No OBD Connection

[Steves_mate]

My buddy Steve has the following:

Toyota RAV4 D-4D 2003 Diesel SUV D GX 4WD AWD MkII 1995cc
ENGINE TYPE: 1CD-FTV
ENGINE NO:   1CD0274418
VIN:         J T E H G ************ pm if more reqd
1st reg:     08/04/2003
Variant:     CLA21(W)
Version:     CLA21R-AWMNYU(1D)
Vehicle reg: pm if reqd

He can't get much power out of it, fastest he can get it to go is 28mph on a straight. Smells pretty bad like it's not burning fuel right, and theres a lot of black smoke even when warm.

Cursory look around the engine bay shows no obvious broken, missing or hanging hoses. Air filter is clean. MAF(?) sensor looks clean (pulled it and looked at the tiny silver wire inside).

Tried my generic OBD readers but can't get a proper full connection reporting anything useful. I have two ELM327 bluetooth plugins using a variety of Android OBD apps, and a Gendan EngineCheckPro wired unit.

Nothing I've got connected further than telling me the Battery voltage.

I just wondered if anyone here might be able to tell me what OBD hardware/software combination would work ok with this vehicle, enough to help me diagnose his fuelling(?) issue..

Thanks, Neil

 

Android bluetooth apps tried with no success via 2 different ELM327 plugs (some do a basic connect to car but not to any useful modules):

OBD Auto Doctor

EOBD Facile

FIXD

Carista

OBDEleven

Torque Lite

DashCommand

OBD2 Tools for Toyota

OBDLink

OBD Mary

 

 

[flash22]

Early diesels require K-line obd2 there is a handy little app to test elm interfaces, what firmware they have and protocols they read - Elm 327 identifier https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.applagapp.elm327identifier&hl=en_GB&gl=US

software wise Car scanner elm obd2 or Torque lite/pro

 

to me is sounds like a blocked/collapsed CAT or other exhaust blockage, if it's losing oil - turbo, if it's making oil - failed injector(s)

[flash22]

CLA21R-AWMNYU may be a type-o

CLA21R-AWMNYW - should be correct, making it a JTE*G*** VIN

Another thought is it may have an EGR issue

 

[Steves_mate]

Thanks Bob, much appreciated

I took the variant and version info off his V5 - possible there's a typo there or my eyesight.

As far as I can tell from online research it *shouldn't* have a DPF but I don't know, I haven't yet looked closely underneath the vehicle so there might be a DPF or a CAT

Elm 327 identifier - that looks handy - will check out my 2 plugs.

The turbo's definitely a Garrett one, with a straight rather than curved inlet. I was expecting to see a 90 degree curve in the inlet casting from the pics I've seen online.

 

[Steves_mate]

Found this on eBay, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154557680068

Seems to support K-line, so fingers crossed.. will report back joy/no joy

[IanML]

If that's no go, you could consider using the Toyota Techstream interface and software, such as this one.  It only caters for cars with 16 pin OBD, so I assume not the latest models.  You need a Win 7 PC (32 bit) or a later PC running a 32-bit Win7 Virtual Machine.

Works well with my 2005 model.

 

However, for a few dollars more, I would go for this one, which will support 64 bit PCs and newer cars, though still, I assume, with 16-pin only.

[Steves_mate]

Thanks Ian, the connector certainly has 16 pins. Very useful links, thanks 🙂

[flash22]

No Dpf on a 2003 but it does have a cat, what are compulsory as of 1993 (K reg iirc)

Techstream runs on Windows 10 and 11 no need to run a VM, the Mini VCI only does Can bus only, diesels require K-line up to 2008 ish

most obd2 devices will do K-line programming, but not K-line diagnostics

 

going by the info given it's a mechanical issue, as I said above it's likely a blocked cat drop the front pipe and have a look up the cat, the honeycomb should be in one piece and fixed in place

 

[Steves_mate]

Thanks Bob. Your version number correction a few posts ago was golden because it led to me being able to Google up some really good vehicle specific exploded diagrams, which have really helped me visualise what's where under the bonnet despite the usual shoehorning and occluded view of everything. Things make a lot more sense now.

Yes I can see the CAT on the diagrams and from what I recall from the limited views I've had so far, I've a very good feeling it is indeed there in actuality on Steve's car. So I understand pretty well your suggestion. I'll probably get the car on my own driveway later this week once the new reader arrives, I'll probably want to play with new toy first(!) but immediate second will be do as you suggest. My son bought me an Aldi endoscope tool with a nifty little LCD display for last Christmas, wonder if that'll help look inside the CAT..

[IanML]

14 hours ago, flash22 said:

Techstream runs on Windows 10 and 11 no need to run a VM, the Mini VCI only does Can bus only, diesels require K-line up to 2008 ish

 

That is misleading.

The items I linked to include in the "supported" list "K-Line ISO 9141".

I quote:

"This is the latest FT232RL version of the cable with the more powerful ARM Cpu, a lot of other sellers are selling the older FT232RQ cables which do not support all functions such as programming. This cable will support all functions including Dual K Line and Programming for all Toyota cars from 1996 to August 2022 and works with all available versions of TIS Techstream! "

Older versions of Techstream offered for less money state that they require 32-bit Windows.  Newer versions for more money run under 64-bit as well.

[Hybrid21]

Are the injectors ok Neil ?

[flash22]

It's only the fact that the driver exe doesn't run on 64 bit, the workaround is to extract the drivers from the exe with something like Uniextract - you then manually install the .inf driver files

you can find most versions for free

 

Yes techstream does K-line the Mini VCI does not !! The really misleading part is the FTDI chip is an uart to usb convertor, it has no real bearing on the obd2 interface or what it can support

RL and RQ are the same chips in a different package (SSOP v's QFN)

[Steves_mate]

Was hoping to get the Rav4 back to mine tonight, where I've got space and tools.. unfortunately it's got so bad now the journey was impossible. Mrs drove it with me following behind but we only got 1/4 mile before she didn't have the physical power to pull out of a junction. Had to jump out & push her out the junction and onto the kerb.

Had a crack at clearing it by sitting with my foot flat on the throttle for a good 30, 40 seconds. RPM rose to 1700 & stayed there throughout with a bit of random hunting say, +/- 50 RPM, wouldn't go any higher.  After 30 odd secs Mrs came to window and suggested I 'stop that'; exhaust was billowing out pure black smoke thick as burning tyres.

Managed to 3 point turn it with help & limp it downhill back to Steve's. It's got virtually zero power now, just about enough to move & that's it. Any kind of hill and it just slows right down almost to a stop.

Starts and idles like a dream though, no bad noises..

I'm theorising if the turbo was bad, the revs would still build up above 1700? It idles and runs without load quite nicely so maybe that's a good sign for injectors / injector pump? & the problem's become so severe now, I dunno, it does just 'feel' like somethings really badly choking the whole system..

Going to have to go to his place & take off the downpipe with ramps in the rain 😞 Had a little look, I think I should be able to get to the bolts at the bottom of the CAT ok.

[RAV4-D4D]

I drove my RAV4 for 4000miles with no turbo (waste gate jammed open), if that was broken it would feel fairly normal from 0-35mph and then sluggish. It will get to 70mph, eventually. No smoke or anything though.

If you want to rule the turbo out you can simply unplug it and it won't spool. You'll get an engine warning light though.

I use a generic wifi OBD reader with Dash Command on the iPhone, works just fine for me, although sometimes it needs a couple of attempts and the engine needs to be on.

MAF sensor you can also just unplug to rule that out, but I don't think that would cause smoke.

I'd probably change the fuel filter as a cheap/easy possible cause.

 

[Steves_mate]

The CR3001 reader I ordered arrived, but didn't work on the '03 Rav4. It did work fine on 3 other cars. Seller believed the '03 year was the cause, Toyota did something different in that year so he thinks. He was really good, offered to take it back and suggested something he thought would work. I've just kept it because even though the current patient is playing silly beggars, it's still a nice little reader..

The alternative he suggested that he thought *should* work on the '03, a Foxwell NT624 Elite, was unfortunately far more expensive than my buddy wants to pay for a one-off diagnosis. Not to say it doesn't look like a stellar piece of kit.

I've got my inspection camera, ramps and spanners out ready & Sunday I'll have a look up the backside of the CAT.

6 hours ago, RAV4-D4D said:

normal from 0-35mph and then sluggish

We've currently got "normal from 0 to 1000 RPM out of gear (but with some black smoke), then stall on any request for power no matter how light, after a second or two of jet black smoke"

Hadn't considered the fuel filter TBH

[RAV4-D4D]

Hi - the turbo doesn't spool (or doesn't noticeably spool) when reving in neutral as there's no load so if you have the fault in neutral then I don't think you have a turbo problem.

 

My money is on the fuel filter... cheap if it fixes it!

[flash22]

black smoke is either a blocked exhaust and just mass amounts of back pressure and/or a failed injector, usually you will see a rise in the oil level

as you have a camera, you can pop an o2 sensor out and have a look

 

You could try ye olde paper clip test and read the flashes on the dash

Link the 2 pins shown below turn the ignition on - the EML should stay on then start flash with a pause inbetween the 2 digit code, the code will repeat or go on to the next code stored

[Steves_mate]

Hey I seem to recall something like that on my old Mk1b MR2! We will definitely give that one a whirl..

 

[Steves_mate]

Stripped it all down, turbo shaft found to be loose, at least a good millimetre side to side movement on the compressor side. Intercooler absolutely flooded with oil. Manifold cat badly blocked with soot. Cleaned cat with compressed air and brake cleaner. Washed out intercooler with brake cleaner then inordinate amounts of washing powder till spotless inside via endoscope. Reassembled all with brand new albeit cheap eBay turbo. Now runs much better, fully driveable, turbo still a little sluggish to spool up though.

First run after reassembly saw absolute shedloads of thick black smoke on acceleration but that totally cleared after a couple of runs round the block.

Remains slightly lazy on the pick-up on throttle to the floor, and it blue smokes quite badly after idling more than a minute. Otherwise fine.

Guessing the second, underfloor cat needs cleaning or replacing as well. Not sure if the blue smoke is residual oil contamination in the system after the original turbo let go, or if the engine's just old & it's oil leakage past the rings / valve oil seals.

Steve's going to drive it to work and back all this week, then we'll try dropping the underfloor cat and cleaning it.

Least it's capable of climbing out of junctions now.

[Steves_mate]

Couple of weeks later, oh woe was Steve, car back to sluggish.

Split the pipe between the manicat & the second cat, sent him up the country lanes for half an hour till it was hot, (it was suprisingly quiet) when he came back I stood on the throttle & let it go as high as it wanted. It stuck at 4000 RPM for a while then there was a great cloud of black soot & the revs started climbing. Few more revs & it was reliably accelerating up into the higher RPM ranges like you'd expect with little smoke.

Reassembled the exhaust & he's reported good performance ever since. We ordered a new 2nd cat, plan to fit it in a couple of weeks.

I'm thinking, bad 2nd cat as well.. causing upset to the fuelling, causing soot, reblocking 1st cat.. kinda chicken / egg situation?

[Steves_mate]

On 10/23/2022 at 9:31 AM, Hybrid21 said:

Are the injectors ok Neil ?

Well that's one thing we haven't really checked into, Steve bought some super duper injector cleaner fluid though. Suggested we try running it through using a small 5L auxiliary diesel tank I've got, try and get it quite a strong mix through the injectors

[Cyker]

I wish I had a mate like you!!