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Pace Drivers On The Motorway


Fidgits
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How it should work:

As different cars have different braking distances and handling, each model car should be assigned a motorway speed limit. If you go through a speed camera, it'll read your reg plate and a computer will automatically know which model car you have, and decide if your going to fast for your particular car. It should also assess whether you've left a big enough braking distance/gap from the car previous to yours, so you can be fined for tailgating as well.

My reasoning is basically that 70-80mph was quite a sensible speed limit for my 1.1 fiesta. It'd be shaky and unstable at speeds afer that, and the brakes where crap.

My celica on the other hand, in all honesty, feels perfectly planted over 100 and stops in half the distance. Driving a long distance on the motorway at 70 would be pointless, time consuming and fustrating.

The law is supposed to protect people, and speed kills yes, but that would be the same arguement you'd make for reducing the motorway speed limit to 40mph. But thats stupid and impractical, as is the 70mph speed limit for many modern cars. Expecting people to stick to it is nigh on impossible, that would be like telling the population to stop eating crisps cos their bad, limit crisp sales and send out the crisp police. A few crisps arn't gonna kill me. An odd tangent, or ingenious simile, you decide.

Never heard of this before but on the face of it it seems like an excellent idea, I'd quite like it to be investigated

So an 18 to 30 year old in a Fiesta would be penalised over a blind 90 year old geriatric in a Porche? :rolleyes:

Hmm!

Time to rev up the roadster and go to collect my pension. :thumbsup:

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As different cars have different braking distances and handling, each model car should be assigned a motorway speed limit. If you go through a speed camera, it'll read your reg plate and a computer will automatically know which model car you have, and decide if your going to fast for your particular car. It should also assess whether you've left a big enough braking distance/gap from the car previous to yours, so you can be fined for tailgating as well.

That's just as bad. A modern cars stopping distance is 90% dependent on it's tyres. Fit a different brand, and the braking distance will change in the wet and dry. Perhaps DVLA should start keeping records of what tyres are fitted to your car, when you last changed them etc? I'm not aware of any modern car that isn't capable of locking up the wheels under braking.

It would also be akin to having a class system on the motorways.

It's not cars or speeding that cause accidents, it's the idiots behind the wheel. The distance you need to leave between yourself and the car in front is mainly to cover your reaction time - unless the car in front is capable of stopping instantaneously. :wacko:

I would support cameras that could detect tailgaters though, there are too many nutters who drive far too close to the car in front. But only as long as aren't also used as speed cameras (unlikely).

Good point about the tyres. You'd either need to keep un up-to date record, or have the system assume you have the same quality tyres as would be fitted to the car as stock. And said system would have to take account of the weather conditions and the driver would have to be kept informed of what that limit is at any given time. Just thought that with that new expensive number plate reading technology that's going into camera's, this would be one use they could get from it that might actually speed things along.

And it might be akin to a class system perhaps, but different cars do have different speed/stability charecteristics, its not a class system based on money, e.g. my celica's cheaper than a new 1.0 yaris. It should just be measured on the technical capabilities of the car, tested/measured on a track.

So an 18 to 30 year old in a Fiesta would be penalised over a blind 90 year old geriatric in a Porche? :rolleyes:

Hmm!

Time to rev up the roadster and go to collect my pension. :thumbsup:

Well, if my afformentioned system is penalising people that tailgate, it could look up the age of the registered owner and take into account the average reaction time when calculating the braking distance/gap required. So the 90 y/o could still go fast in the porche if they wanted, but they would have to be concious of needing to leave a bigger gap.

I don't know, I put it forward as a serious idea that could make use of this reg plate reading tech going into camera's, because my fiesta/celica experience and comparison doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. The main advantages being penalizing tailgaters for safety's sake, and alowing comuters to cut time off long tiring journeys, and have cars moving on and off the motorway quicker, reducing conjestion. I used to have to drive hundreds of motorway miles in my last job, if I'd have done 70 all the way, I swear I would have died asleep at the wheel.

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I could see insurance prices going up for cars that would be allowed to go quicker if that ever happened. Sorry to say but I don't think it would work. I reckon the next stage will be cars that automatically follow a path on the Motorway and the speed will automatically be picked, so you drive onto the motorway - the car locks in position and you go to sleep for a bit.

It can't be too far away now - BMW have got one of their cars to park itself - although thats probably cause the drivers can't do it :lol:

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I don't know, I put it forward as a serious idea that could make use of this reg plate reading tech going into camera's, because my fiesta/celica experience and comparison doesn't seem too unreasonable to me. The main advantages being penalizing tailgaters for safety's sake, and alowing comuters to cut time off long tiring journeys, and have cars moving on and off the motorway quicker, reducing conjestion. I used to have to drive hundreds of motorway miles in my last job, if I'd have done 70 all the way, I swear I would have died asleep at the wheel.

Don't get upset about it it's only a discussion in general. :thumbsup:

My lighthearted comments are not intended to ridicule your suggestion only to point out one of the loopholes. I could have mentioned company cars, borrowed cars, stolen cars, hired cars, cars hired with false documents, uninsured, drunk, false number plates, all of the above.

Unless there is a 100% system to ensure that the driver is indeed the registered owner you will end up in the same situation as we have now with the courts full of disputed ownership cases or wrongly imposed fines on innocent individuals.

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:thumbsup:

Don't get upset about it it's only a discussion in general. :thumbsup:

My lighthearted comments are not intended to ridicule your suggestion only to point out one of the loopholes. I could have mentioned company cars, borrowed cars, stolen cars, hired cars, cars hired with false documents, uninsured, drunk, false number plates, all of the above.

Unless there is a 100% system to ensure that the driver is indeed the registered owner you will end up in the same situation as we have now with the courts full of disputed ownership cases or wrongly imposed fines on innocent individuals.

Oh I'm not upset, just trying to plug the loopholes as I go, develop the idea, its out there for debate, I don't expect all to bow down and agree (I'll settle for 80% :P ). :thumbsup:

Company/lease/hire cars: Relativly, simple, make it so you need to be registered for them as well.

As for people breaking the law, stealing cars, false number plates etc. It'd be no more of a problem than it is already non? Infact the reg plate reading should help catch some of these people, e.g. the uninsured. Somone could steal your car and drive through a speed camera as it is. That doesn't really have an impact on whether a variable motorway speed system would be effective, unless I'm missing somthing.

I think the most major disadvantage to my idea's are how technology centred they are. Every car would need some kind of readout of what the speed limit imposed on their car at the time is, and ideally, some indicator to tell them if they are to close to the car infront so they have a chance to pull back a bit without being fined. But seen as technology seems to be the way the government are going, I think it can be put to some good use.

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Variable speed limits on cars .. I'm not sure it'd be a great idea as who would make the limit?

I'll start .. the speed limit for your car should be the same as your BHP per litre.

Or your BHP/2 ?

Sounds good .. and a minimum of 200bhp to get on in the first place.

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Variable speed limits on cars .. I'm not sure it'd be a great idea as who would make the limit?

I'll start .. the speed limit for your car should be the same as your BHP per litre.

Or your BHP/2 ?

Sounds good .. and a minimum of 200bhp to get on in the first place.

I was thinking more based on what the car actualy does in real world test. So your maximum speed could be somthing like whatever speed your car can do, and still come to a complete stop within x number of meters, whilst still taking into account reaction times. So I guess stopping power would be a more important factor, but generally by definition, cars with more stopping power are the more powerful cars.

I guess you could factor in other things like cornering stability, aerodynamic stability, or if it where to be really clever/dynamic, whether there is an up coming junction.

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Nah .. it means that rubbish cars like 316s and Vectras can still get on the Motorway .. I want a country full of reps in good cars!

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Sorted! :thumbsup:

Found a pace car volunteer. :yes:

z06daytona06.jpg

nah, roads are bad enough without bits of conrod, oil and random interior parts falling off all over the place

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Could fit a snowplough to the front and get it to chase the pace car at 100mph. Occasionally moving into the middle for those drivers that seem to just stay there.

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Variable speed limits on cars .. I'm not sure it'd be a great idea as who would make the limit?

I'll start .. the speed limit for your car should be the same as your BHP per litre.

Or your BHP/2 ?

Sounds good .. and a minimum of 200bhp to get on in the first place.

I was thinking more based on what the car actualy does in real world test. So your maximum speed could be somthing like whatever speed your car can do, and still come to a complete stop within x number of meters, whilst still taking into account reaction times. So I guess stopping power would be a more important factor, but generally by definition, cars with more stopping power are the more powerful cars.

I guess you could factor in other things like cornering stability, aerodynamic stability, or if it where to be really clever/dynamic, whether there is an up coming junction.

ahh - but the top speed/bhp wont work...

take the Jag XJ220 - 220mph top speed, woeful brakes most 155mph super saloons could easily beat....

the fact is, the only way you could have variable speed limits is by 'class of car'

So say - SUV's/4x4's - generally these have longer braking distances than other cars - so you restrict these to 60.

Then say, low capacity cars (say, less than 1.4) which will generally have average braking and stability, limit to 70

but then what? you cant say, oh all 'sports cars can do 90 - because Mr 1.6 MX5 and Mr 1969 MGB have nowhere near the braking or stability of Mr 911, or XK8 for that matter...

and as les said - just because you ahve the car, doesnt make it safe - the critical part is the driver, his reaction time, alertness etc...

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Crazy idea which will clog up the motorways and lead to more accidents and aggression.

Also variable speeds for categories of vehicles etc is a very complicated subject. The Co-efficient laws of Friction come into play which blows out the theories of better braking systems, sports cars and 4x4 s etc and concentrates on the physics that count. Tyre pressures ,temperatures and tread are more important than the type of vehicle.

I tried to argue a case in a court and was quoted the Co-efficient laws of Friction which basically stated that regardless of the type of vehicle i was in i would have stopped in the same distance.

The Police accident specialist gave an example of a Mini (old shape) and a Rolls Royce travelling on the same road surface at the same speed would stop in the same amount of distance due to the Co-efficient laws of Friction. (Vehicle weight, braking system, tyre tread and pressure - tyre footprint - etc all cancelled each other out reverting back to the physics of the amount of rubber in contact with the surface.)

I must stress that all of this was pre- ABS so concentrated on stopping distances in a skid.

Complicated subject!

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its stupid regardless and all the suggestions are even worse (sorry guys)

leave it at 70, better still up it a few, but still break it most of the time!

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Variable speed limits on cars .. I'm not sure it'd be a great idea as who would make the limit?

I'll start .. the speed limit for your car should be the same as your BHP per litre.

Or your BHP/2 ?

Sounds good .. and a minimum of 200bhp to get on in the first place.

I was thinking more based on what the car actualy does in real world test. So your maximum speed could be somthing like whatever speed your car can do, and still come to a complete stop within x number of meters, whilst still taking into account reaction times. So I guess stopping power would be a more important factor, but generally by definition, cars with more stopping power are the more powerful cars.

I guess you could factor in other things like cornering stability, aerodynamic stability, or if it where to be really clever/dynamic, whether there is an up coming junction.

ahh - but the top speed/bhp wont work...

take the Jag XJ220 - 220mph top speed, woeful brakes most 155mph super saloons could easily beat....

the fact is, the only way you could have variable speed limits is by 'class of car'

So say - SUV's/4x4's - generally these have longer braking distances than other cars - so you restrict these to 60.

Then say, low capacity cars (say, less than 1.4) which will generally have average braking and stability, limit to 70

but then what? you cant say, oh all 'sports cars can do 90 - because Mr 1.6 MX5 and Mr 1969 MGB have nowhere near the braking or stability of Mr 911, or XK8 for that matter...

and as les said - just because you ahve the car, doesnt make it safe - the critical part is the driver, his reaction time, alertness etc...

I'm confused. What I said, I was talking all about braking distance, car stability and reaction times. I don't think bhp/litre would make sense, though I don't think bibbs is taking it all that seriously. e.g. "200bhp minimum".

Even if the variable speed limit could never work (and I hope it could, 70mph is fustrating, I know clarkson's with me on this one), I'd think the tailgating one is a good idea, and should happen, and have more focus than speeding.

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You can't make a system that'll deal accurately with every situation, its just far too complicated. In addition to that, the more you rely on cameras taking pictures of number plates, looking up the owner in a database and sending them a fine to enforce traffic laws, the more people WILL resort to cloning etc. Its simply risk v reward and its already happening now. How many people run de-cats that are theoretically illegal? Refit the cat for the MOT each year and because there is effectively 0 chance of detection, they get away with it. Same is becoming true of number plates, virtually no chance you'll get pulled for having a cloned plate (if you've got half a brain), so why not clone it and be able to evade the ever increasing automated enforcement? NOTE I'm not condoning this, but its the way the low level criminal thinks and operates.

We need to ditch all the cameras and other automated junk and get back to having well trained Traffic Police that can judge in any given situation whether or not a driver's behaviour is dangerous and act accordingly. EDIT to say that includes more sensible enforcement of speed limits. Use the limit as a tool to punish the reckless, but leave the safe driver alone... that's how it used to be done (for the most part, always exceptions and ****ty cops but its far better than what we have now)

B)-->

QUOTE(Gareth B @ Feb 3 2006)

I tried to argue a case in a court and was quoted the Co-efficient laws of Friction which basically stated that regardless of the type of vehicle i was in i would have stopped in the same distance.

The Police accident specialist gave an example of a Mini (old shape) and a Rolls Royce travelling on the same road surface at the same speed would stop in the same amount of distance due to the Co-efficient laws of Friction. (Vehicle weight, braking system, tyre tread and pressure - tyre footprint - etc all cancelled each other out reverting back to the physics of the amount of rubber in contact with the surface.)

Yeah interesting isn't it? Only applies where all the wheels are locked of course, but that's the normal situation for most people when panic braking without ABS. Unfortunately its also a rubbish way to stop, but there you go. The Police also use it for estimating a vehicle's travelling speed, by measuring the lenghts of skid marks on the road and working back from the impact speed.

Oh no my edit broke the quote.... Hope I fixed it again

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its stupid regardless and all the suggestions are even worse (sorry guys)

leave it at 70, better still up it a few, but still break it most of the time!

of course they are :lol: (wasnt that the point? :lol: )

mind you, you have to give it to the French - their motorway speed limits are variable depending on weather...

I think its 130kph if its dry, and drops to 100 or 110 if its raining...

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its stupid regardless and all the suggestions are even worse (sorry guys)

leave it at 70, better still up it a few, but still break it most of the time!

of course they are :lol: (wasnt that the point? :lol: )

mind you, you have to give it to the French - their motorway speed limits are variable depending on weather...

I think its 130kph if its dry, and drops to 100 or 110 if its raining...

which i must say i agree with, there should be tighter laws in bad weather, especially with some of the numptys out there

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We have a system like that where the Telematics controllers will flash up reduced speed limits in bad visibility or poor surface conditions etc..

Only applies where all the wheels are locked of course, but that's the normal situation for most people when panic braking without ABS. Unfortunately its also a rubbish way to stop, but there you go.

It was also (as proven in court by the Accident Specialist) my only option to reduce my speed as quickly as possible in the circumstances where cadence (sp) braking would not have helped as there was no room to manouvre.

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What an absolute eejit numpty idea!

Yeah, lets ***** people off on the road to get them to drive slower.... when your agitated or angry, you tend to drive faster, which to me spells either undertaking galore, or alternatively, accidents that could have been avoided!

Dont speed cameras on the motorway do enough to stop people speeding? :rolleyes:

I mean, I'm no angel when it comes to speed on the motorway, and I'll hold up my hand and admit that in my little 1.3 Yaris, I put my size 5's down - sometimes you have to just to keep up with the flow of traffic, not an excuse, just a statement of fact. I'm also very placid, but the one thing I hate is being stuck behind someone and not being able to overtake.... it would make me angry....

Imagine what it would do to someone of a more volatile nature than me? I'd rather not think about it in all fairness.... :shutit:

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B)-->

QUOTE(Gareth B @ Feb 3 2006, 04:40 PM)

Only applies where all the wheels are locked of course, but that's the normal situation for most people when panic braking without ABS. Unfortunately its also a rubbish way to stop, but there you go.

It was also (as proven in court by the Accident Specialist) my only option to reduce my speed as quickly as possible in the circumstances where cadence (sp) braking would not have helped as there was no room to manouvre.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to your incident in particular. Just that for most people you're right, it wouldn't really matter what car they were driving, they'd just slam the brakes on and then press harder when they weren't slowing down quickly enough. In fact they might even stop a car with less effective brakes quicker as it'd be harder / impossible to lock them up at their free travelling speed. To be honest, I've never ended up in a situation where I've needed to use cadence braking to avoid a collision so I could well be the same... must be very hard to let off the brakes in that position.

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its stupid regardless and all the suggestions are even worse (sorry guys)

leave it at 70, better still up it a few, but still break it most of the time!

of course they are :lol: (wasnt that the point? :lol: )

mind you, you have to give it to the French - their motorway speed limits are variable depending on weather...

I think its 130kph if its dry, and drops to 100 or 110 if its raining...

which i must say i agree with, there should be tighter laws in bad weather, especially with some of the numptys out there

couldnt agree more :yes:

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pretty much related to what Jaxx and Fidgits said above - the French have the right idea. Well... the theory anyhow - the "rain" is defined as "when you have to use your windscreen wipers" so what actually happens is that people drive at 130kph until they can no longer see out of their windscreens THEN slow down!

They also have a simple, cheap way of helping you check your distance from the vehicle in fron on the autoroute. The line between carriageway and hard-shoulder has breaks in it. 2 "lengths" between the breaks is your 2 seconds at 130kph and when its wet you try to stick to 3 and if its foggy aim to have 4 between you. Works a treat once you know!

A

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