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I have noticed,has anyone else, when the small Battery has been left standing for a while, when driving the car ticks over at 1000 rpm min to charge the Battery and does run on hybrid Battery for some miles,? Would be sensible to charge the starter battery to reduce fuel consumption?

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27 minutes ago, frazthewise said:

I have noticed,has anyone else, when the small battery has been left standing for a while, when driving the car ticks over at 1000 rpm min to charge the battery and does run on hybrid battery for some miles,? Would be sensible to charge the starter battery to reduce fuel consumption?

The starter Battery is charged from the HV Battery whenever the car is in READY, the engine doesn't need to be running.

However, the car has all sorts of conditions for when it'll run the engine. When the engine is cold, it wants to warm all the emissions kit up for best operation. Whilst it's doing that, it tries to use the Battery for propulsion, as the engine is running inefficiently to warm up as quickly as possible.

I suspect that's what you might be seeing.

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1 hour ago, Stivino said:

What would you use to charge it?

CTEK 5amp charger amg

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1 hour ago, preperationlaunch said:

The starter battery is charged from the HV battery whenever the car is in READY, the engine doesn't need to be running.

However, the car has all sorts of conditions for when it'll run the engine. When the engine is cold, it wants to warm all the emissions kit up for best operation. Whilst it's doing that, it tries to use the battery for propulsion, as the engine is running inefficiently to warm up as quickly as possible.

I suspect that's what you might be seeing.

The car was warm and the engine revs remained at 1000rpm, even going down hill? I have done a number of short journey recently. Put the Battery on charge at 10am this morning, still charging at 3.30pm, so Battery charge must have been low?

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I've noticed mine does this every now and again. Mpg counter goes right to the top so I'm assuming it's on electric but engine is apparently at 1k rpm.

 

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I have an idea that, as mentioned above, this might be to do with keeping the catalyst up to temperature and 'ready to go'.  Until it's hot (around 600 degrees), it doesn't function efficiently, and the only way to heat it is through the operation of the engine, and the deliberate 'over-fuelling' and engine timing changes when the engine is cold.

But, in addition, the 2.0 engine has a GPF (gasoline particulate filter).  This doesn't have the same negative associations as it's diesel equivalent - the DPF.  After plenty of slow journeys the GPF may not be  getting hot enough to be self-cleaning, and may instigate a cleaning cycle with higher RPMs.

That's as I understood it anyway.

I think your Battery being less-than-fully-charged is a seperate issue.  Interesting though.

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5 hours ago, frazthewise said:

I have noticed,has anyone else, when the small battery has been left standing for a while, when driving the car ticks over at 1000 rpm min to charge the battery and does run on hybrid battery for some miles,? Would be sensible to charge the starter battery to reduce fuel consumption?

If the engine was warmed up then it might run as generator to provide high voltage power to the hybrid Battery since the hybrid Battery been used for recharging the small 12v Battery. In hot days when using the AC hybrid battery gets drained quickly and so the engine will run more often to recharge. All of these are normal Toyota hybrid behaviour. As mentioned earlier if it’s happening on cold then engine is running to warm up and be ready for use. 👍

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3 hours ago, frazthewise said:

The car was warm and the engine revs remained at 1000rpm, even going down hill? I have done a number of short journey recently. Put the battery on charge at 10am this morning, still charging at 3.30pm, so battery charge must have been low?

Air intake looks well protected. 👌🚙🌊

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Mine does weird crap like that every so often too; It doesn't seem to affect the performance or mpg so I've just learned to ignore it and let it do its thing.

 

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3 hours ago, Gerg said:

I have an idea that, as mentioned above, this might be to do with keeping the catalyst up to temperature and 'ready to go'.  Until it's hot (around 600 degrees), it doesn't function efficiently, and the only way to heat it is through the operation of the engine, and the deliberate 'over-fuelling' and engine timing changes when the engine is cold.

But, in addition, the 2.0 engine has a GPF (gasoline particulate filter).  This doesn't have the same negative associations as it's diesel equivalent - the DPF.  After plenty of slow journeys the GPF may not be  getting hot enough to be self-cleaning, and may instigate a cleaning cycle with higher RPMs.

That's as I understood it anyway.

I think your battery being less-than-fully-charged is a seperate issue.  Interesting though.

I thought the current 1.8 from 2021 onwards had a GPF too.

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15 minutes ago, Kental said:

I thought the current 1.8 from 2021 onwards had a GPF too.

I believe all 1.8 hybrids from 2010 onwards have one, or something similar located between the cat and middle silencer. 

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4 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I believe all hybrids from 2010 have one. 

62B65AD8-2B44-43BD-AB72-9F338D5B08A6.thumb.png.6ce7f0c75c1fa0603b5b9f0e602f3a72.png

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16 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I believe all 1.8 hybrids from 2010 onwards have one, or something similar located between the cat and middle silencer. 

By the above quotes ithe 1.8 was only RDE2 compliant from my21 onwards. I thought the GPF was mounted nearer the manifold.

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10 hours ago, Kental said:

I thought the current 1.8 from 2021 onwards had a GPF too.

Yes, from your quoted text, it does look like it!

I was under the (now superceded!) impression that GPFs were only necessary on direct injection petrol cars.

It seems like GPFs have been adopted nearly across-the-board whilst I wasn't looking.

But, with a port injection car that does not produce so much particulate stuff, does that mean it is less likely to need to perform anything beyond a passive regen?  So the device isn't detectable in normal driving?

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Gerg said:

Yes, from your quoted text, it does look like it!

I was under the (now superceded!) impression that GPFs were only necessary on direct injection petrol cars.

It seems like GPFs have been adopted nearly across-the-board whilst I wasn't looking.

But, with a port injection car that does not produce so much particulate stuff, does that mean it is less likely to need to perform anything beyond a passive regen?  So the device isn't detectable in normal driving?

 

 

 

Who knows!!!

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14 hours ago, Kental said:

62B65AD8-2B44-43BD-AB72-9F338D5B08A6.thumb.png.6ce7f0c75c1fa0603b5b9f0e602f3a72.png

In gen3 hybrids there is a box that comes after the catalytic converter and looks exactly the same as gpf. It’s not listed as separate part and comes together with the cat and silencer and the pipe. It is some sort of filter and likely to be called gpf according to other information on the net. Last year this part was cut and stolen from brand new Corolla 1.8 hybrid, the thieves thought it was the catalytic converter. No argument, just sharing what I have seen on these cars below when working on. Here some pictures. 👍

D5C3A38E-5E1A-420F-B190-DCC747C23155.jpeg

2476FDD5-B2AF-4588-8CEC-1EFB707EC4FF.jpeg

585B126B-BA5D-4BE0-8FB8-3EA1DEE7D680.jpeg
https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/19-09-10_faq_gpf_eng.htm

Someone who works at Toyota dealer and particularly in the service and parts department can clarify. To my best believe it looks like gpf or some sort of filter for reducing emissions. 

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23 hours ago, frazthewise said:

The car was warm and the engine revs remained at 1000rpm, even going down hill? I have done a number of short journey recently. Put the battery on charge at 10am this morning, still charging at 3.30pm, so battery charge must have been low?

The engine revs are sometimes the car trying to shed excess generated power if the traction Battery of full, especially when going down hill. The engine is going round but its being turned by the electric motor. 

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Yeah I don't understand the reasoning for putting GPFs on port-injection engines either (Apart from The Rules), just seems like it will cause more emissions and fuel consumption from the unnecessary back-pressure.

Thankfully, because petrol engines have much higher exhaust temps than diesel, they are much easier to trigger regen and no need to squirt fuel into the exhaust to try and set it alight!

 

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7 minutes ago, Cyker said:

because petrol engines have much higher exhaust temps than diesel,

It’s the other way round, diesel exhaust temperatures are far higher that petrol.

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1 hour ago, Stivino said:

It’s the other way round, diesel exhaust temperatures are far higher that petrol.

Diesel *combustion* temperatures are higher than petrol, but the exhaust temps are much lower, like 2-300 degrees lower IIRC.

This is because their longer strokes and higher compression ratios allow them to use more of the heat energy from the combustion, so there's less of it to go out the exhaust.

That's why diesel engines take so long to warm up - They produce much less waste heat than petrols.

It's also why diesel engines have had variable geometry turbos for decades but only a handful of petrol engines (And only very high-end ones) have had them - The high petrol exhaust just melts them unless very expensive and exotic materials are used, while diesel exhaust is cold enough for them to have a fairly long life.

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