Toyota Land Cruiser Probs.... Please Help Me!

[radio head]

I have an automatic Toyota Land Cruiser Amazon which is experiencing gearbox problems. It does not want to go into neutral when slowing to a stop (ie slowing down to stop at a junction). As you can imagine this needs sorting out and the dealers seem to know nothing, having tried to fix it 3 times!

Please help me!!!!!!!

[freddie]

I have an automatic Toyota Land Cruiser Amazon which is experiencing gearbox problems. It does not want to go into neutral when slowing to a stop (ie slowing down to stop at a junction). As you can imagine this needs sorting out and the dealers seem to know nothing, having tried to fix it 3 times!

Please help me!!!!!!!

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[freddie]

I have an automatic Toyota Land Cruiser Amazon which is experiencing gearbox problems. It does not want to go into neutral when slowing to a stop (ie slowing down to stop at a junction). As you can imagine this needs sorting out and the dealers seem to know nothing, having tried to fix it 3 times!

Please help me!!!!!!!

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[freddie]

hi yes i have had lots of problems whith toyota main dealers they only seem to want to do oil and filters.

have they done a diagnostic test have you tried an independent auto transmission garage what age and how many miles has this vehicle done

can you operate the gears manualy

[Andy]

Please explain a bit more, are you trying to put it in neutral using the gear selector.

[radio head]

hi yes i have had lots of problems whith toyota main dealers they only seem to want to do oil and filters.

have they done a diagnostic test  have you tried an independent auto transmission garage what age and how many miles has this vehicle done

can you operate the gears manualy

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the land cruiser is 3 years old and has done 43,000 miles. Sadly you cannot operate the geras manually so the problem is always there! The diagnostic test did not give anything away.

[radio head]

Please explain a bit more, are you trying to put it in neutral using the gear selector.

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No, I'm just driving up to the junction still in drive and just as you are almost at a stop and wanting to go into neutral the car keeps creeping forward not wanting to slip into the last stage.

[stevetubbyturbo]

Hi mate

just a couple of questions to help me see whats happening

1) when you have it showing neutral selected and foot on the brake when you release the brake does it creep forward?

2) when in neutral can you drive it like its in drive?

3) are all the other gears ok like when in reverse it reversres and when in drive it drives normally?

If you could answer them i may get an idea of whats doing on (no promises though)

[Andy]

Please explain a bit more, are you trying to put it in neutral using the gear selector.

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No, I'm just driving up to the junction still in drive and just as you are almost at a stop and wanting to go into neutral the car keeps creeping forward not wanting to slip into the last stage.

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The auto will still creep forward if you take your foot off the brakes.

[radio head]

Hi mate

just a couple of questions to help me see whats happening

1) when you have it showing neutral selected and foot on the brake when you release the brake does it creep forward?

2) when in neutral can you drive it like its in drive?

3) are all the other gears ok like when in reverse it reversres and when in drive it drives normally?

If you could answer them i may get an idea of whats doing on (no promises though)

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[radio head]

Hi mate

just a couple of questions to help me see whats happening

1) when you have it showing neutral selected and foot on the brake when you release the brake does it creep forward?

2) when in neutral can you drive it like its in drive?

3) are all the other gears ok like when in reverse it reversres and when in drive it drives normally?

If you could answer them i may get an idea of whats doing on (no promises though)

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[radio head]

Hi mate

just a couple of questions to help me see whats happening

1) when you have it showing neutral selected and foot on the brake when you release the brake does it creep forward?

2) when in neutral can you drive it like its in drive?

3) are all the other gears ok like when in reverse it reversres and when in drive it drives normally?

If you could answer them i may get an idea of whats doing on (no promises though)

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[radio head]

Hi mate

just a couple of questions to help me see whats happening

1) when you have it showing neutral selected and foot on the brake when you release the brake does it creep forward?

2) when in neutral can you drive it like its in drive?

3) are all the other gears ok like when in reverse it reversres and when in drive it drives normally?

If you could answer them i may get an idea of whats doing on (no promises though)

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a1

It's not in neutral when it does it, it's still in drive leading up to the junction

a2

no, all the gears behave in a normal way except for 1st gear when approaching a junction

a3

yes

[stevetubbyturbo]

from what you have answered you have a perfectly normal and healthy automatic.

When in drive and at idle at about 600-700 rpm there is still enough power to running through the torque converter to move the vehicle.

the reason it does this is unlike in a manual where you can seperate the drive by pushing on the clutch pedal and compresses the diapham spring and releases the friction plate.

In a automatic the drive is always conected to the gearbox by a Torque converter and the only way to disengage the drive is to put the it into neutral or park.

A torque converter is a type of fluid coupling, which allows the engine to spin somewhat independently of the transmission. If the engine is turning slowly, such as when the car is idling at a stoplight, the amount of torque passed through the torque converter is very small, so keeping the car still requires only a light pressure on the brake pedal.

If you were to step on the gas pedal while the car is stopped, you would have to press harder on the brake to keep the car from moving. This is because when you step on the gas, the engine speeds up and pumps more fluid into the torque converter, causing more torque to be transmitted to the wheels.

hope this answers your questions mate if you have any others or want more information on how it all works i'll try to answer them.

[radio head]

from what you have answered you have a perfectly normal and healthy automatic.

When in drive and at idle at about 600-700 rpm there is still enough power to running through the torque converter to move the vehicle.

the reason it does this is unlike in a manual where you can seperate the drive by pushing on the clutch pedal and compresses the diapham spring and releases the friction plate.

In a automatic the drive is always conected to the gearbox by a Torque converter and the only way to disengage the drive is to put the it into neutral or park.

A torque converter is a type of fluid coupling, which allows the engine to spin somewhat independently of the transmission. If the engine is turning slowly, such as when the car is idling at a stoplight, the amount of torque passed through the torque converter is very small, so keeping the car still requires only a light pressure on the brake pedal.

If you were to step on the gas pedal while the car is stopped, you would have to press harder on the brake to keep the car from moving. This is because when you step on the gas, the engine speeds up and pumps more fluid into the torque converter, causing more torque to be transmitted to the wheels.

hope this answers your questions mate if you have any others or want more information on how it all works i'll try to answer them.

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Wow, what an intelligent and usefull explaination!

That really is helpfull. It makes a lot of sense and seems like a logical reason why I have the problem I do. I think the torque converter is not recognising when the car slows to a certain pace and therefor keeps on pushing the car along.

Is there any common problem like lack of pressure in the system etc that you can think of that we could use to possibly fix this or is this just a random glitch that needs a new converter.

When you have a spare minute let me know mate and thanks very much again.

[jonbr]

Hi radiohead,

What stevetubbyturbo is saying is that you have a perfectly normal auto transmission.

If you have the transmission in the drive position, it will move forward unless you have your foot on the break. This is what auto's do, I've only ever heard of one that didn't and it was faulty!

So, when you are at the traffic lights, you have to keep you foot on the break, that's just the way auto's are. There's nothing wrong with yours and nothing to replace. :)

[theory900]

I've got an auto Amazon and it does exactly like yours does from the sound of it. As others have said - it's quite normal and it's what automatics do.

See if you can take another auto for a test drive and you should find that it's just the same as yours.

[stevetubbyturbo]

Hi radiohead,

What stevetubbyturbo is saying is that you have a perfectly normal auto transmission.

If you have the transmission in the drive position, it will move forward unless you have your foot on the break. This is what auto's do, I've only ever heard of one that didn't and it was faulty!

So, when you are at the traffic lights, you have to keep you foot on the break, that's just the way auto's are. There's nothing wrong with yours and nothing to replace.  :)

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Spot on mate

Radio Head trust me your car is fine as Jonbr is saying if your can didnt move when you have in drive at idle then you have a problem.

I'll try to explain it in another way,

Try to think of your torque converter as a windmill and the wind is the engine,

When there is no wind (engine off) the windmill cant spin,

When there is a small breeze (engine at idle) the windmill will turn slowly but it is creating a force and will turn the internal workings of the mill / the same goes for the Torque converter if the engine is at idle the torque converter is creating a force and when in drive this is enough to turn the gearbox and the wheels slowly and the only way to stop it is to apply a equal force to the brakes to cancel out the force created by the torque converter.

So honestly mate the car is fine and running as it should and my auto Hilux surf does this to and as ive said before if it dont move at idle you got problems

Hope this helps you mate

[radio head]

Hi radiohead,

What stevetubbyturbo is saying is that you have a perfectly normal auto transmission.

If you have the transmission in the drive position, it will move forward unless you have your foot on the break. This is what auto's do, I've only ever heard of one that didn't and it was faulty!

So, when you are at the traffic lights, you have to keep you foot on the break, that's just the way auto's are. There's nothing wrong with yours and nothing to replace.  :)

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Spot on mate

Radio Head trust me your car is fine as Jonbr is saying if your can didnt move when you have in drive at idle then you have a problem.

I'll try to explain it in another way,

Try to think of your torque converter as a windmill and the wind is the engine,

When there is no wind (engine off) the windmill cant spin,

When there is a small breeze (engine at idle) the windmill will turn slowly but it is creating a force and will turn the internal workings of the mill / the same goes for the Torque converter if the engine is at idle the torque converter is creating a force and when in drive this is enough to turn the gearbox and the wheels slowly and the only way to stop it is to apply a equal force to the brakes to cancel out the force created by the torque converter.

So honestly mate the car is fine and running as it should and my auto Hilux surf does this to and as ive said before if it dont move at idle you got problems

Hope this helps you mate

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Yeah I know with autos you need to keep your foot on the foot brake when at the lights etc but it should change down without juddering and feeling like its being forced to go into 1st gear. I think the torque convertor is possibly faulty or needs adjusting. What do you think?

[stevetubbyturbo]

as i donnt have a LC can oonly comment on what my Surf does (dut i have a feeling that the transmission is the same on both bt not 100% sure)

On mine when im in drive and im coming up to a red light when the car stops and you can feel the gearbox engage first and there is a small judder.

again not sure on the LC but if they have perment 4WD then i think you could feel a larger judder and the drive train switches the gears as it has to release top 3rd and engage 1st so there is going to be some movement so in my opinion of how auto trasmissions work yes you could quite possible feel a judder as it changes down.

[sandgroper]

Radiohead I agree with the others on the transmission but if you feel you have to put too much pressure on the brake,then maybe its idling a little too fast.

Even 50-100 rpm will make a difference.

Normally some light toe pressure will stop them from moving forward.

[Broom98]

Hi - I might be able to help here. Are you saying that when you come up to a junction it feels like the car doesn't want to stop, and sort of 'judders' forward. The effect being very similar as if you were driving a manual car and didn't dip the clutch quite quickly enough when coming up to a give way?

If so then I am afraid the torque convertor in the gearbox is knackered. This is unfortunately a very common problem on the 1998 - 2002 shape Amazons - I should know I had mine replaced in December and that was on a 2001 Amazon Active with 43,000 miles on the clock. Apparently it is a known problem but Toyota don't offer a fix other than a new gearbox. My main dealer was however very helpful and put me onto a local automatic gearbox specialist who sorted it for me. However it wasn't cheap. It involves removing the box, stripping it and washing every component part to get rid of the crud in the oil caused by the convertor breaking up, fitting a reconditioned and modified torque convertor and then putting it all back together with new seals. Inc VAT the bill was over £1100.

The problem doesn't occur on the older Amazons, or indeed the new ones (2003 onwards) as the gearboxes were different. The same being true of Surfs etc which have a different type of gearbox as well. This seems to be a fault only of Amazons of the model years above.

What was annoying is that mine was the third box they had done within a month, and when I went to pick it up a week later they had also had booked in another one in the meantime !!

Apparently the dealers 'try' to fix it by diagnosing brake judder as the cause and fitting new front disks and pads. That is what happened to me and to two out of the other three Amazons the garage had in !! I did manage to get my money back for the discs and pads though so all was not lost. However Toyota UK did politely tell me where to get off when I tried to pin some responsibility for the gearbox fault on them (£42,000 car, 43,000 miles, not suitable for the purpose it was intended etc)

The only really annoying bit was that I then wrote the car off 8 hours after picking it up - so I didn't exactly get my moneys worth :ffs:

If you need more advice, need some phone numbers, or want to talk through the fault then feel free to give me a bell on 07899 951227.

Good luck

Nick

p.s. the I still have the Landcruiser (see item number 4552422815 on E-bay). So if you are in need of a gearbox, and I don't sell it as a complete vehicle then I might break it. Not worried either way and am happy to give you details of the garage in Weymouth who were excellent