Cold Start Idle

[Bper]

This morning was freezing and after starting the car and leaving it to warm up on the drive I noticed it was 15 minutes or so before the car came back to normal idle speed. Is this the average time for most cars in freezing conditions or do the larger engines take even longer. Is cold weather bad for the car having to run longer to reach idle and does this have any real effect on petrol consumption. 

 

 

[Derek.w]

I always just clean the windows and go just put on a thicker clothing in case you get stuck as if you out of the car digging you way aut or through  a drift a heated car is of no benifit.

[Bper]

7 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

I always just clean the windows and go just put on a thicker clothing in case you get stuck as if you out of the car digging you way aut or through  a drift a heated car is of no benifit.

Hi Derek, as a matter of interest does your hybrid heat up quicker with the elec power side of the engine.

[DerekHa]

Have done both in the past, leave it to idle and warm up or start it and go.

Thought the general advise is that's it's uneconomical to let your engine idle to warm up in the winter before driving and then there's the pollution thing also.

Oh and then there's them bad B******s  that drive around looking for cars sat on drives on cold winter mornings left to warm up, driver comes out and their pride and joy has gone just like that!

Like the other Derek says start it and go! Though you need to see out of them windows of course! Started and went this afternoon as the frost had gone off the car but after 20 yards the screen iced up and had to stop and wait for the blower to do it's magic. Always wrapped up well in weather like this.

[Bper]

To be honest I had to move thr car off the drive to allow the annual boiler check to be done so left it running to warm it up and clear the ice of the windows. 

Like yourself I normally start then leave it a minute to allow the oil in the turbo to get moving and then go. Hasn't been this freezing to notice the idle time before.

 

[Mojo1010]

The hybrid doesn't warm up faster at all, in fact the engine doesn't not come on at start up if there are enough hybrid Battery. That is what happened to my car this morning while I was clearing the ice from windows on the outside. Turn on heated rear window, the engine then start and had to wait for it to heat up to demist the window on the inside. 

Yes drive it as soon as one can see. 

 

[Bper]

20 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

The hybrid doesn't warm up faster at all, in fact the engine doesn't not come on at start up if there are enough hybrid battery. That is what happened to my car this morning while I was clearing the ice from windows on the outside. Turn on heated rear window, the engine then start and had to wait for it to heat up to demist the window on the inside. 

Yes drive it as soon as one can see. 

 

Hi mo, I was under the impression that hybrid batteries perform well in extreme cold weather. batteries in hybrid cars are resistant to very low temperatures. Manufacturers of this type of cars guarantee their trouble free startup and operation even at temperatures as low as -30°C.27 . Or have I got this wrong.🤔

[Cyker]

It depends what you mean... they will 'work' at colder temps, but they don't like it.

Most batteries work best around temperatures humans feel comfortable, which is handy! But almost all batteries will suffer an impairment to their capacity and ability to deliver power as temperature drops.

A lot of EVs will limit the charging speed and maximum acceleration when the Battery is especially cold to protect it because of this. That's one reason I'd never go near e.g. a Nissan Leaf, and only get an EV with active thermal management, as they can cool/heat the Battery as needed to get it to optimal temperature instead of being at the mercy of the weather.

Hybrids aren't as badly impacted as they have a great honking heat engine to help out, but they don't directly warm the Battery and only have a small fan to help cool them so they can waste a lot of fuel being glorified heaters (I'm nearly 20mpg down from summer!   It's these damned slow urban routes I'm having to take... I can't wait 'til my windscreen is repaired so I can go back to using the motorway without fear of my windscreen suddenly falling out or something!!!)

[Bper]

Cyker

,  I was interested to know if a hybrid heated up quicker in very cold weather. If the screen and blower heats up faster due to the elec side of the motor .

You mentioned your windscreen was it cracked that you had to have it replaced and are autoglass doing this for you. Have they got to reprogramme the screen as well.

[Cyker]

I can't say for the earlier ones, as TonyHSD says his heats up quite fast and so does my Auris hybrid-owning colleague, but my Mk4 takes friggin' forever to heat up unless I'm giving it the beans. The problem is the electric-side doesn't contribute anything to heating up the car - It's all from the engine, and as I've mentioned before, the more efficient the engine the less waste heat it generates. And it seems the M15A-FXE is very efficient! Brrrrrrr...

It's very similar to my old Mk1 diesel in that regard.

I think you have the better car for winter - That turbo will heat the engine up very quickly so you'll be toasty warm in no time! The Mk4 is definitely a better summer car!!

 

re. the windscreen, yes they have to recalibrate the sensor pod mounted on the windscreen, but apparently this is routine now so shouldn't be a problem, although it does mean I have to go to one of their sites rather than they coming to me as normal.

I'll let you know how it goes... (If you don't hear from me after the 19th keep an eye out in the news for a Mk4 upside down in a ditch/on fire/merged with an artic/tree/barrier/tractor etc. in the London area...   )

[Derek.w]

Its difficult to say if it heats up the cabin  faster but defiantly clears the window faster than my 2014 Yaris.

[Cyker]

This is one thing that annoys me in mine - In my diesel, the AC would turn on much earlier so I could use it to demist the screen, but the Mk4 won't turn the AC on until the car warms up a bit, presumably to protect itself, but the car takes ages to warm up so I have to sit staring at a misted up screen for longer than my previous cars.

It's extra annoying because the windscreen will be clear when I get in, but as soon as the fans start running, it first mists up very quickly before slowly clearing

It's a lot better than the Mk2 tho', since the AC didn't work properly in that at all  The Mk2 warmed up a lot faster than the diesel or the hybrid at least!!

[Bper]

8 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

Its difficult to say if it heats up the cabin  faster but defiantly clears the window faster than my 2014 Yaris.

Would you stay with the hybrid or go back at some point. I'm interested because at some point I will likely be looking at a hybrid and it is good to get real world experience from actual owners

[Bper]

4 minutes ago, Cyker said:

This is one thing that annoys me in mine - In my diesel, the AC would turn on much earlier so I could use it to demist the screen, but the Mk4 won't turn the AC on until the car warms up a bit, presumably to protect itself, but the car takes ages to warm up so I have to sit staring at a misted up screen for longer than my previous cars.

It's extra annoying because the windscreen will be clear when I get in, but as soon as the fans start running, it first mists up very quickly before slowly clearing

It's a lot better than the Mk2 tho', since the AC didn't work properly in that at all  The Mk2 warmed up a lot faster than the diesel or the hybrid at least!!

I posted recently that I had a test drive in a yaris hybrid and I found the ride to be a bit harsh. Was this something that didn't bother you to much when you test drove yours.

And did all the other extras that came with it outway the ride.

[Derek.w]

Bob I personly stay with the mark 4 Yaris one problem I encounted on my 2014 Yaris with a 1.33 engine when going up a steep hill and turning right at the crossroads it was at a snails pace I turned off ac unto after this remover just for the little extra power.

Plus Mk 4 MPG is a great advantage.

My ac turns on straight away in my mk 4 yes the ride is harsher but it on low profile tyres and stiffer springs but if you like me I drive fast into corners so this is not a problem for myself.

[Cyker]

Yeah the biggest performance improvement in the Mk4, other than the beefier MG2, is the engine can switch to Otto-cycle mode, so even if the Battery is depleted it can still turn into a 'real' 1.5L engine with the full power that can provide!  (That does make it as thirsty as a real 1.5L engine tho, so use sparingly!  )

 

[Bper]

8 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

Bob I personly stay with the mark 4 Yaris one problem I encounted on my 2014 Yaris with a 1.33 engine when going up a steep hill and turning right at the crossroads it was at a snails pace I turned off ac unto after this remover just for the little extra power.

Plus Mk 4 MPG is a great advantage.

My ac turns on straight away in my mk 4 yes the ride is harsher but it on low profile tyres and stiffer springs but if you like me I drive fast into corners so this is not a problem for myself.

What's the best MPG you have managed so far.

[Bper]

5 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Yeah the biggest performance improvement in the Mk4, other than the beefier MG2, is the engine can switch to Otto-cycle mode, so even if the battery is depleted it can still turn into a 'real' 1.5L engine with the full power that can provide!  (That does make it as thirsty as a real 1.5L engine tho, so use sparingly!  )

 

What's the best MPG you have managed so far as well.

[Cyker]

I think 82.4mpg has been my 'high score' so far! Obvs that was in summer tho'.

Low score is currently 62mpg  

(To be fair, it's a testament to how ridiculously efficient the car is when 62mpg could be considered 'bad'!! It's funny, as I would have been chuffed with 62mpg in my previous cars, even the diesel!!  )

 

[Bper]

13 hours ago, Cyker said:

I think 82.4mpg has been my 'high score' so far! Obvs that was in summer tho'.

Low score is currently 62mpg  

(To be fair, it's a testament to how ridiculously efficient the car is when 62mpg could be considered 'bad'!! It's funny, as I would have been chuffed with 62mpg in my previous cars, even the diesel!!  )

 

How did you achieve the 82.4 mpg was this motorway or a mixture of urban and motorway ?. This is really good milage and when I hear these type of figures it pushes me even more towards buying a hybrid.☺️

[Cyker]

I just double-checked and it was 83.4mpg according to the computer but 80.1 according to my calculations.

It was a mix of urban, a-roads and motorway in july, so warm enough the engine doesn't need to waste energy warming up but cool enough I can drive with the AC off sometimes.

I was being very strict in keeping my acceleration below PWR and keeping behind trucks on the motorway so 54-56mph, which is tricky as you really feel like you're not keeping pace!

I can't keep that up for long before I lose patience so my averages are usually mid-70's indicated; I find it difficult to get into the 80's because it requires a lot more patience, self-control and bloody-mindedness!! (I find the temptation to plant it and launch the car at any opportunity is hard to resist in this car...   God knows what it'll be like when I eventually get an EV...!  )

 

[Bper]

5 hours ago, Cyker said:

I just double-checked and it was 83.4mpg according to the computer but 80.1 according to my calculations.

It was a mix of urban, a-roads and motorway in july, so warm enough the engine doesn't need to waste energy warming up but cool enough I can drive with the AC off sometimes.

I was being very strict in keeping my acceleration below PWR and keeping behind trucks on the motorway so 54-56mph, which is tricky as you really feel like you're not keeping pace!

I can't keep that up for long before I lose patience so my averages are usually mid-70's indicated; I find it difficult to get into the 80's because it requires a lot more patience, self-control and !Removed!-mindedness!! (I find the temptation to plant it and launch the car at any opportunity is hard to resist in this car...   God knows what it'll be like when I eventually get an EV...!  )

 

What MPG can you expect with town driving. I often wonder how often owners actually use motorways on any regular basis. Can you give 3 major pros and 3 major cons of ownership of the MK4 what would these be. 🤔

 

 

 

[Cyker]

It's very dependent on traffic - If the traffic is slow but flowing you can still get very high mpg's, but in traffic that has you stop regularly for lengthy periods (i.e. normal London traffic, thanks to KHAAAAN! and local councils stupid LTNs), then either 1) In summer the AC draws a lot of power which makes the engine run more while your stationary, which wastes fuel, or b) The cold causes the engine to run to generate heat which... wastes fuel. But as long as you're actually moving, the engine can leverage its magic efficiency-zone to move the car and charge the Battery with a much lower mpg hit than when stationary.

This has been the lowest mpg I've had so far in (nearly?) 2 years of ownership (Low 60's; Previously it was high-60s/low-70s IIRC), and I think it's down to the cold and me taking these slow congested routes; I'll be interested to see what the difference is once I get my windscreen repaired and start hooning home via the motorway and A-roads again!

Off the top of my head for pros and cons...

Pros:

• Unbelievable fuel economy; Genuinely economical unlike a lot of cars - In those you have to drive economically; This you can drive like me and still get high mpg!
• Quick and responsive acceleration, braking - It's not fast in terms of speed, but it will beat most cars off the line from a stand-still and even at motorway speeds will still respond near-instantly and haul if you demand beans from it. The brakes are eye-wateringly strong and they fixed the ABS so it doesn't halve your braking force as badly when it kicks in as the Mk1 did! (That thing was terrifying if you were braking in the wet and went over a manhole cover; ABS would kick in and the whole car would lurch forward as half the braking force suddenly disappeared!!  )
• Agile and engaging steering and handling - While the electric steering is a bit over-assisted and not a patch on the hydraulic steering of my Mk1 in terms of feedback, the chassis is much more communicative than any previous Yaris and you can drive by the seat of your pants almost. IMHO it's right up there with the Fiesta in terms of handling. It also goes round corners without the traditional Yaris feeling like it's about to roll over  
• Driver friendly tech and controls - Has physical controls for the important things, can practically drive itself with the radar-cruise and lane following, won't let you crash it (Makes a good new driver car  )

Cons:

• World's Most Uncomfortable Seat (Might just be the 'sports seats' in the higher trims) - It has no lumbar support at all. If you have back problems, you will likely need some sort of back support insert. If you don't have back problems, you will after doing a long journey in these seats!
• Practically non-existent rear 270 degrees visibility - Rear camera is essential and parking sensors highly recommended because of this; In every car I've owned I could look back and do long reverse manoeuvres at a fair speed with full confidence; In this it's far too dangerous because you can't see anything past the C-pillars, so I'm forced to look forwards and use the mirrors and reversing cameras, which is a lot slower
• Rear doors don't open enough, making entry awkward; Rear seat space barely acceptable but still far less leg room than my previous Mk1 and Mk2s
• Overly-intrusive safety systems - As discussed in many threads, it is not tuned for city use and is very prone to false positives for collision warnings and lane departure warnings, sometimes to the point of overriding my control at very inappropriate times. Is perfect for anywhere that isn't a city tho'!

It's a damned good car, maybe one of the best Toyota have ever made dare I say, and despite the fact that I bought it new (Which is something I normally consider very foolish!) and from a dealer that I dislike, I have had surprisingly low amounts of buyer's remorse, which is a good sign.

It might just be because I had such a miserable time with the Mk2, but the Mk4 has really brought back the joy of driving for me.

It's also the only car I've found on the market that I consider a worthy successor to my old Mk1 D4D, which was also an exceptionally frugal car while still being a lot of fun to drive (That turbo-diesel torque was also very addictive  ) - Most 'economical' cars are only economical if you drive them economically, but the Mk4 and Mk1 D4D share a rare trait, i.e. that they're naturally economical, so even if you thrash them around you can still get bizarrely good mpg!, and while I miss some of the Yarisisms from the Mk1 and Mk2, like the sunroof, sliding rear seats and large number of closeable storage bins, it makes up for it in other ways.

 

[Bper]

51 minutes ago, Cyker said:

It's very dependent on traffic - If the traffic is slow but flowing you can still get very high mpg's, but in traffic that has you stop regularly for lengthy periods (i.e. normal London traffic, thanks to KHAAAAN! and local councils stupid LTNs), then either 1) In summer the AC draws a lot of power which makes the engine run more while your stationary, which wastes fuel, or b) The cold causes the engine to run to generate heat which... wastes fuel. But as long as you're actually moving, the engine can leverage its magic efficiency-zone to move the car and charge the battery with a much lower mpg hit than when stationary.

This has been the lowest mpg I've had so far in (nearly?) 2 years of ownership (Low 60's; Previously it was high-60s/low-70s IIRC), and I think it's down to the cold and me taking these slow congested routes; I'll be interested to see what the difference is once I get my windscreen repaired and start hooning home via the motorway and A-roads again!

Off the top of my head for pros and cons...

Pros:

• Unbelievable fuel economy; Genuinely economical unlike a lot of cars - In those you have to drive economically; This you can drive like me and still get high mpg!
• Quick and responsive acceleration, braking - It's not fast in terms of speed, but it will beat most cars off the line from a stand-still and even at motorway speeds will still respond near-instantly and haul if you demand beans from it. The brakes are eye-wateringly strong and they fixed the ABS so it doesn't halve your braking force as badly when it kicks in as the Mk1 did! (That thing was terrifying if you were braking in the wet and went over a manhole cover; ABS would kick in and the whole car would lurch forward as half the braking force suddenly disappeared!!  )
• Agile and engaging steering and handling - While the electric steering is a bit over-assisted and not a patch on the hydraulic steering of my Mk1 in terms of feedback, the chassis is much more communicative than any previous Yaris and you can drive by the seat of your pants almost. IMHO it's right up there with the Fiesta in terms of handling. It also goes round corners without the traditional Yaris feeling like it's about to roll over  
• Driver friendly tech and controls - Has physical controls for the important things, can practically drive itself with the radar-cruise and lane following, won't let you crash it (Makes a good new driver car  )

Cons:

• World's Most Uncomfortable Seat (Might just be the 'sports seats' in the higher trims) - It has no lumbar support at all. If you have back problems, you will likely need some sort of back support insert. If you don't have back problems, you will after doing a long journey in these seats!
• Practically non-existent rear 270 degrees visibility - Rear camera is essential and parking sensors highly recommended because of this; In every car I've owned I could look back and do long reverse manoeuvres at a fair speed with full confidence; In this it's far too dangerous because you can't see anything past the C-pillars, so I'm forced to look forwards and use the mirrors and reversing cameras, which is a lot slower
• Rear doors don't open enough, making entry awkward; Rear seat space barely acceptable but still far less leg room than my previous Mk1 and Mk2s
• Overly-intrusive safety systems - As discussed in many threads, it is not tuned for city use and is very prone to false positives for collision warnings and lane departure warnings, sometimes to the point of overriding my control at very inappropriate times. Is perfect for anywhere that isn't a city tho'!

It's a damned good car, maybe one of the best Toyota have ever made dare I say, and despite the fact that I bought it new (Which is something I normally consider very foolish!) and from a dealer that I dislike, I have had surprisingly low amounts of buyer's remorse, which is a good sign.

It might just be because I had such a miserable time with the Mk2, but the Mk4 has really brought back the joy of driving for me.

It's also the only car I've found on the market that I consider a worthy successor to my old Mk1 D4D, which was also an exceptionally frugal car while still being a lot of fun to drive (That turbo-diesel torque was also very addictive  ) - Most 'economical' cars are only economical if you drive them economically, but the Mk4 and Mk1 D4D share a rare trait, i.e. that they're naturally economical, so even if you thrash them around you can still get bizarrely good mpg!, and while I miss some of the Yarisisms from the Mk1 and Mk2, like the sunroof, sliding rear seats and large number of closeable storage bins, it makes up for it in other ways.

 

Well that's a comprehensive report I must say. Have you ever considered a job as car reviewer? 😁 I can see the pros and cons and this is without doubt a great car that serves your needs. I have to be honest and say that since owning a couple of Lexus' I have yet to find a car with equal refinement and quality. As age now plays more into the equation of choice anything that would potentially have an impact on back issues or comfort over driving distances would now be ruled out.

However, as this forum is Toyota and not Lexus, like for like should not be used. As a first venture in owning a Toyota I have found the Auris 1.2T to be a good choice for our needs. It is like many Toyota's, not the smoothest of rides but has many features that outstrip many of its rivals. 

I believe the next step will be to purchase a hybrid but which one of the Toyota range I will take great pleasure in deciding in due course. 

But great insight in to owning and driving the Yaris mk4👍

 

 

 

 

 

[Cyker]

Ha! Thanks but this is just OCD combined with a propensity to talk too much on stuff I'm interested in  

But that's a point, I have to say it is definitely a Toyota and not a Lexus in terms of fit and finish...! 

If you're used to Lexus or German build quality.... the Mk4 is not going to impress. It doesn't have the cm-wide panel gaps the Mk2 had, but there is lots of stuff that doesn't seem like it quite fits together 100% correctly and it is quite plasticky, although they've put some sort of rubberized coating on a lot of the plastics to try and disguise the fact that it's plastic. The plastic is very tough tho' (I was scared I might break some of the trim when I was pulling it out to run my Dashcam wiring, but it is extremely robust!)

Being used to cheap ****boxes this doesn't bother me much as I'm very much a function over form person, but my colleague is always pawing at the plastic complaining how cheap-feeling it all is (He's an audi/vw person), while I just roll my eyes and tell him he can pay 10k more for a pretty nice-feeling thirsty road-side ornament if he wants but I'm sticking with this

I will say if you want a comfortable cruiser this isn't the best choice, but for an engaging drive and the ultimate in fuel economy then it's probably the best choice on the market right now. It even gives EVs a run for their money for running costs!