Damaged and repaired during delivery?

[cruiserOAP]

Has anyone had a new car which had been damaged and repaired after leaving the factory and before registration? I am wondering how often this happens. It wouldn't show up in the car's insurance record.

A family member bought a new car once and five years later I found that the sill and door on one side had been replaced and there was filler in the front wing. Bearing this in mind I have asked the dealer for confirmation in writing that my new Yaris Cross has not been damaged and repaired at the dealer. It would appear to be perfectly legal to repair a car before registration and sell it as a new car. I remember the bad old days of British Leyland, when a friend of mine bought a new mini which had rust bubbles along the body seams.

[Hybrid21]

Yes Mike we've had a couple of new cars that have had repairs done, never actually noticed until had them for a few months, discovered when polishing, etc

Dealer expressed no knowledge of repairs and I feel that damage repaired before dealer received vehicles 😕

[Rav4ster]

My local dealer has big body shop and their parking is full of new unregisterred cars ready to be repaired. They only do cosmetic repairs like dents, painting. They guy who runs it said cars gets damaged during delivery quite often. This does not show on insuarence records. Also, main dealers ususally do not use fillers, they just replace the panel.

[cruiserOAP]

10 minutes ago, Hybrid21 said:

Yes Mike we've had a couple of new cars that have had repairs done, never actually noticed until had them for a few months, discovered when polishing, etc

Dealer expressed no knowledge of repairs and I feel that damage repaired before dealer received vehicles 😕

That's interesting that the dealer said they hadn't repaired the car. I believe that when cars are damaged and repaired at the factory they can be sold as new, but I'm not sure what the law is regarding cars damaged during delivery. What is the legal definition of a new car? Is it an unregistered car?

Cars have been left in outside storage for months apparently when there was a glut of new cars a few years ago.

[FROSTYBALLS]

40 minutes ago, cruiserOAP said:

It wouldn't show up in the car's insurance record.

It would appear to be perfectly legal to repair a car before registration and sell it as a new car. 

Why would it? Until a car is first registered, it wouldn't have a registration number and the insurance industry would have no interest in it.

I would suggest that a car is legally classified as new when it is first registered. The V5C will state 'Declared new at first registration'.

[cruiserOAP]

5 hours ago, cruiserOAP said:

Has anyone had a new car which had been damaged and repaired after leaving the factory and before registration? I am wondering how often this happens. It wouldn't show up in the car's insurance record.

A family member bought a new car once and five years later I found that the sill and door on one side had been replaced and there was filler in the front wing. Bearing this in mind I have asked the dealer for confirmation in writing that my new Yaris Cross has not been damaged and repaired at the dealer. It would appear to be perfectly legal to repair a car before registration and sell it as a new car. I remember the bad old days of British Leyland, when a friend of mine bought a new mini which had rust bubbles along the body seams.

I have now got it writing that my car was not damaged during delivery or at the 'depot' (I assume this means Toyota's storage facility). I'll still be checking the car carefully before accepting it. The current problem is that the dealers part ex valuation has mysteriously dropped £500 in two weeks with the dealer initially claiming it hadn't changed. I emailed a copy of the order form but haven't had a reply with an explanation. If this carries on I'll take my deposit back and go back to buying used cars.

[anchorman]

A number get damaged in transit.  It doesn’t happen like it used to but it happens. 

[Roy124]

I had a scratch.  I had it repaired.  Undetectable. 

Small dent like a blunt stick.  Undetectable. 

 

[bathtub tom]

I had a Focus and after some considerable time of ownership, I could detect a faint difference of one back door if it was clean and with a certain light. Neighbour in the motor trade took some time before they could see it and after careful examination reckoned it may have been factory rectification. There was no evidence of overspray, trim removal etc.

But once you saw it..........................................

[Yugguy1970]

What makes you think that it was, can you see any physical issues?

Damage can happen in transit.  Our rav had the rear trim cracked.  The dealer was quote honest and showed me and said I could either wait a couple of weeks and they would repair, or I could take it, they would give me my first service free, amd bring it back for repair when I was ready.

[Tel 2]

My Lady's Aygo X was damaged by a securing chain when delivered to my Dealer .

The Chip was minute & was low down on the black coloured rear bumper.

A Smart Repair would suffice but Toyota directed it to a Bodyshop delaying handover by 2 weeks.

The Dealer thanked us for being understanding & we got a full tank of petrol & a bunch of flowers @ Handover.

Tel

[RonYarisX]

On 5/19/2023 at 3:11 PM, cruiserOAP said:

I have now got it writing that my car was not damaged during delivery or at the 'depot'

I'd love to know the logic behind that one.

Wouldn't have been more productive to ask the dealer that if there were no changes in agreed circumstances, then they would guarantee the PX valaution?

[RonYarisX]

On 5/19/2023 at 9:19 AM, cruiserOAP said:

 It would appear to be perfectly legal to repair a car before registration and sell it as a new car.

Again I struggle with your logic. A car can be either be bought new or a used.

If a brand new car suffers a stone chip on the transporter anywhere from the factory to the dealership and the dealer subsequently makes a repair then how could it ever be described as a used car. Why introduce legality?

Perhaps you mean what's the difference between a damaged car and an undamaged car?

[SB1500]

I'd be absolutely raging if I bought a new car and there was something damaged and repaired - at least bodywork where it's not so easy. A light, or damaged alloy etc that can be replaced, fine, but bodywork is a pig of a thing on a car in my experience. 

I love Toyota and if I don't buy another Toyota or Lexus next, it'll be because Fiat have pulled their finger out... BUT,  just about every silver Avensis I see on the road has a darker back door than the front... You'd seriously think that it was a 'good repair' but that's just how the factory made them.    

Although in saying that, finding filler would be much worse than even this... I suppose all one can really do is inspect and look around every aspect of the car as soon as possible after taking delivery and not making the assumption that "it's brand new therefore I don't need to check". You've got something like 6 months to reject a new car by law. Special provisions in that period for them not being able to pull out the usual excuses or delays or wasting of your time. 

[Derek.w]

A small dint repair is one thing even replacing a panel is acceptible but BODY Filler!

[SB1500]

28 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

A small dint repair is one thing even replacing a panel is acceptible but BODY Filler!

Filler is for sure unacceptable. Should be an easy case. 

Not a new car story... but I've a friend with a Hyundai i30N. He bought his car at two year olds, 2k miles, ex demo car from a main dealer in NI. Two weeks later, he spotted a bit of the foam on the bonnet support chewed off... closer inspection, the entire engine bay had foam and protective tape all ripped off... mice had been living in it. Annihilated most of the pipe and heat shielding under the bonnet. 

He brought it up with the main dealer. They actually used the excuse 'the car wasn't like that when we sold it to you and if you can't prove that it was, it's not our problem'...   Car dealers and brands will shockingly just leave it to be your problem unless you fight tooth and nail to stand up to them. 

No reason to believe they won't turn around and say 'we didn't do the filler, prove it was there when you bought the car' in that case as well.  Theoretically in the first week you could damage and get it repaired yourself and that's what they'll rest on..

[Hybrid21]

Another thing I've came across over the years with a new car is a small chunk of glass under a seat or carpet.

Where did that come from ?

[TonyHSD]

That’s why we as consumers are protected by law haven’t we? 
Spot the issues few weeks later, like mouse chewing, painted, body repair or mechanical issues, call the dealer and arrange return for refund, not happy with the car and service overall and reject the car. We are heading towards dealer free system next I can’t wait to see this happen in the future where we could buy cars online delivered to our doors and return the same way as we do with Amazon purchases.
Dealers forecourts are old system that does not have a place in modern times anymore and only if any exists  should be for service and spare parts, no car sales. 

[SB1500]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

That’s why we as consumers are protected by law haven’t we? 
Spot the issues few weeks later, like mouse chewing, painted, body repair or mechanical issues, call the dealer and arrange return for refund, not happy with the car and service overall and reject the car. We are heading towards dealer free system next I can’t wait to see this happen in the future where we could buy cars online delivered to our doors and return the same way as we do with Amazon purchases.
Dealers forecourts are old system that does not have a place in modern times anymore and only if any exists  should be for service and spare parts, no car sales. 

I agree. I know they were protected by laws years ago to 'give them a fair chance' as dealers, but certainly outdated. Online and direct from the company is the future. Should be the way today.

I remember in 2018 / 19 going to the local franchise dealers 'mixed used car' lot locally and asking for a slight discount on Fiat's they had in stock. The guy said "see with the internet, the price we have on the window is the best we can do really, we can't put them down anymore"... Didn't even want to make an effort.  Another dealer / franchise had a 4 year old Panda, 5.5k, middle spec but with 60k miles. I told him if he'd put it down to 5k, I'd buy it for convenience. My other option was a 2 year old Panda, 17k miles, same mid spec but with steering controls / bluetooth pack, also for £5.5k at Motorpoint in Burnley. He didn't believe that I was actually going to buy it, but he wouldn't come down on price at all.  Same with other dealers at the time, looked at some nice 208s as well, wouldn't come down on price not even a tad.  Ended up getting the Burnley car moved up to Glasgow, £80 flight, went over and got it and bought it.  I checked up and that 5.5k Panda was for sale for the next 5 months until they eventually put it down to £4.8k...  Can't even give customers a deal (or price it in such a way that gives the illusion of a deal). 

I bet Toyota could give us a better service than its dealers even if they had regional service centres with a network of car transporters (maybe a partnership with another company) and a deal with Enterprise etc for courtesy cars and a centralised single customer service department that isn't as worried about its bottom line. Same with all the makes (well, maybe not H****** or K** but most of em ;-)) 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

We are heading towards dealer free system next I can’t wait to see this happen in the future where we could buy cars online delivered to our doors and return the same way as we do with Amazon purchases.

Possibly not.

Interesting article from Car Dealer Magazine previously posted:

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/toyota-and-lexus-has-no-plans-to-sell-cars-directly-to-consumers-with-agency-sales/281424

Interesting that Mercedes, who adopted agency sales at the start of the year, have had a drastic drop in market share.

[SB1500]

2 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Possibly not.

Interesting article from Car Dealer Magazine previously posted:

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/toyota-and-lexus-has-no-plans-to-sell-cars-directly-to-consumers-with-agency-sales/281424

Interesting that Mercedes, who adopted agency sales at the start of the year, have had a drastic drop in market share.

I took a look at Mercedes new facelift A-Class.... They've got rid of the little central 'mouse pad' interface thing that was standard on all trims of the 2019 onward A-Class. I had this in the CLA too, and I thought that and the steering wheel controls (plus touch - which I never needed to use) was one of these little 'all angles thought about' aspects of 'high end' cars that delighted. It's missing from the A-Class now at all trims I believe....... Steering wheel controls also changed and I don't believe as intuitive to use. I thought it was just to differentiate the A-Class hatch from the CLA saloon... nope, it's gone from the more expensive CLA too.  They're making their product worse. And I can't imagine the price has gone down either. 

I wouldn't be surprised if consumers, particularly those who trade in every 3 years, are refusing to step down and pay more... Not most Mercedes buyers anyway. But I also don't think any willing Mercedes buyer will be stopped from having their latest lawn ornament by the channel of purchase, I'm sure these folks get what they want whether it's online, at the dealership or via the agents? 

[SB1500]

2 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Possibly not.

Interesting article from Car Dealer Magazine previously posted:

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/toyota-and-lexus-has-no-plans-to-sell-cars-directly-to-consumers-with-agency-sales/281424

Interesting that Mercedes, who adopted agency sales at the start of the year, have had a drastic drop in market share.

In fairness though, I have to admit my local Toyota dealership has been great. It beat all my expectations of that franchise generally from the past. They price things fairly. They do what they say (of course I check it) and they tend to have the things I need in stock, fast. Can't ask for more than that really. I can't blame them for the pricing at the minute, but if I were to buy a new car in normal times I'd not hesitate to use them unless someone else was willing to drastically undercut them

[TonyHSD]

Most Toyota dealers are usually on the better side when compared to other makes. I have few positive and few negative experiences, but overall they are ok. I hear a lots of poor service from dealers who trade with makes like vw, Audi, Range Rover, peruse the products they offer quality not at the top and consequently the dealer has to fight back and defeat. 🫢 Car trade is what 150 years old but together with estate agents are two business that we should take extra care with when dealing and no easy trusting in either of these. 

[anchorman]

They’ve just updated the Lexus UX by doing away with that dreadful trackpad.  That’ll be my next car.

[SB1500]

46 minutes ago, anchorman said:

They’ve just updated the Lexus UX by doing away with that dreadful trackpad.  That’ll be my next car.

I've never tried the Lexus one yet, though I did think it was a bit of a copy of the German Merc system / BMW system... It was decent on the Merc, it was like the 'haptic feedback' on a MacBook trackpad, physical feedback when pushed / clicked. I preferred it when driving and it made it easy for passengers to easy control the infotainment screen as well (no awkward holding their hands up as the car goes over bumps). 

I like Mazda's little physical dial system, that's quite good. 

The industry is headed toward touch only... what a !Removed! nightmare. I love technology and I'll use it anywhere, as much as I can (sometimes maybe even for the sake of it). But it is NOT a good idea for touch only controls for heating or any of the basic important functions of a modern car. You need to be able to feel for it and control it with some precision at all times whilst keeping your eyes on the road. 

Gotta laugh at VW's awful Golf implementation though... the heated / cooled seat control you have to cycle through and if you miss it, you have to touch (with focus) the screen a tonne of times to get back around to the setting you are seeking, whilst keeping the car between the hedges... Never too big to fall off in this world we live in.