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R4P... Seriously let me down


Nick72
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9 hours ago, Corollanutter said:

That looks like a potential further drain on the 12V Battery

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3 hours ago, Derek.w said:

The car will show a error LOW BATTERY but its easily missed Toyota in there wisdom only shows it for a few seconds.

No such message not even for a second on mine. I was looking at the screen when I pressed start and throughout the faffing. Every other type of message about key fob, parking brake, etc but never anything about the Battery.

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So here's what any half decent engineer would have done...

 

1. Double the capacity of the 12V Battery

2. Trickle charge the 12V when plugged into your wall box through appropriate inverter rectifier.

3. Trickle charge from the traction Battery when at rest if the 12V Battery is low. Appropriate inverter rectifier.

 

Anything other than the above is naïve and utterly stupid. They'd get fired if they were on my team. Soooooo angry.

Thank god I got a NOCO LOCO. But how utterly ridiculous.

 

 

 

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So if this Toyota response is accurate I'm afraid to say I'm out and will be sending the car back probably to the same place as the Peugeot 3008 PHEV went. Hell.

An hour once a week? WTH. Besides that it had 180 minutes minimum being driven in the week before it went dead. So I'm supposed to keep it on or drive it even longer? I'll get it in for a check out but what I can't accept is an unreliable new car if they don't find and fix a fault. I'm out.

 

 

... recommend you put the car in ‘Ready’ mode for about 60 minutes before switching it off again and repeat the process at least once a week, providing you can carry out this procedure while adhering to the government’s advice regarding social distancing and Coronavirus (Covid-19). Please do not leave your car unattended when it is in ‘Ready’ mode.

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7 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Thanks Ernie. 

I think the point where I have to faff about with a trickle charger (Cortini flashbacks) is the same day that I dump the car and go for something else.

Take your point the trouble is I think there could be other cars that have issues using smaller AGM batteries.  I know people have said the 12V gets a charge when the traction Battery is charged but I'm still very skeptical, and always have been, as to whether that is the case. If the 12v was charged then surely the PHEV cars would not be exhibiting this particular issue?

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Looking at some of the strange faults I’ve seen on this forum maybe it’s just worth changing the 12v Battery on regular basis say every 1.5 years as Toyota dealer will not except it is faulty if they can recharge it.

The Battery is relatively small in terms of power output, I understand about the traction Battery charging it but the number of computer-controlled parts in Hybrid car is vast and a slight dip in voltage below a certain level can cause erroneous errors and a reset is necessary i.e. turn it off and on but the longer you leave it the more likely you are to suffer with this kind of fault.

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8 hours ago, Nick72 said:

That looks like a potential further drain on the 12V battery? 

They quote 1mA as the current draw. Around 2 years to discharge the Battery by 50%.  That's very, very small compared to what must be pulling these batteries down. The self-discharge is far higher than that. 

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30 minutes ago, Corollanutter said:

They quote 1mA as the current draw. Around 2 years to discharge the battery by 50%.  That's very, very small compared to what must be pulling these batteries down. The self-discharge is far higher than that. 

In the Product Description they quote 1mA, on the picture of the device itself they quote 1.5mA:

image.thumb.png.8af9d49058742126cea99936e2f444e1.png

either way it's not huge compared to the up to 50mA "parasitic drain" when the car is Off - but it is an additional drain on the auxiliary Battery which might just be "the last straw" if one is leaving the car idle for a longer time. If you are away and can do nothing about the situation you are probably better off not knowing and relying on a Noco Boost or equivalent when you get back to the car. If you want to know the situation day-by-day then such a device is probably useful.

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10 hours ago, Nick72 said:

 

... recommend you put the car in ‘Ready’ mode for about 60 minutes before switching it off again and repeat the process at least once a week, providing you can carry out this procedure while adhering to the government’s advice regarding social distancing and Coronavirus (Covid-19). Please do not leave your car unattended when it is in ‘Ready’ mode.

Re this advice, would it then be a good idea if for instance you were waiting in the car while your wife was in the supermarket to sit with the car in ready mode ?

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Do you have any other peripherals like wired dash cam (which may or may not have a "parking mode"), to increase the vampire drain when the car is off? 

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The general conclusion we came to in another thread was basically, if you're in the car, then leave it in Ready mode. So even if you're sat stationary waiting for someone, it's best to leave it in Ready mode.

Technically this goes against the highway code, which says you should switch the car off when not driving, but I suspect that part was written not long after you stopped needing a guy with flags running in front of the car and doesn't take into account modern technology...

 

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5 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

Re this advice, would it then be a good idea if for instance you were waiting in the car while your wife was in the supermarket to sit with the car in ready mode ?

It's certainly a good excuse to stay out of the Supermarket!! 🙂

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8 hours ago, ernieb said:

Take your point the trouble is I think there could be other cars that have issues using smaller AGM batteries.  I know people have said the 12V gets a charge when the traction battery is charged but I'm still very skeptical, and always have been, as to whether that is the case. If the 12v was charged then surely the PHEV cars would not be exhibiting this particular issue?

I think you're right. It's an endemic issue with all hybrids and PHEVs. 

I think you're right. I was in the camp of it must charge the 12V when plugged in to the wall box. I mean that would be eminently sensible. But mine is plugged into the wall at least twice a week. Often 3 or 4 times. So I'm now thinking there's no way it can be charging.

So far so good up mountainous roads this weekend. Great car all round but this is the sort of Achilles heel that puts me right off.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Roger_N said:

Looking at some of the strange faults I’ve seen on this forum maybe it’s just worth changing the 12v battery on regular basis say every 1.5 years as Toyota dealer will not except it is faulty if they can recharge it.

The battery is relatively small in terms of power output, I understand about the traction battery charging it but the number of computer-controlled parts in Hybrid car is vast and a slight dip in voltage below a certain level can cause erroneous errors and a reset is necessary i.e. turn it off and on but the longer you leave it the more likely you are to suffer with this kind of fault.

Agreed. It's such a backward step for a car where I'd say gets used a lot. Mostly very short few mile trips plus at least one 90 min round trip a week. And then a 4 to 6 hour round trip at least once a month.

One would have thought that would be more than enough. But as you allude, who the devil knows what the charging strategy is for the 12V. 

Interestingly it might be something to do with me doing the remote Aircon which I do very rarely, usually only in winter to defrost and then it's usually plugged in the wall box. At the time the air con controls inside the car were set to off. I'm wondering if there's some kind of bug. Remote Aircon on the fob, car not plugged in, air con controls in the car set to off. Some unfortunate set of combos?

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7 hours ago, Corollanutter said:

They quote 1mA as the current draw. Around 2 years to discharge the battery by 50%.  That's very, very small compared to what must be pulling these batteries down. The self-discharge is far higher than that. 

That is very low. Might be worth a shot in that case. Thx

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5 hours ago, Hybrid21 said:

Re this advice, would it then be a good idea if for instance you were waiting in the car while your wife was in the supermarket to sit with the car in ready mode ?

LOL. My wife doing the shopping on her own is something that rarely happens. She hates it. Partly I suspect because she pays the food budget. 😂

Wife in charge of car whilst I'm in the supermarket means, I don't get exactly what she meant and secondly I suspect she'll not be waiting when I get out the shop. 😂

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5 hours ago, Mike2222 said:

Do you have any other peripherals like wired dash cam (which may or may not have a "parking mode"), to increase the vampire drain when the car is off? 

Zero. I even took out the mains power adaptor plug a couple of months back that is in the boot.

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5 hours ago, Cyker said:

The general conclusion we came to in another thread was basically, if you're in the car, then leave it in Ready mode. So even if you're sat stationary waiting for someone, it's best to leave it in Ready mode.

Technically this goes against the highway code, which says you should switch the car off when not driving, but I suspect that part was written not long after you stopped needing a guy with flags running in front of the car and doesn't take into account modern technology...

 

Which tends to be what I always do. I'm usually listening to the radio. Aircon off or low.

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Nigel you ctek charger I presume you have one  charging it in car mode if you change it to bike mode it will hold more of a charge.

Worked for me.

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I like Philip Battery monitor I have one myself and you dont need tobe in the car to check it.

Its a lot more involved to fit it to the Battery but well worth it.

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This has been aired before and I’m aware there are different opinions on this but the recommendations I’ve read suggest an AGM Battery should be charged at 14.6v - 14.8v. In AGM mode my NOCO (similar to CTEK) charges at 14.8v.  I’ve never seen the car go higher than 14.3v, occasionally 14.4v.

 

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1 hour ago, Derek.w said:

Nigel you ctek charger I presume you have one  charging it in car mode if you change it to bike mode it will hold more of a charge.

Worked for me.

Thanks. Last time I did a charge, I did use car mode but was going to try bike next time after advice on here.

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1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

I was in the camp of it must charge the 12V when plugged in to the wall box. I mean that would be eminently sensible. But mine is plugged into the wall at least twice a week. Often 3 or 4 times. So I'm now thinking there's no way it can be charging.

From what I've read from various sources, it only charges from the 240v supply when the Battery cooling or heating is running. I've never verified if that is the case or not. Maybe at current ambient temperatures (neither too hot nor too cold) the Battery conditioning isn't required.

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In accessory mode with radio on the car soon pulls the Battery down then its automatically shuts down the car to save Battery power for when you want to start the car.

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3 hours ago, nlee said:

From what I've read from various sources, it only charges from the 240v supply when the battery cooling or heating is running. I've never verified if that is the case or not. Maybe at current ambient temperatures (neither too hot nor too cold) the battery conditioning isn't required.

I’ve only ever charged mine with the 240v granny cable and I’ve not seen any evidence that it charges the 12v Battery.

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