

The hybrid health check is included as part of the service. The warranty will be extended if it's passed the check.

The Relax warranty should be extended if they found no major problems (the warranty probably won't cover the bushes as that's wear and tear).

However given the car's age, you may hit the 10 year/100000 mile limit before the 1 year / 10000 mile extension runs out.

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Why the fuel system clean? When I had a Peugeot as a company car a few years ago, it was serviced at the main dealer. Almost every time it came back requiring something like wheel bearings, wipers, fuel system service etc etc. I never believed this or authorised it, and somehow the"faults"had disappeared by the next service and there would be a different "fault"found. Moral is don't trust the dealers!

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These bushes in question can lasts ages or can be wear off in short time all depends of where and how the car been used. They also comes with the whole suspension arm, can be changed separately too but it is a labour consuming process and it will cost the same as brand new arm. Oem arms cost high but also are the best ones and lasts longest. Aftermarket quality replacement also considered, names like blueprint, trw, febi, first line etc. 

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It is tricky; Usually a good idea to make them to show you it so you can see what condition it's in before making a decision - The Mk1 Yaris had a tendency to chew through its ARB droplinks, but really it was the outside that just looked awful; It still did its job and didn't actually need changing most of the time.

With the change to E10, fuel system cleans should almost never be needed in a petrol car as the ethanol is already a fairly strong solvent and will attack any deposits anyway (Hence why ethanol-resistant fuel lines and seals are needed now, lest they get attacked too!)

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