Heel And Toe...

[clarky]

Been using heal and toe since I learnt - but only when appropriate

[Sion]

N.B. Fidgits, no offence but if you're right about the T-Sport not being able to strain the transmission then you're suggesting that it's impossible for the transmission of any yaris to ever fail without there being a material flaw. ever???

maybe shoulda pointed out it was a rhetorical question. lol

[Woody27]

I tried heel and toeing in the yaris but its just too wide (and i have quite big feet) It's doable im sure but as said cant really be done quickly and effectively enough to warrant it. I just apply brakes with a double declutch inbetween to basically get the effect! I dont race so i dont need to downshift fast i just use to make it smoother changing down when i want to accelerate round a bend.

[tbourner]

TBH I never even considered doing it in the Yaris, because as mentioned there's not enough power to need it. Bikers do it a lot because the engine braking is so harsh on sportsbikes.

I used to do it ALL the time in the Supra, not only was the engine braking a bit strong, and H&T made it a lot smoother when braking, it also sounded cool so I did it even when not trying to go particularly fast. :P

[seveer unaek]

I tried heel and toeing in the yaris but its just too wide (and i have quite big feet) It's doable im sure but as said cant really be done quickly and effectively enough to warrant it. I just apply brakes with a double declutch inbetween to basically get the effect! I dont race so i dont need to downshift fast i just use to make it smoother changing down when i want to accelerate round a bend.

WTF... You passed about a month ago... why in gods name are you trying advanced driving techniques?? You need to learn to drive first sunshine.

[earpl]

lmao own3d :D

[tbourner]

Also can be dangerous for people who just decide to 'give it a go' whilst driving, can cause harder braking than required etc.

Got quite worried when left foot braking was mentioned earlier, why the hell would you even consider needing to do that on public roads!!! You'll never need to be going anywhere near that fast (I'd hope).

It's that old saying: "Everyone's tried left foot braking.......... everyone's almost smashed their head on the windscreen too!".

[snellgrove]

I tried left foot braking a few times, and I think its ace - it got me round a few roundabouts at speeds that you wouldn't be able to do without it - although I never went round fast enough that y'd crash if things went a bit wrong, it let you keep a line instead of running wide and having to let off the gas & hit the brakes! (not ideal)

I was going to plan an airfield day this year, to really give it a good go and get the hang of it, but I no longer have that car, and I dont see the point of doing it in the Yaris :P the only thing I do is when going for a downshift, stick the clutch in and blip the throttle before changing - much smoother when you bring the clutch up again, no nodding heads from passengers

[teekay523]

lol omg i can't believe a thread that i started a year ago has come bk in lol. well the secret i've figured out to do heel and toe is the way u position ur foot on pedals. when breaking...instead of using the whole ball of ur foot on the brake pedal... just use the left part of the foot. so u cover only half the brake... this way u can stretch further and reach the gas pedal. took me 2 weeks to perfect on 4th to 3rd gear at 60mph. and now can downshift from 3rd to second at 40 ish mph... not recomended downshifting any higher cause theres a high chance that u can knacker the gear box if done wrongly. been downshifitng heel and toe style for nearly 8 months now and its become second nature... u get addicted to the sudden decrease in speed and high revving engine noise and also plenty of pull from the car . also use method for slowing down to traffic lights now as my brakes are shot lol.

Tim

[b1ackb1rd]

Heel and Toe? In my old MGB, Spitfire or Sprite it was essential. In a Yaris? Impossible for me, me knees whacked the wheel unless I drive in the 'giving birth' position.

Double declutching? I'm a biker so it feels weird not to especially when about to overtake or going up steep hills to maintain revs.

Left foot braking? Tried it ONCE in my smart and almost put me and the missus through the windscreen :)

[tbourner]

I tried left foot braking a few times, and I think its ace - it got me round a few roundabouts at speeds that you wouldn't be able to do without it - although I never went round fast enough that y'd crash if things went a bit wrong, it let you keep a line instead of running wide and having to let off the gas & hit the brakes! (not ideal)

Are you sure you should be braking at all round a roundabout? You can't have been going that fast otherwise you'd have got nasty oversteer when you got on the power again! To go quick round corners you MUST keep the power on (although in FWD not so much as you understeer, keep it just below the point of tyre squeal {unlike those knobs on top gear}, and in RWD not so much as you get oversteer), you should be braking before the corner and back on the throttle before turning in. Left foot braking and heel and toe are ways of (apart from drifting in rally etc) braking much faster at the end of a straight, it's nothing to do with cornering.

[Sion]

Left foot braking and heel and toe are ways of (apart from drifting in rally etc) braking much faster at the end of a straight, it's nothing to do with cornering.

(sorry, havn't figured out how to identify who the quote is from yet)

actually, it's pointless left foot braking on a straight if your not using it to keep power on for the exit from a corner i.e. going round corners with the throttle flat to the floor (mainly to avoid turbo lag). your not only trying to slow the car down but your working against the engine too.

Hi, teekay523, came across your thread when i was searching to see if it was possible to change/move the accelerator pedal level with the other pedals.

gerard posted the below link, so there is one out there

http://216.239.37.104/translate_c?hl=en&am...ficial%26sa%3DN

but havn't found anything else about it and havn't been able to contact him to ask.

can anyone help?

[teekay523]

Are you sure you should be braking at all round a roundabout? You can't have been going that fast otherwise you'd have got nasty oversteer when you got on the power again! To go quick round corners you MUST keep the power on (although in FWD not so much as you understeer, keep it just below the point of tyre squeal {unlike those knobs on top gear}, and in RWD not so much as you get oversteer), you should be braking before the corner and back on the throttle before turning in. Left foot braking and heel and toe are ways of (apart from drifting in rally etc) braking much faster at the end of a straight, it's nothing to do with cornering.

Left foot braking is done whilst ur on a turn to change the direction ur car goes in a front wheel drive... i.e. if ur going under... then left foot braking is a high level technique to use to avoid understeer. so yes it has everything to do with cornering... just most ppl would never think of using it cause too much on the brake and u oversteer and spin out. took me about a month to learn to brake with my left foot and about another to alter the direction of the car using the handbrake ever so gently. but its defo something i wouldn't advise anyone to start doing one day on roads. i used a bunch of cones on an airfield and altered the cones each time i was testing out the technique before i could change the cars direction as i saw fit :P.

Tim

[tbourner]

I did say apart from drifting in rallying etc. (although re-reading what I put it doesn't say what I meant it to at all!! ). Was talking more about the heel and toe than anything else, like I said earlier I'd hope people reading this don't go out and try left foot braking on main roads!! I'd hope they don't try heel and toe either TBH unless it's a safe area with no traffic about.

[snellgrove]

I only tried it at night when there was empty roads :) not worth even taking half a risk if theres even a single car nearby.

and it didnt oversteer.. that was in my Mazda MX-3 and that car was sooooooooooooooooooo forgiving :) even at an airfield I couldnt get it to oversteer lifting off the throttle when hitting the corner etc it just doesn't :) was a great fun car to drive.

never tried lefty braking in the Yaris - bit more sensible these days, I only blip the throttle for gear changes. You can easily get into 2nd @ 40+ without knackering the gearbox I'd say, both ends (wheels & engine) are both at the same speed, so its fine - syncro doesn't get a look-in

if you lift off round a corner in the Yaris it definately feels a bit more like it could oversteer, never had it happening (thank goodness) though. I had cheap budget tyres on when I bought my car, it was rather scary. got some Toyo's now though, feels much safer

[Woody27]

I tried heel and toeing in the yaris but its just too wide (and i have quite big feet) It's doable im sure but as said cant really be done quickly and effectively enough to warrant it. I just apply brakes with a double declutch inbetween to basically get the effect! I dont race so i dont need to downshift fast i just use to make it smoother changing down when i want to accelerate round a bend.

WTF... You passed about a month ago... why in gods name are you trying advanced driving techniques?? You need to learn to drive first sunshine.

Lol doesn't mean i cant try them I double declutch (or what i understand of it (blippin throttle on downshifts basically)) all the time to make it smoother and specially when dropping gears for an overtake or up a hill. This was basically just trying to combine the braking then blipping throttle for downshifts which i do anyway :P

I get what your saying but i had said i only tried it once just to see how it was done. Obviously this was not done in a situation that could cause me or anyone else danger! But yeah your right i do need to learn how to drive properly which i know is only from experience which is why i try to get out on the road as often as i can!

[starlet01]

To clear up some confusion, and some misconceptions in this thread...

Heel and toe is a method of using all three pedals at once...

It is used in racing cars, and i mean 'proper' racing cars, like Formula 3's, the lower end rally cars etc..

The reason it exists is, because these 'proper' race cars do not have synchromeshes on the gearbox, so as you are changing down a gear, you need to 'blip' the throttle, so as to have all the gears spinning, thus avoiding grinding gears.

The preffered method is to have your toes on the brake pedal, as you will want to control your braking with the most precision, whereas, you will simply blip the throttle, which your heel can do.

clu

The technique has been mastered further, mainly in rally cars, due to the fact a da on the brake mid-corner can help swing the back of a car around, thus negating understeer, a problem when you do are racing on gravel and mud...

However, the need for heel and toe in a modern car, well, there just isnt one - your car will have a synchromesh, and trying to correct understeer with either left foot braking or heel and toe is not reccomended on the public roads...

:D :D :D

I think you got 'double-de-clutching' mixed up with 'heel and toe'

[snellgrove]

Yes, I think he has.

double de-clutching is difficult to get right, as you really have to have the revs bang in-line with the other half of the gearbox (i.e. the wheels!)

when you get it right, it is amazing though. The gear shifter just glides into the gate as if there's nothing there and as you bring the clutch up you feel nothing!! - quite strange, but you can't help but smile from ear to ear when it happens the feeling of accomplishment!!

[earpl]

what a load of tat, heal and toe is for girls...........

real men keep their foot on the gas whilst changing....

[Red Yaris 54]

real men keep their foot on the gas whilst changing....

Just like in the MMT :D :P :P

[mcsky]

what a load of tat, heal and toe is for girls...........

real men keep their foot on the gas whilst changing....

agreed lolz :D i dont think theres really any need for heel and toe if its just everyday driving on the roads and especially in a yaris

i wud possibly try it once i get a better car like a 200sx or skyline r32, ahhhh my choices theehe, but in a little yaris, dont see the point really.

i'm with earpl, keep foot on the gas, but thats only on track tho hey buddy, i will challenge u at santa pod when ya next go lolz, my 1.0li is feelin good mwahaha, if i can keep up with a 1.6 then i shouldnt lose to u by much theehe, unless u slip a gear then i might look better in front of the crowd hahaha

[Gnome]

Why use the clutch? There's something warm & fuzzy about the crunching noise as you jam it through the gears....

[Fidgits]

Yes, I think he has.

double de-clutching is difficult to get right, as you really have to have the revs bang in-line with the other half of the gearbox (i.e. the wheels!)

when you get it right, it is amazing though. The gear shifter just glides into the gate as if there's nothing there and as you bring the clutch up you feel nothing!! - quite strange, but you can't help but smile from ear to ear when it happens the feeling of accomplishment!!

Heel and toe and double declutching are both for the same end - but used in different situations for different purposes ;)

Double declutching generally is when going up a gearbox (usually in trucks) to keep the synch and keep the engine revving so it doesnt bog down when you engage a higher gear...

Heres some advice boys - go on a 'real' racing drivers course - and you'll learn the reason for heal and toe, and why you use it, and when you use it...

and more importantly, you'll learn its completley pointless in a bog standard 'warm' hatch (or any bog standard modern car for that matter) and for road work unless you've got a serious piece of machinery that needs it...

[earpl]

agreed ah haaa.

[Yaris SR Kid]

I went on a track day in my dads S2k and silverstones FQ400 evo and the guy that was teaching me told me if i mentioned heel and toe he would push me out :P