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Ok, thanks for looking. I'm sure with detail I provide you may be able to be more precise in your help than I can think of. First, I HAVE used this site for help, looked at replies to others etc, but pleeeease try :thumbsup:

Ok, 1.6 1994 'm' carina E GS.

I had injectors done 6 weeks ago, and car ran fine for a week!

Now, I'ts up to its old tricks.

Things you need to know to help me:

Car misses after so many miles, usually 10-15

Engine light comes on sometimes, not always.

Using this site I made it flash error code 21 (02sensor/ignition etc)

One new injector, 3 others sonically cleaned, and fully functioning.

New plugs, albeit not platinum tipped (is that not just for extended 5 yr life?) They are Bosch super 4's. Good plugs.

Changed fuel filter, and this made it run ok for 3 days (release of pressure??) although may be a red herring.

New dissy and rotor arm.

Engine light always off next morning.

Runs great when cold.

No noticable coolant leakage (although may be airlocked as when driving if i turn heater to hot temp dips to low and then Re-warms up, but gets to nice hot temp on heater)

When its playing up it feels like I'm being 'pushed backwards' on M6, then it suddenly roars back off again. Also when playing up it idles like a dog, then recovers, then idles bad again. Always always fine when cool.

Im thinking HT lead with error 21 (ignition)--Is 02 sensor on 1.6, or just 1.8 and over??? If on 1.6, would it be intermittent and cause missing? I don't think so. I have cleaned HT leads, but they do appear old/grazed. Not been dark enough for me to see any arcing at night when I have looked.

So, I guessed HT leads, poss fuel pump? I don't know, and I will be grateful for any ideas, as I just got a Haynes Manual as I'm poor till end of month

:rolleyes:

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I don't understand your description of the of the 'possible air-lock' and the associated syptoms. Can you explain a little more clearly.

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Hi sorry. The air thingy I mentioned is just when driving, if heater is set to cold and I turn it to hot, the temp gauge drops to very cold, then warms up again in about 4 mins. This may be normal, but i dont think so. The main issue is when car is hot, it misses badly. Then engine light may or may not come on-when it does I get code 21. Some days I can get to work-18 miles and have no trouble, others I can do half that and it starts playing up.

As I said, it DID run ok when I changed fuel filter for 3 days, and it did run ok when I had injectors done-for 3 days.

I figured HT leads, which may indicate code 21?

I'm more curious about this 02 sensor-code 21 relates to this also, but would it make car miss?

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That is not normal. The ECU - oxygen sensor govern the fuel mix. Their settings are different (obviously) when the car is cold. Or more accurately when the Temp Sensor is telling the ECU that the engine is cold.

I think your problems are linked to the coolant temp sensor.

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Thanks for reply. The car heater gets nice and warm, never overheats etc, does that not show coolant temp sender is ok? Oh, would the sensor being duff mean it would fool ECU into making car miss like it does? If so, I can sort that-also, would that possibly produce an error 21? Thanks, Tony

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Hi again. Since I dont get paid for a week, just went tinkering. Sorry for being dumb...Did you mean engine temp sensor, or coolant temp sensor..or is that the same thing? I really should read manual properly..

Anyhow, I have done the further test outlined in haynes, ie driven the car with diagnosis pins in place, and got home and re-tested error codes-still a 21, which in the further test outlines purely 02 sensor..

But, I have now disconnected engine temp sensor to try pinpoint it as duff...car briefly shows engine light for 2 secs, then stays off...Unfortunately not been able to get it to go wrong (or fortunately?) as not at work till tomo...Car runs crap for 2 or 3 secs until I presume ECU kicks in its backups, then fine.........

Opps, going on....question is......Will I be ok to drive the 20 miles to work with engine temp sensor unclipped? Any damage possible I mean? Its a short M6 hop and thats when I experience the trouble..I need to see if the trouble stops with it unclipped thus I know it's the sensor at fault..

Hope this logic is not flawed...If it does not play up, I'll connect it on way back from work to avoid potential damage, then replace it...

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Hi,

What I have understood is that the code21 means that the o2 sensor in the exhaust is faulty. That sensor tells the computer in the car how much fuel is needed for a good combustion. If that sensor is faulty the computer can't give the right amount of fuel and the car will be misfiring. I believe that you have a 1.6 lean-burn engine and those engines need the Toyota sensor. Most other engines will be happy with any sensor, but not the leanburn ones.

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Thanks for reply. I have now driven the car with engine temp sensor unclipped....it was fine on way to work, but on way back it did miss a bit...it idled better than with it on anyhow. And it was no way as bad as with it clipped on. Guess it will be worth changing this sensor first....Oh, yes, I had NO warning light come on whilst driving with it unclipped. Conclusive?

Just a thought too, is it not possible to clean (attempt to) these dreaded 02 sensors?

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I don't know if you can clean the o2 sensors, but I don't think so.

Why don't you remove the engine tempsensor and test it in a glass of water. The resistance should be like this.

20 degrees C 2-3 k ohms

40 degrees C 0.9-1.3 k ohms

80 degrees C 0.2-0.4 k ohms.

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Thanks man. Not test it 'cos its only 11 quid new....Here is a thing, used 24/7 spares for 02 sensor (never know) and in 10 mins I got 2 replies-one 70 quid (1 months warranty/delivered), other 80 quid (3 months warrantydelivered) then I got a call from breakers in Birmingham who has 3, sale price 40 quid delivered...Now not so bad thoughts in my head :thumbsup:

I'll be changing temp sensor soon as I get a day off work (not likely :censor: ) and I'll let you know.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I give up. I changed o2 sensor, thermostat, fan temp sender, engine temp sensor and HT leads.....now it idles great when cold-much better, but alas 1 day later, on M6 it started to miss again...not as bad mind. Anyone got a crusher?

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Have you checked the injectors? If one of those are faulty the engine will get wrong amount of fuel and then the ECU will get wrong signal from the O2 sensor because the air/fuel mix is wrong. Then the ECU might believe it is a faulty O2 sensor (error code 21).

On the 1.8 engine (7A-FE) it is mostly the no 3 injector that will be the faulty one. I don't know why, but that is the most common to change when you read other toyota forums on the internet.

Oops, I saw that you had changed one and cleaned the others.

Did you buy a new O2 sensor or an old one?

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...
could it possibly be rubbish in the fuel tank,as you said it was ok for 3 days after changing fuel filter??

Hi all. LOL, months down line and still the same. Prob not rubbish in tank, as 'surely' that would affect cold performance? Anyhow, I just ordered 4 used injectors PLUS rail combined for 50 quid incl VAT delivered. Bargain I spotted. Comes off of a car with 40k, just written off, no prior eng probs. I am now looking back to injector....maybe when I had 'em sonically cleaned they ripped me off-who knows. Car still misses when driven on MWay after 10 miles or so. No orange light after changing 02 sensor BTW.Losing lots coolant now, but have just checked and radiator seems to be made of paper mache!! Got a new one being delivered-It's fair to say it's goosed.

Got a Haynes manual, is it grief stricken changing injectors or dead simple? The changing of RAD I can bodge thru no worries, as I have a knack for 'unbolting' things.

Should I use the new rail supplied too? Or first do the 'pull the wires' check on injectors to see if I can find fault and thus have spares? Or as I trust the seller just go the whole way and change the lot (4 injectors and rail).

Thanks for any tips,

Tony

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Oh just one thing-is it ESSENTIAL to change the 'o' rings on replacing injectors like Haynes says? Just need to know as if it is right I will need to get some. Is so, anyone know where to get 'em online? Or is it main dealer job? Cheers.

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Oh just one thing-is it ESSENTIAL to change the 'o' rings on replacing injectors like Haynes says? Just need to know as if it is right I will need to get some. Is so, anyone know where to get 'em online? Or is it main dealer job? Cheers.

it sounds like a number of problems to me, carina's are well known for their only o2 sensor to go wrong, and they dont come cheap at 250 a throw. have you checked your thermostat? that releases the coolant when the the temp reaches 80.c hence giving you warm air into the cabin. also try the primary coil pack, it sends a spark through the dizzy and then to your cylinders. these could be possible and likely faults.

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  • 1 month later...
Oh just one thing-is it ESSENTIAL to change the 'o' rings on replacing injectors like Haynes says? Just need to know as if it is right I will need to get some. Is so, anyone know where to get 'em online? Or is it main dealer job? Cheers.

it sounds like a number of problems to me, carina's are well known for their only o2 sensor to go wrong, and they dont come cheap at 250 a throw. have you checked your thermostat? that releases the coolant when the the temp reaches 80.c hence giving you warm air into the cabin. also try the primary coil pack, it sends a spark through the dizzy and then to your cylinders. these could be possible and likely faults.

I would bet it is your injectors, if you replace them with second hand injectors there is possibility that the replacement injector may fail.

It has all the symptoms of the injectors, (Are they the bad BLUE type?)

Phil.

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  • 2 weeks later...
could it possibly be rubbish in the fuel tank,as you said it was ok for 3 days after changing fuel filter??

Hi all. LOL, months down line and still the same. Prob not rubbish in tank, as 'surely' that would affect cold performance? Anyhow, I just ordered 4 used injectors PLUS rail combined for 50 quid incl VAT delivered. Bargain I spotted. Comes off of a car with 40k, just written off, no prior eng probs. I am now looking back to injector....maybe when I had 'em sonically cleaned they ripped me off-who knows. Car still misses when driven on MWay after 10 miles or so. No orange light after changing 02 sensor BTW.Losing lots coolant now, but have just checked and radiator seems to be made of paper mache!! Got a new one being delivered-It's fair to say it's goosed.

Got a Haynes manual, is it grief stricken changing injectors or dead simple? The changing of RAD I can bodge thru no worries, as I have a knack for 'unbolting' things.

Should I use the new rail supplied too? Or first do the 'pull the wires' check on injectors to see if I can find fault and thus have spares? Or as I trust the seller just go the whole way and change the lot (4 injectors and rail).

Thanks for any tips,

Tony

Hi, I had a similar problem and changed the injectors on my Carina 1.6. You will need to remove the fuel supply from the injector rail first (keep a rag handy to soak up the petrol you spill. Hot engines and petrol isn't a good mix outside of the engine). There are three bolts behind the injectors that hold the rail in position. Take these out and the rail with the injectors will lift out. You may need to move the throttle cable out of the way as well as a couple of small hoses. There are two seals on each injector, they should come out when you remove everything and if they are ok you can use them again. It should only take about twenty minutes. I did a resistance check on the new injectors I bought and as they were all the same I fitted the lot (mine all read 13.9).

Good luck

Metts

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