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Heel And Toe...


teekay523
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i've been able to do heel and toe quite easily in my corolla sr, but when it comes to a yaris i'm finding it really difficult due to the fact that the gas pedal is not on the same level of allignemtn with my brake as u all know the brake pedal is much higher than the gas pedal. is there anyone who can do heel and toe and if so how do u overcome this little obstacle cause i'm really having a hard time here.

Tim

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its a personal prefference reece. why do people post on car fourms when they arent old enough to drive??? who knows? but its just a technique. e.g sometimes i keep the gas on whilst changing gear is there anything wrong with that?

em its using one foot for the accelerator and brake.

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i'm really suprised a lot of ppl here have never heard of heel and toe? :o its what rally, drift, daytona ppl use.... well mainly drift and rally to get round corners much faster.Thing is just keeping ur foot on the accelorator will make u slide if the corner is sharp. hence why i wanna learn heel and toe but its !Removed! hard with the uneven level of the pedals as mentioned before. has anyone also tried left foot braking whilst in a turn ? thats a different technique for FF cars only.

Tim

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Right, what I have noticed which may be weird to others is........ That I can heel to toe alot easier in the Yaris than other cars, it may well be because im used to it.

However, In the begininning I could only use it to effect when im hurtling towards a roundabout about 40-60 mph ish. That way I can depress the pedal to enough so that I can press on the gas too. VERY miniscule movement.

Now that i have had more practice I can do it in lower gears ie 2nd. It's very useful for catching up with faster cars (not racing) say on a single carraigeway. 60 limit. They slow right down for the roundabouts because they can only do heavy brake and heavy gas.

Have you ever noticed if you go down from 3rd to 2nd the whole car chokes forward? If you heel to toe and match the revs then its a lot smoother.

A more simple way to rev match is to double clutch which is done without the foot sideways movement.

Corret these if its wrong but its how I do it.

Examples only:

Double clutch:

1. 3rd at 70mph

2. clutch out of 3rd

3. clutch in (neutral)

4. blip the throttle to say somewhere around 5000rpm at 50mph (if you've slowed down to that, less revs if lower speed) then clutch out of neutral and into 2nd.

5. Accelerate.

Heel to toe:

1. entering corner in 3rd at 70mph clutch out of gear (neutral)

2. brake for entrance

3.turn foot sideways and use heel to blip throttle. say somewhere around 5000rpm again at 50mph ( same as above, varying with speed)

4.whilst blipping shift into 2nd (remember at this time your clutch is still in.

clutch into gear and accelerate out of corner (grinning of course) :D

I use double clutch for overtaking as it doesnt choke the car when i shift down. Also good for normal everyday speeding up too. Double clutching is not something I would reccomend for cornering as you wont be able to slow down to a suitable entrance speed.

Heel to toe however is like double clutching with a brake. done nicely this can improve a lot your entrance speed and definitely exit speed plus! give you a smoother acceleration out of the corner.

Right, hope i havent bored anyone to death. :P :D :) :group-cuddles:

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To clear up some confusion, and some misconceptions in this thread...

Heel and toe is a method of using all three pedals at once...

It is used in racing cars, and i mean 'proper' racing cars, like Formula 3's, the lower end rally cars etc..

The reason it exists is, because these 'proper' race cars do not have synchromeshes on the gearbox, so as you are changing down a gear, you need to 'blip' the throttle, so as to have all the gears spinning, thus avoiding grinding gears.

The preffered method is to have your toes on the brake pedal, as you will want to control your braking with the most precision, whereas, you will simply blip the throttle, which your heel can do.

The technique has been mastered further, mainly in rally cars, due to the fact a da on the brake mid-corner can help swing the back of a car around, thus negating understeer, a problem when you do are racing on gravel and mud...

However, the need for heel and toe in a modern car, well, there just isnt one - your car will have a synchromesh, and trying to correct understeer with either left foot braking or heel and toe is not reccomended on the public roads...

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I use it for smoother gear change, even if the gearbox oes have sycho whatever the car still chokes (which puts strain on the drivetrain), but if you rev match then it wont.

no offence mate - but the T-sport doesnt develop enough horsepower to strain the drivetrain...

in all honesty, if you change gear properly (i.e. if you rev the car hard, do not lift off the throttle completley when you depress the clutch - and on the downshift, dont be harsh with the clutch) you will find that will have more positive gearchange..

and no reason to heel and toe...

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I had previously used it for fast downshifts(3rd to 2nd) where the downshift is stickiest. so that weight transfer into a corner can be properly managed.

but not on the echo due to the pedal position.

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Like said this technique really isnt needed on the public roads or in modern cars due to synchronisation of the gears which brings the gears up to speed anyway so the change is smoother. If you are driving with the heel and toe method on public highways you will probably do some damage! Also it is about as useless as non rally drivers trying left foot braking! you may find it helps on the downshifts if you normally dont hold a bit of revs whilst downshiftin but you can get a similar effect (smooth enough and simply enough for road use) by just holding some revs as you downshift.

Sorry for long post! first post in a month or so because i been on holiday (in spain on sat for 2 weeks so you will get some peace again :P )

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yep - and weight transfer (which is critical to fast cornering) has nothing to do with heal and toe - its all down to braking, accelerator pressure, gear and steering...

and in all honesty, in a FWD short wheelbase car like a yaris, heal and toe-ing into a corner would have the wrong effect on weight transfer, as you'll want perfect balance before you turn in - try braking sooner, turning, smoothly accelerate...

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  • 11 months later...

Hi,

Main thing,

Gerard.

I need your help, how do I get hold of one of those pedals?

having only recently got a T-sport, i'm still trying to drive it like my old car.

i.e. trying to heel+toe by instinct then having to quickly revert to standard practice when realising that actually I can't get to the pedal.

I'm sure you can appreciate that this is not only irritating, but also potentialy hazardous to other road users.

as an extra a bit of a rant for anyone that wants something to waste time on.

Heel + toe in a light FF is only really usefull for compressing the time for the entry into a corner

if you've come out of a 3rd gear corner and your about to go into a 2nd if you can apply brake whilst also changing gear (which heel + toe will alow you to do) then you can slow down enough to get round the corner and also get into an appropriate gear for the exit. (you'll look pretty silly if you go flying into a corner then come chuging out slowly on the other side)

as for the synchromesh talk,

the synchromesh makes it possible to change gear without the need for double clutching, it doesn't mean it can do a better job than a driver with experience.

double clutching (when done properly) allows the various gears to be at the same speed when engaging, something which is impossible for the synchromesh to do. i.e. it's a lot smoother. (smoothness is always a good thing, less stress on the components)

the skills you learn concerning rev matching will also help you should your clutch ever stop working on a stretch of road with nowhere to stop.

also, left foot braking is only of real use in a car with a turbo as a way of preventing lag.

N.B. Fidgits, no offence but if you're right about the T-Sport not being able to strain the transmission then you're suggesting that it's impossible for the transmission of any yaris to ever fail without there being a material flaw. ever???

(wonder if there's any kinda reward for longest post???)

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N.B. Fidgits, no offence but if you're right about the T-Sport not being able to strain the transmission then you're suggesting that it's impossible for the transmission of any yaris to ever fail without there being a material flaw. ever???

im on my second gearbox :) oh and welcome to TOC :)

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I always blip the throttle on downshifts coming up to corners, to keep the revs nice and high but I find heel-toe very difficult in the yaris due to the layout of the pedals.

It is possible, I've done it a few times but I dont see much point as you can't do it that fast!

If you have big feet, it may be easier I suppose.

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