Driving with the aircon on

[Cyker]

When you get through as much of it as I do, it's hard to not be bothered about it! Anything to reduce consumption and save some pennies is worth it!! (I think I'm on track for an annual total fuel bill of well over £2k this year  My Mk1 was less than half that, although the Mk2 was about the same; Yet another reason that pushed me to drop it and get the Mk4!)

That said it's a bit annoying that I've nearly halved my fuel consumption from previous cars but yet am paying more for it!

[FROSTYBALLS]

When I passed my test in 1975, petrol was around 73 pence per gallon (16 pence per litre). So it has gone up a bit since then ......

[Cyker]

I jealous  

(Only for the fuel price tho... I think on balance I'd prefer modern cars )

I think my first tank was in the region of 70-80p/L!!

[TonyHSD]

Obviously someones has interest to make private cars ownership and use a luxury, taking us back 150 years backwards. The things is that with fuel goes ultra expensive, cars too people are driving more than ever and more cars on the roads plus no one seems to drive efficiently, especially the lorries, vans, buses, those are unstoppable these days. 

[Hornet3D]

Just filled up the Aygo with E5 which is now at £199.9 per litre, well I guess it is not £2 a liter, it was also a Shell station so we had a £1 off voucher.

[TonyHSD]

11 minutes ago, Hornet3D said:

Just filled up the Aygo with E5 which is now at £199.9 per litre, well I guess it is not £2 a liter, it was also a Shell station so we had a £1 off voucher.

That’s too expensive. I was using Tesco E5 99 as it was the same price as BP E10 and the car was driving better, I can’t get any Tesco’s fuel right now and using only BP E10 which seems to be the best of all E10’s I ever used. 

[Cyker]

Oookaay so it turns out when it gets to this sort of temperature the AC *does* have a more noticeable effect on the fuel economy! The past 2 days dropped me from 81 to 73mpg tank average!  

The poor car just can't keep the Battery at the 50% mark because the AC running even on Eco just sucks the juice out of it too quickly, dropping it to 3 bars and triggering the engine.

It's quite a difference from when I looked at it before - I could run the AC for 10 minutes per bar while stationary, but in this heat it's more like 1 minute!

The most annoying thing is the timing of the engine firing up always seems to coincide with when I stopped! It's not so bad if the engine is running while I'm moving, but when it fires up after you've stopped... ugh... so noisy and unrefined!

Makes me wish I'd gone home via the M25 instead of the A406!

I really wish I could change the parameters of when it decides to charge and up to how much (I'd make it charge up to 5-6 blocks once it starts, but not start the engine while stationary until 2!), or even better replace the useless EV-mode button with a Charge button so I can force it to charge while I'm moving and stop it when I'm stationary!

Soo hooottt 

[Chris Boddum]

Just to return to the original question for a minute - I've dealt with that issue / feature of the Aygo and I made a thread not too long ago about it as well. It's (mostly) just how it is. I decided to try adding slightly less gas o the AC system (I believe 340-360g is recommended, I tried with 280g) and it seems to cool just fine with just a little less hiccups during driving (none noticeable at highway speeds or when cruising in city in fifth gear, slight hiccups in fourth while cruising at 50 km/h). 

You can definitely still feel it when setting off if it kicks in at the wrong time, but it's not too bad. 

[Wiz201]

On 6/16/2022 at 5:51 PM, Cyker said:

Yea, it's quite a big hit in petrol engines, esp. when idling!!!

IIRC I'd take a hit of 5-8mpg in my petrol Mk2, vs about half that in the diesel Mk1.

 

My Mk2 Yaris did that as well - It seems that as soon as it sensed the air was warming up past whatever the climate control was set to, it would fire up the engine to run the AC to cool it down again.

Essentially it was impossible for the start-stop to really do anything with the AC running if it was hot.

So you thinking of getting one? Be a bit more spacious for your doggy!  

How did you find it size-wise? Is it similar to the normal Aygo but 'on stilts', as in just lifted, or is it quite an increase in space in all areas?

 

Same size but its like you say, just feels a bit lifted. First impressions when I sat in it was that it seemed a bit taller ride height. Still has the roar of my old favourite one litre petrol engine but a nice smoother gearbox. Will definitely be ordering one, but I'll need more pennies first for a deposit.

[TonyHSD]

17 hours ago, Cyker said:

Oookaay so it turns out when it gets to this sort of temperature the AC *does* have a more noticeable effect on the fuel economy! The past 2 days dropped me from 81 to 73mpg tank average!  

The poor car just can't keep the battery at the 50% mark because the AC running even on Eco just sucks the juice out of it too quickly, dropping it to 3 bars and triggering the engine.

It's quite a difference from when I looked at it before - I could run the AC for 10 minutes per bar while stationary, but in this heat it's more like 1 minute!

The most annoying thing is the timing of the engine firing up always seems to coincide with when I stopped! It's not so bad if the engine is running while I'm moving, but when it fires up after you've stopped... ugh... so noisy and unrefined!

Makes me wish I'd gone home via the M25 instead of the A406!

I really wish I could change the parameters of when it decides to charge and up to how much (I'd make it charge up to 5-6 blocks once it starts, but not start the engine while stationary until 2!), or even better replace the useless EV-mode button with a Charge button so I can force it to charge while I'm moving and stop it when I'm stationary!

Soo hooottt 

I had been talking about that for a long time , hybrids also  suffer from using AC, that drains the hybrid Battery and even with a good charge the engine is still running more than usual when AC is ON because the power management  is trying to preserve the Battery for driving the car. 
For the lower amount of gas into the AC system might do the trick as it does usually reduce the pressure into the compressor and unload the engine a bit. It will be weak ac imo, perhaps similar to a 4-5 years old car that has never been regas. AC does not affect much consumption when cruising at steady speeds on flat roads, M25 or any other motorway even adding extra miles may proof to be the better option. Also motorways helps extend the life of all components, especially suspension, bearings, bushings etc and tyres too. I am on all original suspension after 212k miles. 👌

[Stopeter44]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

AC does not affect much consumption when cruising at steady speeds on flat roads, M25 or any other motorway even adding extra miles may proof to be the better option. Also motorways helps extend the life of all components, especially suspension, bearings, bushings etc and tyres too. I am on all original suspension after 212k miles.

Nice summary, Tony. I used to run AC all the time, winter and summer in the 208, at least I didn't have to re-gas like I did every year with the previous Clio, I only used the AC in the summer.

With the Yaris IV, for extremely short trips (2km or less) I'll turn all ventilation and heating off, but anything that can be vaguely considered a normal run (2Km or more) I'll leave the AC on. Last tank (23 litres) was noticeably higher than the previous but there was a lot of autoroute, and the temperatures are over 35°C. Clearly the Yaris is happier at 80-90 kph than 100-110 kph in terms of fuel consumption.

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

I had been talking about that for a long time , hybrids also  suffer from using AC, that drains the hybrid battery and even with a good charge the engine is still running more than usual when AC is ON because the power management  is trying to preserve the battery for driving the car. 
For the lower amount of gas into the AC system might do the trick as it does usually reduce the pressure into the compressor and unload the engine a bit. It will be weak ac imo, perhaps similar to a 4-5 years old car that has never been regas. AC does not affect much consumption when cruising at steady speeds on flat roads, M25 or any other motorway even adding extra miles may proof to be the better option. Also motorways helps extend the life of all components, especially suspension, bearings, bushings etc and tyres too. I am on all original suspension after 212k miles. 👌

Yea, I never really noticed before as, I guess,  the AC was still able to cycle on and off, so what power it did use just got buffered by the Battery, but the past few days the poor thing's been running flat-out all the time and the Battery isn't big enough to buffer that kind of high load! I don't know how much power this one uses, but usually AC compressors use 2-4kW, and given the Battery is only 0.7kWh it's no wonder the engine has to run so much more!

49 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

Clearly the Yaris is happier at 80-90 kph than 100-110 kph in terms of fuel consumption.

I find that too, esp. when using cruise control - When you go higher than that the car finds it very difficult to run on MG2 alone so you lose a lot of the energy advantage. Thankfully the ICE alone is still surprisingly efficient at motorway speeds, esp. compared to the 1.33 Mk2 I had before. Considering how much heavier it is to the Mk2, that's quite an impressive feat!

That said if I want to go faster, I can get similarly good mpgs if I turn off the cruise control and use pulse-glide techniques - e.g. Gently accelerate when the ICE is on, ease off and hold it on MG2-only when it shuts off and slowly bleed off speed, but eventually the ICE will kick in again and I start the cycle again. If I can time that with the natural ebb and flow of the traffic it works even better and I never have to brake!

Helps stop me getting too bored on the motorway runs too... maybe I'm getting old but I don't know how I did so many motorway miles without cruise control... it's so monotonous! Esp. when you hit those 50mph construction zones the Smart Motorway keeps lavishing us with where all 3 lanes are doing 50mph +/- 2mph - Makes me feel like I'm being hypnosized!

 

[Stopeter44]

16 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Esp. when you hit those 50mph construction zones the Smart Motorway keeps lavishing us with where all 3 lanes are doing 50mph +/- 2mph - Makes me feel like I'm being hypnosized!

Talking about being hypnotised, Have you ever driven on an Interstate highway through a major US city, especially in the Midwestern and Western states, somewhere like Phoenix, for example.

Generally, nearly everybody drives at the same speed on those highways, it feels like you are going nowhere !

Junctions come and go, but the buildings by the side of the highway all look identical, it just goes on and on, just like the car sequences in a film where it is so obvious that the scenery is moving and not the car!

[TonyHSD]

29 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

Talking about being hypnotised, Have you ever driven on an Interstate highway through a major US city, especially in the Midwestern and Western states, somewhere like Phoenix, for example.

Generally, nearly everybody drives at the same speed on those highways, it feels like you are going nowhere !

Junctions come and go, but the buildings by the side of the highway all look identical, it just goes on and on, just like the car sequences in a film where it is so obvious that the scenery is moving and not the car!

Just like any London roads but here all that happens at lower speeds , walking speed perhaps 😂👌👍

[TonyHSD]

55 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Yea, I never really noticed before as, I guess,  the AC was still able to cycle on and off, so what power it did use just got buffered by the battery, but the past few days the poor thing's been running flat-out all the time and the battery isn't big enough to buffer that kind of high load! I don't know how much power this one uses, but usually AC compressors use 2-4kW, and given the battery is only 0.7kWh it's no wonder the engine has to run so much more!

I find that too, esp. when using cruise control - When you go higher than that the car finds it very difficult to run on MG2 alone so you lose a lot of the energy advantage. Thankfully the ICE alone is still surprisingly efficient at motorway speeds, esp. compared to the 1.33 Mk2 I had before. Considering how much heavier it is to the Mk2, that's quite an impressive feat!

That said if I want to go faster, I can get similarly good mpgs if I turn off the cruise control and use pulse-glide techniques - e.g. Gently accelerate when the ICE is on, ease off and hold it on MG2-only when it shuts off and slowly bleed off speed, but eventually the ICE will kick in again and I start the cycle again. If I can time that with the natural ebb and flow of the traffic it works even better and I never have to brake!

Helps stop me getting too bored on the motorway runs too... maybe I'm getting old but I don't know how I did so many motorway miles without cruise control... it's so monotonous! Esp. when you hit those 50mph construction zones the Smart Motorway keeps lavishing us with where all 3 lanes are doing 50mph +/- 2mph - Makes me feel like I'm being hypnosized!

 

When AC is working hard the buzzing sound works as AVAS on my old hybrid, I noticed people are watching me surprised  and wonder what a strange noise of a engine is that ?! 😂👌 Btw one of my neighbours has same as yours mk4 and always drive past me when I wash my car outside. Now I can hear 3 typical noises, 3 cylinder engine, electric AC and Mg1 👍

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

Talking about being hypnotised, Have you ever driven on an Interstate highway through a major US city, especially in the Midwestern and Western states, somewhere like Phoenix, for example.

Generally, nearly everybody drives at the same speed on those highways, it feels like you are going nowhere !

Junctions come and go, but the buildings by the side of the highway all look identical, it just goes on and on, just like the car sequences in a film where it is so obvious that the scenery is moving and not the car!

Oh god that sounds like the 50-zones but much much worse  

Since far more cars in the USA have cruise control, and if all 4/5/6/7+ lanes had cars all with the cruise control on at the same limit speed... The thought of them all travelling in lock-step and being stuck in the middle of that... brrr! 

Nothing like that feeling of travelling without moving! (Or was it moving without travelling??)

Give me a nice twisty country road any day!!!

[Chris Boddum]

Purely wondering but what would happen if I hotwired / recoded the magnetic clutch to always be on, making it so the compressor is always on? Yes, it would add more drag, but it would stop the annoying jolts. 

[haelewyn]

Switch it on always then ? It resumes after switching the engine off and back on.

 

Could be I am not getting your drift completely...

[Chris Boddum]

9 hours ago, haelewyn said:

Switch it on always then ? It resumes after switching the engine off and back on.

 

Could be I am not getting your drift completely...

The compressor is always cutting in and out with the magnetic clutch (duty cycles) which gives the annoying jolts that people previously have complained about. I’d imagine hotwiring the clutch to the AC switch would make the car a little slower at all times, but instead would not cause jolts. 

[haelewyn]

Ok. Now I get what you mean.
And it's right... It's going on and off a silly amount of times in my car. Not worth while doing that and it would be more comfortable if it stayed on.

I tried the car again last week and came to the conclusion it's just more terrible if I am asking full power of the car. Then it drives more badly.
As long as I am letting it go in it's own pace, it's fairly ok.
 

Well ... This is not going to be my favorite car of all times and sometimes I regret to have bought it a bit. But if I think back about my dilemma, I would buy it again.

I still got 10.000 euro from my previous car. If I would have bought a Corolla, I would have had to pay 20.000 extra for the one I like.
With the Aygo the amount left to pay was less than 4000 euro. Also for a new car that will be under warranty for five years at least.
At least : they started rolling out the Relax service here.. I heard it's also for second hand cars. Just don't know if it will be for my car bought last november too... It looks like it's for all cars.

[fordulike]

12 hours ago, Chris Boddum said:

Purely wondering but what would happen if I hotwired / recoded the magnetic clutch to always be on, making it so the compressor is always on? Yes, it would add more drag, but it would stop the annoying jolts. 

I may be wrong here, but I think the reason why the compressor and system doesn't run full time, is so the internals don't freeze up and collect ice. Hence the cycling of the compressor.

[PetrolDave]

20 minutes ago, fordulike said:

I may be wrong here, but I think the reason why the compressor and system doesn't run full time, is so the internals don't freeze up and collect ice. Hence the cycling of the compressor.

It's also to regulate the refrigerant pressure, running all the time could make the pressure too high.

[Cyker]

7 hours ago, haelewyn said:

At least : they started rolling out the Relax service here.. I heard it's also for second hand cars. Just don't know if it will be for my car bought last november too... It looks like it's for all cars.

Yeah, as I understand it, as long as the car is less than 10 years old it qualifies. Was a bit annoying they introduced that right after I got rid of my Mk2, which had 2 major failures that would have been covered by the Relax warranty (Gearbox and AC system). The only reason it isn't more annoying is because it led to me getting my Mk4, which has brought the joy of driving back into my life!  

The AC thing doesn't seem right tho' - It shouldn't be that noticeable/violent every time it cuts in. I wonder if there's something wrong with the clutch? They normally engage fairly smoothly...! I've never noticed the AC engaging/disengaging on my previous Yarisieusiesuses

 

[Chris Boddum]

18 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Yeah, as I understand it, as long as the car is less than 10 years old it qualifies. Was a bit annoying they introduced that right after I got rid of my Mk2, which had 2 major failures that would have been covered by the Relax warranty (Gearbox and AC system). The only reason it isn't more annoying is because it led to me getting my Mk4, which has brought the joy of driving back into my life!  

The AC thing doesn't seem right tho' - It shouldn't be that noticeable/violent every time it cuts in. I wonder if there's something wrong with the clutch? They normally engage fairly smoothly...! I've never noticed the AC engaging/disengaging on my previous Yarisieusiesuses

 

It's just something else on the Aygo compared to the Yaris. I've driven a few other Aygos and its exactly the same as mine. It sucks.

[Cyker]

That sucks  Must be a thing on the newer ones as I swear it wasn't so noticeable on the Mk1 Aygo (I don't think I've driven the Mk2, but have the Mk1 a few times, albeit in its french guises  )