Suggestion which Avensis is the most reliable

[AisinW]

I just learned Some cars are prone to corrosion. Almost all Mazda, pre 2014 benz, pre 2009 Accord, etc. Toyota have better corrosion protection in general. Surface rust in suspension parts are much less on newer cars with full plastic underbody panels in 2004 prius and newer. 

In general I avoid any direct injection only, Valvematic, and very old hybrid. I only drive automatic and none of German cars are in my list. What I had found for about 70-100k miles:

1. Corolla automatic 4 speed post 2006 1.6L or post 2005 avensis 1.8L >€4k

2. Accord 2009 2.0L >€8k

3. Yaris hybrid pre 2015 without TPMS >€8k

4. Auris 2015 or newer. >€13k

So, it really depends on the budget and how often i will drive/use it. It is mostly for city/suburban errands because my Auris 2 is my main car for a long trips. Probably 5-10k miles per year.  Which  valvematic revision is less problematic?  What I knew, 2009-2012 USA corolla eco are all problematic in Corolla standard.  

I hate that used cars today is 30% more expensive  than the same exact year and mileage in 2019. 

[2009joe]

11 hours ago, AisinW said:

I just learned Some cars are prone to corrosion. Almost all Mazda, pre 2014 benz, pre 2009 Accord, etc. Toyota have better corrosion protection in general. Surface rust in suspension parts are much less on newer cars with full plastic underbody panels in 2004 prius and newer. 

In general I avoid any direct injection only, Valvematic, and very old hybrid. I only drive automatic and none of German cars are in my list. What I had found for about 70-100k miles:

1. Corolla automatic 4 speed post 2006 1.6L or post 2005 avensis 1.8L >€4k

2. Accord 2009 2.0L >€8k

3. Yaris hybrid pre 2015 without TPMS >€8k

4. Auris 2015 or newer. >€13k

So, it really depends on the budget and how often i will drive/use it. It is mostly for city/suburban errands because my Auris 2 is my main car for a long trips. Probably 5-10k miles per year.  Which  valvematic revision is less problematic?  What I knew, 2009-2012 USA corolla eco are all problematic in Corolla standard.  

I hate that used cars today is 30% more expensive  than the same exact year and mileage in 2019. 

when  you say Auris 2015 or newer. i was looking at those they dont come with the 2.0 d4d 1adftv engine there smaller diesel engines and well there not very powerful either going by the bhp specs on them 

[TonyHSD]

Diesel fuel too expensive these days otherwise an Auris 1.4d would make the perfect runaround. But also diesels are hated and not welcome in populated areas so it might not be a good deal. Outside Toyota hybrids models there are very few petrol powered cars that really worth attention. Most cars are direct injection, double clutch boxes, turbo, etc full of problems cars and when turning 5 year old and more they bring nothing but trouble to the owners. Yaris 1.5 2014-2019:manual seems to me like a good alternative. 

[2009joe]

16 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Diesel fuel too expensive these days otherwise an Auris 1.4d would make the perfect runaround. But also diesels are hated and not welcome in populated areas so it might not be a good deal. Outside Toyota hybrids models there are very few petrol powered cars that really worth attention. Most cars are direct injection, double clutch boxes, turbo, etc full of problems cars and when turning 5 year old and more they bring nothing but trouble to the owners. Yaris 1.5 2014-2019:manual seems to me like a good alternative. 

i was thinking about those even to a point in selling my avensis off and getting a car tbh my wife would like to drive she thinks the avensis is 2 big lol which i didnt think was a big deal as she liked driving it on a car test drive she liked it. but tbh i cant see me going for something with low bhp as thos toyota auris diesel ones , i looked up those toyota yaris i see there diesel 1.4 and im not even sure it there turbo diesel 

[NeilAvensisT]

8 hours ago, 2009joe said:

i was thinking about those even to a point in selling my avensis off and getting a car tbh my wife would like to drive she thinks the avensis is 2 big lol which i didnt think was a big deal as she liked driving it on a car test drive she liked it. but tbh i cant see me going for something with low bhp as thos toyota auris diesel ones , i looked up those toyota yaris i see there diesel 1.4 and im not even sure it there turbo diesel 

I have, previously, had Turbo Diesels for many, many years. Remember Tony Blair/Gordon Brown telling us how great they were for the environment?? I came to the conclusion in November 2021, when I was looking to change the car that they are just not worth the hassle anymore. More complex, troublesome, the fuel price is more expensive and all big cities seem to be forcing them out. I went for the 1.8 Petrol Valvematic Avensis (2010) as these are far less complex than a TD, easier to service, change clutches etc., and it does give or take, in the real world pretty much the same MPG as a TD (and the fuel price is circa 25p cheaper per litre). The only thing I really miss is the low down torque!

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, NeilAvensisT said:

I have, previously, had Turbo Diesels for many, many years. Remember Tony Blair/Gordon Brown telling us how great they were for the environment?? I came to the conclusion in November 2021, when I was looking to change the car that they are just not worth the hassle anymore. More complex, troublesome, the fuel price is more expensive and all big cities seem to be forcing them out. I went for the 1.8 Petrol Valvematic Avensis (2010) as these are far less complex than a TD, easier to service, change clutches etc., and it does give or take, in the real world pretty much the same MPG as a TD (and the fuel price is circa 25p cheaper per litre). The only thing I really miss is the low down torque!

Absolutely. The best Avensis possible., the 1.8 is the same engine as the hybrids without the Battery and electric motor. Most reliable, easiest to drive, and with good efficiency. Who cares about bhp, torque etc, diesels in many cases only gives a fake feeling of these two and in reality they aren’t as fast as many people believe. Toyota standard cars aren’t sport cars to expect certain performance, they are tools, appliances that deliver their promise the best of all others. 👍

[SB1500]

If you're looking at a 2015 - 2018 final Avensis with the facelift, I'd say avoid the diesels. I have the 1.6 and whilst I will live with it for as long as it can revolve, and it's not the worst of the worst, the MPG is severely lacking - 62mpg in the book, about 42 - 48 with 95% light foot driving on a mix of short journeys / longer extended drives putting the foot down at motorway speed.  The 2.0 is apparently a bit faster and easier to live with in that department, but surely worse on the juice as a consequence.  

The 1.8 Petrol is what I'd get. Wish I had have, especially with the automatic but you'll pay a good £4-5,000 more for an equivalent manual diesel 2015-18, and then you're into new territory in terms of your options with other models and brands which makes the Avensis a harder sell. The infotainment also shows its age now and is actually slow when it's working fine, I have adapted from this, but had I known all of this I'd have probably made a different decision last year. 

The 1.6 and 2.0 diesels from 2015 on (and in the Auris) are BMW Mini / 1 Series diesel engines as well. Improved by Toyota, but it is unclear exactly what they changed and didn't change. It needed the EGR recall that the BMW cars needed though I suspect not a lot has changed really.  The early BMW cars had snapping chain issues I think too, which was resolved before Toyota started using them, but these engines are a refined version of those N47 / N57 German oil burners.   My Avensis thread will prove to be a good indicator of how reliable / long these things last as I am servicing it twice a year with genuine Toyota oil and filters.... but of course should that turn out bad, it won't be much use to you as a buyer today lol 

Tl;dr: I say go for the Petrol! You're buying a 100% Toyota then, and that can not be a bad thing.  

[2009joe]

5 hours ago, NeilAvensisT said:

I have, previously, had Turbo Diesels for many, many years. Remember Tony Blair/Gordon Brown telling us how great they were for the environment?? I came to the conclusion in November 2021, when I was looking to change the car that they are just not worth the hassle anymore. More complex, troublesome, the fuel price is more expensive and all big cities seem to be forcing them out. I went for the 1.8 Petrol Valvematic Avensis (2010) as these are far less complex than a TD, easier to service, change clutches etc., and it does give or take, in the real world pretty much the same MPG as a TD (and the fuel price is circa 25p cheaper per litre). The only thing I really miss is the low down torque!

Well the good thing where I'm at I have no bother here about having to pay for the pleasure of driving in a city due to costs .things are good ATM with me and we'll I'm still thinking about just keeping my car as it is nearly new when I got it and it's a great well spec car I was thinking about it when I looked at those other Toyota diesels auris etc the engine on those bhp is  low so that not work for me plus I really love the sound of the diesel they are built tough lol it's just what I'm used to 

[AisinW]

Yes, diesel had been dropped by Toyota and Honda.  Newer models like CRV, Civic and 2023 Corolla come only in hybrid.  The diesel is completely gone years ago in trully Toyota and Honda for obvious reasons.  The complex, expensive, fragile emission systems (DPF, bluetec, etc.) cost even more than hybrid system components (inverter and HV battery).   The only Diesel that works well are pre-2008 without DPF and complicated emission system. However, the tax is much higher on those, more than  €300 per year. 

For a spare car and commuter, yaris hybrid is probably the best option now for about €7000-€10 000 or Corolla/Avensis 2006-newer non direct injections for €4000-6000.  I cannot drive manual (so emberassing)  because I just never need to drive manual. Besides that, 99.9999% cars sold in USA  are automatic. 

[SB1500]

8 minutes ago, AisinW said:

Yes, diesel had been dropped by Toyota and Honda.  Newer models like CRV, Civic and 2023 Corolla come only in hybrid.  The diesel is completely gone years ago in trully Toyota and Honda for obvious reasons.  The complex, expensive, fragile emission systems (DPF, bluetec, etc.) cost even more than hybrid system components (inverter and HV battery).   The only Diesel that works well are pre-2008 without DPF and complicated emission system. However, the tax is much higher on those, more than  €300 per year. 

For a spare car and commuter, yaris hybrid is probably the best option now for about €7000-€10 000 or Corolla/Avensis 2006-newer non direct injections for €4000-6000.  I cannot drive manual (so emberassing)  because I just never need to drive manual.  My first car was 99 Sentra, I bought it with my Learner permit before I learned to drive. My friend thought me driving with my own car for couple days before I can chedule and pass driving exams. That's how we get driver license in USA.

Diesels should never have been evolved down into the finely tuned, complex systems we have in something the size of a passenger car now from 20+ years of market attention and stimulated demand from customers. Total waste of two decades of big investment, many peoples personal big investments in their cars and lies that they were greener. We're entering into the next chapter of EVs which will end up exactly the same, not solving the problems (which the same folk say is now an 'emergency', though insist on non solutions) at the cost of everyday people, and it's not like the car companies believe in it any more than they believed in diesel, hard policy from the EU, in the US states like California and other governing bodies are giving them no choice. With limited room on four courts, production capacity and design time and facilities, they can't have entire lines of EV and non EV cars - not even how they had diesel and petrol since the cars were 85% the same and differences in weight etc weren't big obstacles, just uprated suspension and more sound deadening usually. They're being made to believe in the same kind of notion. I'm really disappointed that Toyota's new CEO is caving to the pressure. I'd say it'll be worse than the last 25 years of the diesel rise and fall since we're being offset so much more, in so much more many ways.  

How much persuading did it take for us all to adopt smartphones? Barely any. Because they were a phenomenal breakthrough, did so much for us, nobody ever looks back at their phones from before this other than nostalgia. I have to say, in first world consumer driven countries like ours, if somethings a good idea, it shouldn't take government level persuasion and pressure to force the innovation from the companies to make it work and for people to adopt it.... the average person doesn't need to know any more about how their car works than they do their iPhone, a few sentences and demo is enough to spread a good idea. EV's aren't that, I think it's so evident and I can't wait for the 2030 and 2035 deadlines to be delayed because of the reality... 

[Chelyuskin]

I will only speak of the T25 model, since I've been driving one for 19 years.

Good options are the ZZ-FE engines: 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 liter petrol units produced after May 2005 when the oil control issues were resolved. They are highly reliable and last over 200,000 miles. They have a few issues: the timing chain can strech, idle control valve sticks and the rear engine mount gives way on the larger displacement models. Do not get one that burns oil as these engines are disposable / non-rebuildable.

In respect to Diesels, Toyota isn't the greatest, but if you want one I suggest the iron-block 1CD-FTV (116 hp) which I still drive to this day. In it's core the engine is reliable but the Denso fuel system is short lived, the injectors being the weak point (last 200,000 miles at best). Replacements are improved with graphite coated parts and will outlast the car. Sometimes the pump SCV valves can stick and require cleaning or replacement. These engines came with garbage LuK dual-mass flywheels that can fail as early as 50,000 miles. Replace with Aisin solid conversion kits and you're good to go. The gearbox is designed for petrol cars with the 5th gear bearing being a weak point, it can be replaced without pulling the gearbox. Minor issues include the oil pressure sensor, leaking water pumps (gaskets), noisy idler pulleys and sticking EGR valves, all of which are easily rectified. This engine will last over 500,000 miles if you take care of it and replace a set of injectors.

THE ONES TO AVOID:

AD series of Diesels: this includes the 1AD-FTV (126 hp), 2AD-FTV (149 hp) and 2AD-FHV (177 hp) or D-CAT as they are known. A lot of these tend to run fine up to 150,000 miles then turn into a spiral of problems. Pre-2009 suffered from head gasket (erosion) issues and many of them consume oil due to slack piston rings. This in combination with high EGR rates causes the intake tract to clog up and require cleaning every 20,000 miles to restore power and efficiency. Unlike the 1CD, the fuel system is more reliable but Piezzo units on the D-CAT are very expensive. Injector washers should be replaced more frequently. Most will develop DPF issues before 200,000 miles requiring costly replacements. Minor issues include water pump leaks, starter solenoid failures, oil leaks at chain cover and SCV valve malfunctions. In short: getting these past 200,000 miles tends to be expensive, not to mention their fuel economy isn't impressive.

And the 2.4 liter petrol (2AZ-FE) with automatic gearbox. As stated this unit has weak head bolt threads which can strip. Repairs will tally several thousand pounds and whilst there was en extended warranty, many undiscovered examples remain in the wild. Similar to the ZZ series, these had oil consumption issues up to 2006, with new piston and ring designs solving the problem. Cam phaser locks can fail, causing knocking sounds on startup, the timing chain can also strech. Minor issues include: water pump leakage, and alternator clutch failure. Overall, it's not a bad engine (thread strippage aside), however paired up with an automatic gearbox it returns horrible fuel economy and for that reason alone I wouldn't recommend it.

As for the car itself: it's quite reliable aside from a few niggles: Takata airbag recalls, headlights melting (warranty), low clutch life and master cylinder leaks, electric steering joints and racks (petrol versions), noisy brake pads, poor radio reception, hunting airmix motors, short seat fabric lifespan and front suspension bushings on Diesel equipped models. The body is well protected and rust issues are rare, concentrated mainly on the rair suspension arms. Mine is at 19 years and 225,000 miles with not much done to it. Good car considering what's available on the market right now.

[2009joe]

5 hours ago, Chelyuskin said:

I will only speak of the T25 model, since I've been driving one for 19 years.

Good options are the ZZ-FE engines: 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 liter petrol units produced after May 2005 when the oil control issues were resolved. They are highly reliable and last over 200,000 miles. They have a few issues: the timing chain can strech, idle control valve sticks and the rear engine mount gives way on the larger displacement models. Do not get one that burns oil as these engines are disposable / non-rebuildable.

In respect to Diesels, Toyota isn't the greatest, but if you want one I suggest the iron-block 1CD-FTV (116 hp) which I still drive to this day. In it's core the engine is reliable but the Denso fuel system is short lived, the injectors being the weak point (last 200,000 miles at best). Replacements are improved with graphite coated parts and will outlast the car. Sometimes the pump SCV valves can stick and require cleaning or replacement. These engines came with garbage LuK dual-mass flywheels that can fail as early as 50,000 miles. Replace with Aisin solid conversion kits and you're good to go. The gearbox is designed for petrol cars with the 5th gear bearing being a weak point, it can be replaced without pulling the gearbox. Minor issues include the oil pressure sensor, leaking water pumps (gaskets), noisy idler pulleys and sticking EGR valves, all of which are easily rectified. This engine will last over 500,000 miles if you take care of it and replace a set of injectors.

THE ONES TO AVOID:

AD series of Diesels: this includes the 1AD-FTV (126 hp), 2AD-FTV (149 hp) and 2AD-FHV (177 hp) or D-CAT as they are known. A lot of these tend to run fine up to 150,000 miles then turn into a spiral of problems. Pre-2009 suffered from head gasket (erosion) issues and many of them consume oil due to slack piston rings. This in combination with high EGR rates causes the intake tract to clog up and require cleaning every 20,000 miles to restore power and efficiency. Unlike the 1CD, the fuel system is more reliable but Piezzo units on the D-CAT are very expensive. Injector washers should be replaced more frequently. Most will develop DPF issues before 200,000 miles requiring costly replacements. Minor issues include water pump leaks, starter solenoid failures, oil leaks at chain cover and SCV valve malfunctions. In short: getting these past 200,000 miles tends to be expensive, not to mention their fuel economy isn't impressive.

And the 2.4 liter petrol (2AZ-FE) with automatic gearbox. As stated this unit has weak head bolt threads which can strip. Repairs will tally several thousand pounds and whilst there was en extended warranty, many undiscovered examples remain in the wild. Similar to the ZZ series, these had oil consumption issues up to 2006, with new piston and ring designs solving the problem. Cam phaser locks can fail, causing knocking sounds on startup, the timing chain can also strech. Minor issues include: water pump leakage, and alternator clutch failure. Overall, it's not a bad engine (thread strippage aside), however paired up with an automatic gearbox it returns horrible fuel economy and for that reason alone I wouldn't recommend it.

As for the car itself: it's quite reliable aside from a few niggles: Takata airbag recalls, headlights melting (warranty), low clutch life and master cylinder leaks, electric steering joints and racks (petrol versions), noisy brake pads, poor radio reception, hunting airmix motors, short seat fabric lifespan and front suspension bushings on Diesel equipped models. The body is well protected and rust issues are rare, concentrated mainly on the rair suspension arms. Mine is at 19 years and 225,000 miles with not much done to it. Good car considering what's available on the market right now.

sell when comes to the 1ADFTV engines with me i tbh hardly keep my cars past 160k never mind 200k  plus when you get into those miles id say the car bound to have paid for itself anyways .plus i seen a few taxi men this is why they drive them and well i asked a few with the 2013 up 2.0 1adftv engine toyota avensis and they never had much if any bother with them and they covered alot of miles on the car . tbh this is the reason why i bought the t27 toyota avensis and well the t27 in general as it looked half descent to the older ones and well the reliability of them .or i would have went with  a vw group car a audi or something. 

[Chelyuskin]

I'm talking about the T25 (2003 - 2009) model and these equipped with the AD engines are not reliable.

It's quite possible that the post 2009 versions are much better since they have revised internals and a different head gasket. I'm just not familiar with them.

Do note that most taxi drivers tend to delete emission systems making these cars less representative. I still think that when it comes to Japanese cars, their petrol engines excel over Diesels.

[Konrad C]

On 2/18/2023 at 11:47 AM, TonyHSD said:

This is really a wrong thinking and it’s the beginning of the end of any engine.
Any car except classic that barely sees any use should have oil change at every 12 months no matter how much use they gets, 1000 miles or below, or up to the maximum recommended mileage which is 10k miles on most Toyota cars.
Engine Oil has a shelf life of 5-6 years, could be even more but not recommended to use an old oil, I have tried that too and it’s no go. However once the oil is filled into the engine and the engine is run for few times then really you should replace it within the 12 months period, even if you drive daily on short trips and keep car at idle for long you may also consider 6 months or 5k miles change.  In very rare cases that you barely use the car, like let say holiday car that been only used in the summer for 2-3 weeks each year you may skip a year service but that’s it , no more than that.  The third year is critical and it’s when the oil start to form harmful deposits and with all consequences. I have my own opinion and personal experience and although I agree that there are many car myths about changing this or that the engine oil yearly change it’s not a myth but real deal and highly recommended to everyone to do it. That’s my experience, if you happy your own way that’s also fine 👍

I agree with Tony regarding oil change intervals. I change my engine oil every year with my current car Valvematic 1.8. I use fully synthetic 0w-20, the preferred grade. My car is averaging 4000 miles a year. When I owned my T22 '98 leanburn 1.8, I changed the oil twice a year using Castrol Magnatec 10w40. 
Depending on the engine especially diesel, the new engine oil gets darker after a very short time. Also most oil changes do not include a flush procedure, which would remove more of the old oil and deposits! 

I am concerned by the big gaps in oil changes, because this may shorten the engines life. Then if the car is sold on, the next owner will be lumbered with the problem if any issues occur. How the car is cared for and any records and paperwork will help determine the cars value, condition and lifespan.

  

[2009joe]

9 hours ago, Konrad C said:

I agree with Tony regarding oil change intervals. I change my engine oil every year with my current car Valvematic 1.8. I use fully synthetic 0w-20, the preferred grade. My car is averaging 4000 miles a year. When I owned my T22 '98 leanburn 1.8, I changed the oil twice a year using Castrol Magnatec 10w40. 
Depending on the engine especially diesel, the new engine oil gets darker after a very short time. Also most oil changes do not include a flush procedure, which would remove more of the old oil and deposits! 

I am concerned by the big gaps in oil changes, because this may shorten the engines life. Then if the car is sold on, the next owner will be lumbered with the problem if any issues occur. How the car is cared for and any records and paperwork will help determine the cars value, condition and lifespan.

  

Most taxi drivers I chat with and see they are driving the t27 2.0 d4d 1adftv engine and covered loads of trouble free miles .plus nearly all of them told me when the fan belt need changed they always put in a shorter one doing away with that stupid AC compressor problem. Tbh I would love 2 do away with my dpf system it's not giving any bother but I know for a fact as soon as I do away with it the UK MOT will check for it .there is where I'm stuck. Never the less if I get 150k r 200k trouble free miles IL send her down the road for a petrol/hybrid Toyota one 

[AisinW]

I had take a look both Avensis and Accord. Toyota is superior on body and rust since almost all Honda I found have underskin rust problems. Especially around the wheel well and rocker panels. The 2.0L Vtec engine is really smooth and torque happy. Avensis 1.8L is not that refine but the 2.0L is much better in power and refinement although direct injection only.  It seems the direct injection system is pretty reliable on 2.0L. The 2.4L and 1.8L post 2005 is relatively good  as long as never been overheated. The cylinder block head bolt thread are often striped off when the head gasket blown up. 

[Seb_90]

Are 2.4l petrol engines available in the UK? I've tried to find one for a test drive but no luck so far.

[2009joe]

14 hours ago, AisinW said:

I had take a look both Avensis and Accord. Toyota is superior on body and rust since almost all Honda I found have underskin rust problems. Especially around the wheel well and rocker panels. The 2.0L Vtec engine is really smooth and torque happy. Avensis 1.8L is not that refine but the 2.0L is much better in power and refinement although direct injection only.  It seems the direct injection system is pretty reliable on 2.0L. The 2.4L and 1.8L post 2005 is relatively good  as long as never been overheated. The cylinder block head bolt thread are often striped off when the head gasket blown up. 

did you take a look at any 2.0 1adftv diesel toyota avensis t27 bud

[AisinW]

No, I am avoiding Diesel because I am not using it for a cruiser. Just a cheaper 2nd car and extra storage.  I tried gasoline 2.0L 1AZ engine. 

[NeilAvensisT]

On 2/4/2023 at 8:30 AM, Konrad C said:

I just saw this post and glad AisinW (John) did some research as well as ask the questions. I own a 2009 T27 1.8 Valvematic Tourer and apart from the odd idle problem, the engine has had no issues. The other problem is the EPB (electronic parking brake). My car has had some issues with the EPB, all caused by human error. All were fixed! The other issue with early T27, models is the paint cracking around the front door strap area. I use larger washers to spread the load around the bolt area. 
I have looked at the T25 in detail and the later versions are great cars. I remember comparing my T27 with a  friends T25 Tourer - 

I was fortunate to find my T27 at a similar price to T25 at the time. My choice was down to having the newer model and what my car came with - cruise control and 6th gear for more relaxed cruising, Bluetooth handsfree as standard. In general both 1.8 engines (and other capacity petrol engines) are safe bets, especially with lots of UK cities and towns introducing ULEZ that mainly effect the diesels versions! Getting a good second-hand car will be down to how previous owners treated it and overall condition. Hopefully John will have a few years trouble free motoring.  

I to have a very similar model, a 2010 1.8 Petrol TR Valvematic. Been a great car, very, very reliable. I did a load of research, like yourself, before purchase and (in my opinion) this is the best all round Avensis.