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R4P... Seriously let me down


Nick72
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So this is my first experience of a major issue.

Here's how it went...

Pressed the air con button on the fob. Nothing happens.

Gets in the car a few minutes later. Won't start. Repeats message about pressing brake and pushing start. No start.

Message flashes about parking brake not functioning. But of a problem on a steep driveway. Didn't roll down the hill.

Message flashes, key not detected.

I change the Battery thinking it's something to do with that. No luck. No start, same combination of messages.

New message appears. Put in Park before leaving or to that effect. Beeping loudly non stop. 

Shuts door, still beeping loudly. Can't lock the car. Tried all methods. 

Beeping now starting to sound like HAL on meltdown. Starts calling me Dave.

So I figured, 12V Battery. But, I've been using the car all week. Including 4 off 45 minute trips. Should have had plenty opportunity to charge. No devices left plugged in by the way, no current leakage caused by me.

Used moco loco device under bonnet since tailgate inoperable. Started and all is normal except for strange strapping noise under the bonnet. Scraping noise could be normal but deadening through sound proofing means engineer not hear it.

Been on a 30 minute drive, car on, currently sitting in ASDA car park whilst 12V Battery charges up.

Should have been on the way to the Lake District.

Can no one do engineering properly?

 

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I wonder what's happened!! :confused1:

Maybe some radio interference?? That's one of my worries about the keyless system in my Mk4, as I've had situations in my Mk1 where the remote central locking just would not work, and I suspected there was some sort of pirate radio or someone using a CB burner nearby, as when I got away from that area it was fine again!

 

 

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If it wont detect your key then hold it next to the start button may help.

It woud be nice to know what the voltage was on the 12 volt Battery maybe its time to fit some type of device even if it just plugs into the 12 volt socket.

Other devices can monitor it all the time and are wired directly across the Battery or pluged unto the OBD2 port.

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What was the likely state of the traction Battery when this incident occurred? I.e. was it fully charged or more likely well depleted through EV use?

I don't have a PHEV but understand that the remote aircon feature relies on power from the traction Battery and won't run if the traction Battery is low ...

It seems clear from what you've said that the battery in the key fob was fine.

And it seems that the level of charge in the 12v auxiliary battery was low - too low to get into Ready mode without the assistance of your jump start device. This might also explain the 'anomalous' behaviour of so of the various electrical systems.

I obviously can't explain how it got into that state but it won't recharge from the traction battery if the level of charge in the traction battery is abnormally low.

Once you got it going again, did the ICE run?

Just thinking "out loud" so to speak ...

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Key fob Battery? Sounds like the 12v Battery.  There is something seriously strange with the way it gets charged.  On a recent 115mile trip it read 14.3v after starting dropped after awhile (30miles) to 12.4v (normal) but there when I arrived home was back to 14.3 volts. I'd have thought that once it had charged the 12v Battery it would be maintained but seems to have gone through a depleting cycle that then needed to be recharged.

Hope it's all OK for you and you enjoy your time away?

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20 minutes ago, ernieb said:

Key fob battery? Sounds like the 12v battery.  There is something seriously strange with the way it gets charged.  On a recent 115mile trip it read 14.3v after starting dropped after awhile (30miles) to 12.4v (normal) but there when I arrived home was back to 14.3 volts. I'd have thought that once it had charged the 12v battery it would be maintained but seems to have gone through a depleting cycle that then needed to be recharged.

Hope it's all OK for you and you enjoy your time away?

Exactly as I've observed Ernie. Feels like pot luck what part of that cycle you are at, and hence SoC of the 12v Battery at the end of a journey. 

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I had similar with multiple error messages before all the displays went blank due to the 12 v Battery becoming depleted. Seeing the error messages you tend to believe them and wonder what’s going on.

On looking into why the Battery was depleted the car had not been used on a run for 2 weeks.( been using wife’s ) Also  the car had been moved into and out of the garage  as I was doing some DIY and also getting the car packed for our trip to the western Isles. Boot door up and down. Final straw was plugging a 5 amp cooling box despite the car in ready mode. Lesson learnt after 4 years hybrid driving.

Odd that yours failed despite it having been used regularly. Sounds like 12 v Battery not being charged properly. 

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Forgot to add. When car died the tailgate was open. After getting it back in ready mode tailgate would not shut. Had to close manually and then it worked. Noted in the manual.

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15 hours ago, Cyker said:

I wonder what's happened!! :confused1:

Maybe some radio interference?? That's one of my worries about the keyless system in my Mk4, as I've had situations in my Mk1 where the remote central locking just would not work, and I suspected there was some sort of pirate radio or someone using a CB burner nearby, as when I got away from that area it was fine again!

 

 

Definitely flat 12V. What caused it I don't know. Perhaps it was low (though shouldn't have been) and me switching on the remote air con killed it. Full traction Battery btw.

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14 hours ago, Derek.w said:

If it wont detect your key then hold it next to the start button may help.

It woud be nice to know what the voltage was on the 12 volt battery maybe its time to fit some type of device even if it just plugs into the 12 volt socket.

Other devices can monitor it all the time and are wired directly across the battery or pluged unto the OBD2 port.

I think I'm going to monitor the voltage from now on.

Thanks for tip on the fob. I think there should be a system which detects the 12v being too low then warns you and doesn't try to let the electronics run and malfunction.

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13 hours ago, philip42h said:

What was the likely state of the traction battery when this incident occurred? I.e. was it fully charged or more likely well depleted through EV use?

I don't have a PHEV but understand that the remote aircon feature relies on power from the traction battery and won't run if the traction battery is low ...

It seems clear from what you've said that the battery in the key fob was fine.

And it seems that the level of charge in the 12v auxiliary battery was low - too low to get into Ready mode without the assistance of your jump start device. This might also explain the 'anomalous' behaviour of so of the various electrical systems.

I obviously can't explain how it got into that state but it won't recharge from the traction battery if the level of charge in the traction battery is abnormally low.

Once you got it going again, did the ICE run?

Just thinking "out loud" so to speak ...

Traction Battery was almost full.

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4 hours ago, ernieb said:

Key fob battery? Sounds like the 12v battery.  There is something seriously strange with the way it gets charged.  On a recent 115mile trip it read 14.3v after starting dropped after awhile (30miles) to 12.4v (normal) but there when I arrived home was back to 14.3 volts. I'd have thought that once it had charged the 12v battery it would be maintained but seems to have gone through a depleting cycle that then needed to be recharged.

Hope it's all OK for you and you enjoy your time away?

Drove up this morning, thanks Ernie. All good.

Something had flattened the 12V Battery. Weird though because it wasn't for lack time driving (or switched on) which was probably several 45 minutes journeys.

Nothing plugged in. No driver cams etc.

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4 hours ago, robo1 said:

I had similar with multiple error messages before all the displays went blank due to the 12 v battery becoming depleted. Seeing the error messages you tend to believe them and wonder what’s going on.

On looking into why the battery was depleted the car had not been used on a run for 2 weeks.( been using wife’s ) Also  the car had been moved into and out of the garage  as I was doing some DIY and also getting the car packed for our trip to the western Isles. Boot door up and down. Final straw was plugging a 5 amp cooling box despite the car in ready mode. Lesson learnt after 4 years hybrid driving.

Odd that yours failed despite it having been used regularly. Sounds like 12 v battery not being charged properly. 

This is what's bothering me. And in the past I've hardly used the car for a month at a time and only for few mile trips. But never a problem. Including being away on business travel overseas for a few weeks. Never a problem.

But this last week I'd been on 4 off 45 min drives. Plenty time to charge. Traction Battery also full. Haven't dared to try the remote air con again to see if that breaks it through some kind of sub system drawing power off the 12v rather than traction Battery.

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4 hours ago, robo1 said:

Forgot to add. When car died the tailgate was open. After getting it back in ready mode tailgate would not shut. Had to close manually and then it worked. Noted in the manual.

That's good to know.

Disconcerting when it's telling me the parking brake not activated and so on. And on a steep drive.

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Agree. I got Parking break not working then keyless system malfunction before going blank. Very confusing. Took car in after overnight charging. They ran a Battery check measuring cold cranking amps and other things and report said the Battery was good.

Technician said that the traction Battery is isolated other than when the car was in ready mode. All the electronic gizmos drain the 12 v battery over time.

Car will tell me to take a break after 3 hours but doesn’t tell me the 12v battery needs recharging. Perhaps the mark  6 will fix it.

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It’s a good point that unless you plug something into the accessory socket to monitor the 12v Battery you have no way of knowing what’s going on. There is no display or indication, a simple bar display, red, orange, green would have be easy enough to have incorporated on any number of the head unit displays or on the MID.

Nick, time to invest in a trickle charger?

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I’ve got a combined 12v monitor/USB port but obviously don’t check it enough. As you say a coloured light would be better. Red warning would draw your attention.

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3 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

What is it you lads do to these cars to make them die so often?  😀

It appears that what would be considered normal use with a standard ICE powered car seems to be enough to bring the 12v systems to a halt with the PHEV especially.  People seem to have stored the car for a few days then opened and loaded the boot and that’s it.

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I thought I had read about the low Battery warning in the manual but never seen it. Warning should stay on till you cancel it like the take a break coffee cup and saucer. 

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8 hours ago, ernieb said:

It’s a good point that unless you plug something into the accessory socket to monitor the 12v battery you have no way of knowing what’s going on. There is no display or indication, a simple bar display, red, orange, green would have be easy enough to have incorporated on any number of the head unit displays or on the MID.

Nick, time to invest in a trickle charger?

I've got the eyelet connector for my CTEK charger with the built in Battery monitor with red, amber and green lights. Only issue is because these batteries always seem to be a low voltage, even after a good run, it is always red (suggesting charge immediately!)

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10 hours ago, ernieb said:

It’s a good point that unless you plug something into the accessory socket to monitor the 12v battery you have no way of knowing what’s going on. There is no display or indication, a simple bar display, red, orange, green would have be easy enough to have incorporated on any number of the head unit displays or on the MID.

Nick, time to invest in a trickle charger?

Thanks Ernie. 

I think the point where I have to faff about with a trickle charger (Cortini flashbacks) is the same day that I dump the car and go for something else.

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