Swap 5e-fhe Engine

[hedgy]

Hi Y'all,

I'm a newbie on here although been watching with interest for a while. Wife and I own 2 Paseo's, mine is one of the rare breed Galliano's in original condition, her's is an imported Cynos with the 5E-FHE engine.

She is not happy with the fuel consumption as she never gets out of town and is looking to acquire a standard 5E-FE engine.

Will only swap for engine in really good condition as her's has only done 47,000 miles and has good service history.

We are in South West Scotland and I can probably do the exchange if both cars are here and accompanied by a little muscle.

If interested, please get in touch.

Question: Is mine the only Galliano in Scotland??

Hedgy

[Boro Sera]

welcome aboard matey.

Personally I wouldn't have thought that the 5E-FHE would be that much more greedy than the 5E-FE..........have you tried resetting the ECU ??

[toyotasera.co.uk]

I think there must be an underlying problem. A 5E-FE is likely to give very similar fuel economy to the 5E-FHE. What fuel consumption is she getting.

Certainly the cost of buying and fitting a 5E-FE engine and ECU will run to £ 700 - £ 1000 - you can buy a lot of fuel with that.

[hedgy]

Thanks so far guys. If resetting the ECU will possibly make a difference then I must give it a go - how do I go about that please?

With my Galliano I get about 50mpg on a journey (steady 70mph) and about town it drops to around 38-40. Wife's car does about 43 - 44 mpg on a journey when taking it seriously easy (55MPH) and around town it offers no more than 30-31.

I know driving techniques can create a wide variance, but these fuigures are when I am driving.

Clearly the 5E-FHE is a much higher performance engine and we are aware that this will make something of a difference. Any ideas on how we can get a better return from her car would be very very welcome - she might even send a 'posing' photo to any sensible helpers.

Hedgy

[joe's-inner-MONG]

the only thing i could think of would be the condition of the engine.

has it been regularly serviced?

if anything the fhe unit should return equal if not better fuel consumption due to the slightly higher compression.

this puzzles me.

[toyotasera.co.uk]

I've got the 135bhp 4e-fte with a toms ecu in my car and I get 35mpg around town and 45+ on a run, so the 5E-FHE would be better than that.

reset the ecu by removing the fuse marked EFI for 30 seconds, or disconnecting the Battery for 30 seconds.

What does the temperature gauge say? A common problem with these engines is thermostat failure, thankfully they tend to fail in the open position which means that the engine takes longer to warm and is kept on the cold start cycle for longer. The cold start cycle enrichens the car and fuel consumption goes down. The temp gauge should reach halfway within 5 miles of a cold start and stay there regardless of speed.

I have found by my own scientific tests that fuel consumption is better if I use optimax and the extra cost of Optimax is covered by the increased range I get on the same amount of fuel.

[hedgy]

Thanks so far for all comments.

Re-set ECU and found no difference. Done the usual warm idle for a couple of minutes after re-connect then a gentle drive on open flat straight road for a few miles.

Temp settles quickly to mid-way from cold and remains there regardless and car regularly serviced and runs as sweet as a nut. Nothing has made a scrap of difference, still about 30 around town and I drive it very easy

Power from the import car right up the range is way beyond that of my Galliano - leaves it for dead and as far as I can tell all is standard fitments.

Anything else I can adjust or check??

[Paseo2nr]

i don't know how 30-35 is a problem. my car got nearly 31 before i started modding, granted it's lower now. I find it hard to believe that your 'seo get's 50 hwy mpg. that's on par with hybrid standards. just curious to me as well.

[*rollaboy]

that would be a lot of hassle to get a few more mpg. also, you dont know how a second hand engine has been treated unless you actually know the seller. the 5efhe is not hard on juice, and i dont think the 5efe would be any better. just my 2c

[hedgy]

Ok guys, some of your comments are useful - thank you.

The FACTS are that we have two cars which are more or less identical in weight and size, and as some of you point out, the MPG should be more or less the same - that is not the case - the difference is quite marked, albeit that re-setting the ECU has made some improvement, but they are still very different in MPG and performance.

It matters not how or why I can get more or less 50MPG (70MPH) from the Galliano on a journey and about 38 around town - these are the figures.

Is it the case that these figures are exceptional and I am looking for something from the Imported Cynos that I am unlikely to get??

If 42MPG on a journey (70MPH) and 32 around town is average, then why doesn't sdomeone say just that????

Should the performance from the Galliano with the 5E-FE engine be comparable to the Cynos with it's 5E-FHE engine??? The Galliano hasn't got a hope in hell of matching the Cynos for accelaration right across the range, although top speed is close.

Thanks to those who have posted useful hints and tips.

P.S. I have electronic parts catalogue and Workshop Manual now for these cars if anyone needs help.

Hedgy

[*rollaboy]

i thought u might get a little bit better fuel consumption from the cynos, but its not far off. there is very little difference between the 2 engines, and if there is a big gap in performance, then something is wrong

[toyotasera.co.uk]

The engines are very closely related. Differences between them should be:

The Cynos has:

• a higher compression ratio

• larger injectors (225cc verses 195cc)

• sportier cams - longer duration and higher lift.

• possibly the ACIS inlet manifold which is heavier but has dual inlet ports and a changeover system.

• the ECUs are also different.

• the gearing may also be different to suit the possible different needs of Japan and Europe.

• different exhaust manifolds

The Cynos 5E-FHE should develop between 110 and 115ps (metric horsepower) when running on high octane fuels found in Japan.

The Paseo 5E-FE should produce between 95 and 100bhp mapped for the lower octane fuels found in Europe.

I think a comparable test would be to run the Cynos on Shell Optimax (being closest to the fuels available in Japan) and the Paseo on normal Shell).

Because the Cynos has more grunt, there is always the tempation to use it which makes fuel economy suffer.

I also found out that I get better fuel consumption in my Sera running on Optimax - the improvement I got over normal branded (not supermarket) unleaded offset the increase in cost almost to the penny.

I think on long motorway runs at a steady speed, the two cars should, when running on comparable fuels (see 2 paragraphs earlier), that fuel economy should be closest. In town traffic the gap will widen.

I really don't think there is a problem, the fuel economy you're getting from the Cynos is comparable to my experiences with the Sera which has almost the same engine.

Few people have Cynoses and there were different versions, whereas the choices between Paseos is restricted to just the one engine size.

I would say that the Cynos is probably slightly lower than it should be.

Personal experience:

Sera - 110bhp 5E-FHE with automatic gearbox, 35mpg in town, 45+ on a run

Sera - 135bhp 4E-FTE Starlet turbo 1300cc engine, with manual gearbox - identical unless driving like a loon.

Both of these making use of the available acceleration at times.

[threepot]

Hi Hedgy

From my experience with honda's, A faulty lambda sensor could be the cause of your high fuel consumption.

When a lambda sensor is past its best it become weak, normally it outputs from 0-1v depending on the oxygen content of the exhaust gasse (rich/lean). If the sensor is defected it tends to output a lower voltage, this makes the ecu think the engine is running lean, so the ecu adds fuel to compensate.

I buy my lamda sensors here Some usa website, arrive quickly to the uk and the shipping is reasonable. Damn site cheaper than motorfactors usually.

[hedgy]

thanks good people of the world, we seem to be getting somewhere now.

Waiting to get an empty tank to try the higher octane fuel to see the outcome of re-setting ECU on Cynos. Already seems to be a difference, but hard to tell how much. From what you guys tell me now, I think it likely that there is nothing wrong with the fuel consumption on the Cynos - I may have been totally misled because of the excellent MPG from the Galliano and may have been chasing ghosts!! B)

Perhaps what I really should have been looking at is the way the Galliano lacks the grunt of the Cynos as it really does get seriously left behind - mind you, it really isn't a slouch after it hits 3000rpm, but up to 3000 it is sluggish - an Astra 1.4 can walk away from it but as soon as the revs hit about 3K it's almost like a different car.

Going on hols for a fortnight in the sun, will pick up when I get back and if I learn anything useful, I'll let you know.

thanks.

Hedgy

[superfreak]

Aaaargh!

I just worked out that my Sera is only returning 34mpg and thats driving at 50mph so keeping the revs low at 2000 in top gear!!!

Something is wrong right?

I thought it was because its an auto. My ex girlfriend had a paseo manual that did about 42mpg

[toyotasera.co.uk]

Superfreak - what does your water temp gauge do? It should rise to half way within 5 mins of a cold start and stay there regardless of speed. If yours doesn't your thermostat is buggered and needs changing and this is probably preventing the overdrive from engaging.

Try running 98 RON fuel. More expensive to buy but I found it was actually cheaper in the long term.

The Sera is quite heavy for its size - lots of glass = heavy plus extra rigidity in the sills to add strength.

[celica daddy]

I would be interested in the electronic parts catalogue and manual, as i just have aquired a 97 paseo with ;) engine gremlins (bottom end knock). sounds like oil starvation and dont want to scrap it. I'm relegated to my daughtres beloved ford ka B)

[Boro Sera]

>> Here you go - for the Engine at least <<

it's a fairly straight forward thing to work on , if you're 'spanner friendly' you shouldn't have too much bother

Good luck