The Curse Of Cylinder 3

[Big Bad John]

John. Yorkshire UK. 1997 1.8i Carina E automatic.

It would seem I am amongst fellow sufferers of the damned cylinder 3 on our Carina's.

Mine started to falter around Christmas time, and I could live with that for a few months. Who can afford car repairs straight after Christmas? Not me. Anyway, it got worse and worse. Ok for the first few miles then cough, splutter, no power. Same old story.

So two months ago I get to take it to my trust local garage. Told them the symptoms 'ok, fine'. 4 spark plugs, 4 HT leads, a compressor cap and £125 later I pick it up and the problem is even worse than before. "Guys, did you even test the car afterwards?" "Yeah we drove it round the block, it was fine". "Well drive it now". "Oh... *****".

The main mechanic has his head under the bonnet looking confused. As the engine is running and idling and tripping up over itself, he pulls off the leads that sit on top of the injectors. "It's your number 3 cylinder that in't working cocker". Said it could be a sticking something or other and pours a bottle of engine flush in and procedes to rev the car to near melting point. Nothing happened. "see how that goes, it could be expensive this, about £400." I drove it home at 3 quarter power, extrememly sad. By the time I got home I noticed the high revving action of the garage has split the exhaust. Great. Now it sounds as crap as it performs. There are guys on mopeds overtaking me and I can't do a damn thing about it.

£400? This is not good, where do I always turn to in times of trouble?

The internet. I find this place. I find other people with the same problem. I feel slightly better.

I go online and download the Haynes manual. What?

I read tales of fuel injection woe. That must be it. Scrappers, online. 24/7 spares, need an injector, £40. Brilliant. It arrives the next morning. Double brilliant. I cast my eye over the Haynes, disconect fuel pump, run the car out of fuel, take fuel rail off, swap BLUE injector number 3, bla bla bla, puts it all back together, say a little prayer....... turn the key.

No, that didn't work either.

What next, what's this 02 sensor all about? Maybe I need to plug the car into Nasa? I go to my local Toyota place in Bradford and enquire how much it would cost for them to plug my poorly car into their super computer that runs diagnostic tests. Ninety five pounds sir. I smile and run for my life. Ninety five quid for them to tell me 'computer says no' problems found? I don't think so. Internet time.

Oh this looks intersting. Take a paper clip and the Diagnostic panel and short out E1 and Te1 (or whatever it was) to save £95. Hey, it works, no faults recorded, a consistent continuing flash. Brill, a small victory. I found that out myself at the cost of 1 paper clip. So in my case, fuel sensor 02 is ok, so it's not that.

Now I read of 'fuel pump filter' cleaning but I don't have my socket set with me at work. I'll give that a go when I get home, but I dont think that's it. Why would it affect just cylinder 3? It would affect them all, surely. But it's worth a shot, as it's free and easy.

The thing that is nigling me now is have I been sold a dodgy used injector?

Is it the wires that fit onto the injector?

Is it what the garage man said, and is some moving part really sticking?

I am going to find out what is causing this common problem and I will report back. I don't like to be beat by a machine.

Watch this space for the next thrilling chapter of 'The Curse of Cylinder 3'.

[jarys]

John. Yorkshire UK. 1997 1.8i Carina E automatic.

It would seem I am amongst fellow sufferers of the damned cylinder 3 on our Carina's.

Mine started to falter around Christmas time, and I could live with that for a few months. Who can afford car repairs straight after Christmas? Not me. Anyway, it got worse and worse. Ok for the first few miles then cough, splutter, no power. Same old story.

So two months ago I get to take it to my trust local garage. Told them the symptoms 'ok, fine'. 4 spark plugs, 4 HT leads, a compressor cap and £125 later I pick it up and the problem is even worse than before. "Guys, did you even test the car afterwards?" "Yeah we drove it round the block, it was fine". "Well drive it now". "Oh... *****".

The main mechanic has his head under the bonnet looking confused. As the engine is running and idling and tripping up over itself, he pulls off the leads that sit on top of the injectors. "It's your number 3 cylinder that in't working cocker". Said it could be a sticking something or other and pours a bottle of engine flush in and procedes to rev the car to near melting point. Nothing happened. "see how that goes, it could be expensive this, about £400." I drove it home at 3 quarter power, extrememly sad. By the time I got home I noticed the high revving action of the garage has split the exhaust. Great. Now it sounds as crap as it performs. There are guys on mopeds overtaking me and I can't do a damn thing about it.

£400? This is not good, where do I always turn to in times of trouble?

The internet. I find this place. I find other people with the same problem. I feel slightly better.

I go online and download the Haynes manual. What?

I read tales of fuel injection woe. That must be it. Scrappers, online. 24/7 spares, need an injector, £40. Brilliant. It arrives the next morning. Double brilliant. I cast my eye over the Haynes, disconect fuel pump, run the car out of fuel, take fuel rail off, swap BLUE injector number 3, bla bla bla, puts it all back together, say a little prayer....... turn the key.

No, that didn't work either.

What next, what's this 02 sensor all about? Maybe I need to plug the car into Nasa? I go to my local Toyota place in Bradford and enquire how much it would cost for them to plug my poorly car into their super computer that runs diagnostic tests. Ninety five pounds sir. I smile and run for my life. Ninety five quid for them to tell me 'computer says no' problems found? I don't think so. Internet time.

Oh this looks intersting. Take a paper clip and the Diagnostic panel and short out E1 and Te1 (or whatever it was) to save £95. Hey, it works, no faults recorded, a consistent continuing flash. Brill, a small victory. I found that out myself at the cost of 1 paper clip. So in my case, fuel sensor 02 is ok, so it's not that.

Now I read of 'fuel pump filter' cleaning but I don't have my socket set with me at work. I'll give that a go when I get home, but I dont think that's it. Why would it affect just cylinder 3? It would affect them all, surely. But it's worth a shot, as it's free and easy.

The thing that is nigling me now is have I been sold a dodgy used injector?

Is it the wires that fit onto the injector?

Is it what the garage man said, and is some moving part really sticking?

I am going to find out what is causing this common problem and I will report back. I don't like to be beat by a machine.

Watch this space for the next thrilling chapter of 'The Curse of Cylinder 3'.

[jarys]

Hi - a friend suggested to me that might usually be cylinder 3 because that one gets the least air circulation round it within the engine compartment.

Looking forward to reading the next instalment of the Curse of Cylinder 3. Will let you know when I resolve my similar problem!

[carve1]

Mechanics mostly replace stuff rather than diagnose. I've been through the same issue as you have with my brother's Carina E which he bought for E1000 from some guy who'd obviously given up after spark plugs, HT leads and distributor.

I replaced the fuel filter first, which by the way is very evil and I'm not enthused about doing that again! I wrote a long diatribe about it on this board - just below...

If your car runs ok at all, the fuel filter will likely be ok.

I got some hints from this board about the injectors and replacing them. Thank you to whoever mentioned "Ignore the haynes manual about disconnecting the fuel rail fuel input line." Saved me a lot of trouble - it's on a flexible hose so it's obvious you shouldn't bother...

I got two blue injectors from eBay (of all places - I was really lucky) and set about testing. Removed injector leads. Checked resistance of all four injectors - 14, 14, 14, 78. Cool. Must be #4. Just in case also checked voltages at the injector leads - well, the 12V line anyway. The injectors are fired by a switch to GND. A test doesn't prove the wires aren't faulty, but does make it less likely!

Replaced number 4, start car. Slightly better but still awful. Let car warm up until it's really awful. Check injectors by pulling and replacing each lead in turn while engine running. #4, #3, #2 make the car falter badly. #1 makes no difference. Hmmmmmm!

Stop car and recheck resistances: infinity, 14, 14, 14. OK! The injector only fails when it gets hot! I'll be! Replaced #1. Perfect. Problem solved.

So it's not always number 3. I had two faulty injectors on #1 and #4....

Good luck!

Conor.

[jarys]

That's interesting but do you know if it's possible to test the injectors and identify the faulty one(s) without running the engine until it's hot .(see earler my topic below )

[Big Bad John]

UPDATE!!!

Due to extreme lazyness I've ended up getting used to just driving around on 3 cylinders. But about a month ago I figured i'd give it another shot. I've already replaced fuel injector 3 but it made no difference.

November came round and I went on eBay and looked for fuel injectors, and I got quite a bargain. 4 fuel injectors and a fuel rail for £6. Thank you.

So last week I took one of these new (used) fuel injectors, swapped it out with the old one and tried it. IT STILL DIDN'T WORK. I was about to set fire to the car when I thought, I know the garage only replaced the HT leads about a year ago but just check it. Pulled it off and it had totally burnt out! Went over to the garage and got some new HT leads (because they only sell them as a set of 4) and put the new lead on.

Perfect. My trusty old Carina is back at 100% and it feels good. It feels even better knowing I waited it out and saved a fortune doing it my self, with thanks to the info posted on these forums. Cheers everyone.

[GIDDLEPIN]

Nice to see that perseverance all be it over long period and at your own pace (the best way), has paid of (cheaply I might add)

Well done

Les