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St202 3gse Re-map Ecu And Performance

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Hey!

I own a 6Gen Celica and im considering remapping the ecu, I have a K+N 57 Induction kit, HKS Plugs (still to buy the magnacor leads) de-cat'd and Full stainless mongoose. As far as i know there isnt much more to do to get much more power out of it.

In the near future im going to do get a full service kit, timing belt etc, but install lighter pully's etc, hope that makes a little difference?

But at the moment I wanna remap the ECU, there was a add in the local Auto trader that theres a place that Remaps the ECU for £299 - Does this remap the standard ECU, if so what can I expect, arround 5bhp? Also If I were to buy a non-standard ecu upgrade for arround £300again? does this need remaped itself and what gains would I expect?

Thanks!

PS - Any opinions on performance increases are welcome, want to keep my car for atleast another year maybe 2, before I possibly settle for a GT4, Basically insurance reasons. TA!

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Hi m8

There was a guy (hunterj)over at celica-club that had just a k&n 57i and cat back exhaust, he got a dastek unichip and was setup on the rollers, it made 187bhp with a big difference in low end torque and a nice 13bhp increase at 5k rpm.

he had the face lift model so started with 168bhp, +19bhp isn't to bad, he said the improvement in low and midrange made it all worth while ..

You cant actually remap the stock ecu on these cars, you basically need a piggy back that goes in before the ecu.. or a full aftermarket replacement.

Kev

Edited, increase at 5k was 13bhp not 15bhp

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you could try a fse power boost valve, i'm looking into it and it should give around 15% of your cars power, so the minimum bhp you'll gain is 20-5 bhp on a standard engine, with mods around 25-40 bhp as exhausts give around 10-15 bhp and 5-10 with air filters, do not get a chip as these will kill your engine even though people say they don't they do as they over-ride/trick the ecu into putting more fuel into the engine plus adding more air, an ecu remap is safer and more gains can be expected as this set up is telling the ecu to put more fuel in rarther than tricking it, making the timming vancern or !Removed! to make the spark ealier or later, as for the car mentioned below 168bhp, +19bhp increase isn't true the bhp from the manufactures is measured at the flywheel, so it 168 bhp at the flywheel and not the wheels, you'd expect 150 bhp at the wheels so the cars gained around 37 bhp and not 19 bhp, as for buying a non standard ecu or one off someone who's had their ecu chipped even though its the same car/engine it'll be different to your own car, it might make the car hunt ect... so it'll need setting up, hope this helps

P.S if you chip your car you'll need to tell the insurance, where's remapping the original they would find out unless the ecu is tested against a standard one

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Japracer

You cant actually remap the stock ecu on these cars, you basically need a piggy back that goes in before the ecu..

Kev

piggy backs are alot safer than they used to be, the Dastek Unichip is not a favourate of mine as i know people that used to work for them and they said that the chip itself was unstable and this was proven in a friends car where the chip itself overheated!

Greddy do what is considered to be the best piggy back available by alot of tuners, as much as they prefer to work with stand alones, it allows you to control timing and fueling with the one unit where as alot of products on the market would only control the fueling. not sure what gains you can expect from a N/A car but if your willing to take this route then feel free to ask questions and i'll try my best to answer them

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you could try a fse power boost valve, i'm looking into it and it should give around 15% of your cars power, so the minimum bhp you'll gain is 20-5 bhp on a standard engine, with mods around 25-40 bhp as exhausts give around 10-15 bhp and 5-10 with air filters, do not get a chip as these will kill your engine even though people say they don't they do as they over-ride/trick the ecu into putting more fuel into the engine plus adding more air, an ecu remap is safer and more gains can be expected as this set up is telling the ecu to put more fuel in rarther than tricking it, making the timming vancern or !Removed! to make the spark ealier or later, as for the car mentioned below 168bhp, +19bhp increase isn't true the bhp from the manufactures is measured at the flywheel, so it 168 bhp at the flywheel and not the wheels, you'd expect 150 bhp at the wheels so the cars gained around 37 bhp and not 19 bhp, as for buying a non standard ecu or one off someone who's had their ecu chipped even though its the same car/engine it'll be different to your own car, it might make the car hunt ect... so it'll need setting up, hope this helps

P.S if you chip your car you'll need to tell the insurance, where's remapping the original they would find out unless the ecu is tested against a standard one

For a start if you have took the engine to the limit be it na or turbo that's the only way your going to gain anything from a fse boost valve, the fse is just a fancy fuel pressure regulator, if you cant get the extra air into the combustion chambers then adding an fse to pump more fuel in is a waste of money, the only time it would be of any use if the car wasn't highly modded to justify such a mod was if the stock pressure regulator was faulty as the fse would be cheaper that the Toyota one.

Expect to gain 10bhp or there abouts max with an exhaust and intake unless you have a turbo or supercharger,

You really sound like a max power reader when you start taking every mods advertised power increase and adding them all up , if it was that easy don't you think everyone would be running around with 30-40bhp extra for little outlay?? its just doest work like that in the real world mate , start doing some research before you start sprouting crap like that, im surprised this has went days without any one's input..

How can you say adding a chip causes problems and an ecu remap doesn't?? there both the same at the end of the day , and i will repeat myself YOU CANT REMAP THE STANDARD ECU ON THESE CARS, PIGGY BACKS OR FULL AFTER MARKET REPLACEMENTS ARE THE ONLY OPTION. well going by you a chip adds more air so wouldn't that be a good thing as more air = power?? but in the real world no chip on this earth can physically add more air only relieving restriction on the intake or adding positive pressure via a turbo or super charger can do this, again this looks like you don't know what your talking about .

In what bit in my post did i mention i was talking about wheel horse power?? 168bhp is the stock flywheel bhp on the uk face lift model (sorry didn't include that info in my original post)and thats what the guys dyno figures were based on.

If you get a chip its common practice and sense to get it setup when fitted..

I'm sorry if this offends you japracer but that whole post just made you sound like a 16 year old that reads max power

Here is the post on celica club from the guy, please note that some of the dyno picture no longer work..

http://www.celica-club.co.uk/forum/index.p...c=29196&hl=

Kev

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GTForbes never heard of any reliability issue with the dastek unichip, i supose its the good old case of you get what you pay for lol

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so true Kev, i mean for any N/A car you really need to go old skool and get machine work done, even if it's just getting the engine stripped and re-built you'll find some extra power released(it would probably put you back up to standard figures)

then you could port and polish the head with bigger vavles, higher profile cams etc etc..... then you would need some sort of re-map to support mods as they are designed to get more air into the engine so will need more fuel and timing adjustments

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Thanks for the input guys, appreciated!

Gives me a few things to ponder over! - Im planning to get a Four branch manifold to complete my exhaust system, straight through moongoose exhaust (got the seperate section for Mot, HANDY!!!) ontop of my current mods.

Im going to do a little bit of research into the dansek chip and the greddy piggyback, if there isnt much of a price difference perhaps the choice picks itself :) - As far as the Power boost valve goes, I think I would be happy with 10bhp for £80, brand new one on ebay (genuine), that would be a fair tradeoff? Although mentioned to a few of my mates and some think that it might be worthwhile getting a AEM (or oem?) Fuel rail upgrade, would this be essential or would the standard be just as efficient? running a little rich is apparently the general idea...not too rich I hope, as I dont want half the tank to drip out my exhaust lol!

The st202 is arround 175bhp standard, Id like to see arround 210, that would be a really nice figure to reach, although I hope not too ambitious! i plan to do a few service kit to the car so will try and upgrade pullys etc where I can. My general train of thought is, not wasting 100s for a 1 or 2 bhp and I understand that without a turbo, I would see huge increases in BHP with single mods, but rounded figures of 5-15 or so for maybe 50-200 generally would be nice, maybe 1 or 2 bigger upgrades costin up to 4-600 would be considered. The cars basically a project over the next year or 2 (pushing it lol) want to get its potential in the meantime, within reasonable justification £.

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you won gets much from a 4 branch, have you looked at the standard manifold?? its already very good..

that fse isn't going to give you 10bhp, it doesn't give any increase in hp but does improve throttle response a little , as i said above its only a fancy name for fuel pressure regulator, only worth it your standard one is %$(ed or if you go for hardcore mods ie: turbo or supercharger.

Power Boost Valves

There's only one name in the market for Power Boost Valves and that's FSE Glencoe. Contrary to popular belief these do not increase the power of your car but they do usually give you better throttle response. A Power Boost Valve is a replacement for the fuel pressure regulator in the fuel line which is found in the return fuel line to the fuel tank, so it is actually a back-pressure regulator. This often confuses people when fitting them because its more natural to think of controlling the pressure downstream of something than upstream. What the Boost Valve does is allow the pressure in the fuel rail to recover more quickly to the required pressure when a sudden demand is made upon it when you put your foot down. FSE quote a figure of 1.7 times faster than standard. If you know what you are doing you can adjust the fuel line pressure with the Boost Valve - there is a screw in the top and you can purchase a fuel pressure gauge that attaches to the side of the valve. Its kind of like playing around with jet sizes in a carburettor. We must point out though that you really do need to know what you are doing if you are going to adjust the fuel pressure. If you make it too low, the engine will run lean and this can cause things to melt such as pistons. Boost Valves come pre-set at the correct pressure for each engine.

210bhp on the 3s-ge is going to cost you a nice sum of penny's m8, to get anywhere need it you it would be a good idea to change some of the service items first ie: dizzy cap. rotor arm, leads and if the cars over 100k then changing the lambda would be a good idea, now your onto the goodys :D, mods i would go for would be, exhaust, decat (best mod iv bought) , intake (with plenty of cold air) halo spark plugs, silkolene pro s synthetic Oil, power deck spacer (meant to give 10bhp), some info here then get some sort of piggy back dastek or greddy then get it all setup on the rollers, i recon that lot on a strong engine should see you around 195bhp 200 if your very lucky, after that your into the opening the engine up like GTForbes said..

sell the car and get an ss3 with the beams fitted , 200bhp standard and the potential for more :D

good luck m8

Kev

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you could try a fse power boost valve, i'm looking into it and it should give around 15% of your cars power, so the minimum bhp you'll gain is 20-5 bhp on a standard engine, with mods around 25-40 bhp as exhausts give around 10-15 bhp and 5-10 with air filters, do not get a chip as these will kill your engine even though people say they don't they do as they over-ride/trick the ecu into putting more fuel into the engine plus adding more air, an ecu remap is safer and more gains can be expected as this set up is telling the ecu to put more fuel in rarther than tricking it, making the timming vancern or !Removed! to make the spark ealier or later, as for the car mentioned below 168bhp, +19bhp increase isn't true the bhp from the manufactures is measured at the flywheel, so it 168 bhp at the flywheel and not the wheels, you'd expect 150 bhp at the wheels so the cars gained around 37 bhp and not 19 bhp, as for buying a non standard ecu or one off someone who's had their ecu chipped even though its the same car/engine it'll be different to your own car, it might make the car hunt ect... so it'll need setting up, hope this helps

P.S if you chip your car you'll need to tell the insurance, where's remapping the original they would find out unless the ecu is tested against a standard one

For a start if you have took the engine to the limit be it na or turbo that's the only way your going to gain anything from a fse boost valve, the fse is just a fancy fuel pressure regulator, if you cant get the extra air into the combustion chambers then adding an fse to pump more fuel in is a waste of money, the only time it would be of any use if the car wasn't highly modded to justify such a mod was if the stock pressure regulator was faulty as the fse would be cheaper that the Toyota one.

Expect to gain 10bhp or there abouts max with an exhaust and intake unless you have a turbo or supercharger,

You really sound like a max power reader when you start taking every mods advertised power increase and adding them all up , if it was that easy don't you think everyone would be running around with 30-40bhp extra for little outlay?? its just doest work like that in the real world mate , start doing some research before you start sprouting crap like that, im surprised this has went days without any one's input..

How can you say adding a chip causes problems and an ecu remap doesn't?? there both the same at the end of the day , and i will repeat myself YOU CANT REMAP THE STANDARD ECU ON THESE CARS, PIGGY BACKS OR FULL AFTER MARKET REPLACEMENTS ARE THE ONLY OPTION. well going by you a chip adds more air so wouldn't that be a good thing as more air = power?? but in the real world no chip on this earth can physically add more air only relieving restriction on the intake or adding positive pressure via a turbo or super charger can do this, again this looks like you don't know what your talking about .

In what bit in my post did i mention i was talking about wheel horse power?? 168bhp is the stock flywheel bhp on the uk face lift model (sorry didn't include that info in my original post)and thats what the guys dyno figures were based on.

If you get a chip its common practice and sense to get it setup when fitted..

I'm sorry if this offends you japracer but that whole post just made you sound like a 16 year old that reads max power

Here is the post on celica club from the guy, please note that some of the dyno picture no longer work..

http://www.celica-club.co.uk/forum/index.p...c=29196&hl=

Kev

One thing is I don't read max power mags as there a waste of money and time, there for pure boy racer wannabies

A fse boost valve doesn't pump more fuel in it restricts the amount of fuel that return to the fuel tank, that = more fuel going through the injectors, and more fuel for the other injectors,

Everyone I know who's had there car chipped it's caused problem to the engine while everyone I know who had a remap has had no problems

and the bhp results are an average of what some mods will give you and are only a guid line of what you would expect to achieve, and you would'nt gain much from having a turbo (standard) on you'r car unless it was tuned eg dumpvalve, intercooler and so on

"YOU CANT REMAP THE STANDARD ECU ON THESE CARS, PIGGY BACKS OR FULL AFTER MARKET REPLACEMENTS ARE THE ONLY OPTION. well going by you a chip adds more air so wouldn't that be a good thing as more air = power?? but in the real world no chip on this earth can physically add more air" I didnt say anything about remapping the standard ecu?????????????????? and I didn't say anything about the chips phisically adding more air?????????????????

READ WHAT I SAID

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A fse boost valve doesn't pump more fuel in it restricts the amount of fuel that return to the fuel tank, that = more fuel going through the injectors, and more fuel for the other injectors

thats a bit of a contradiction is it not, so if it doesn't pump more fuel in where is that restricted fuel going?? wait a min you just said more fuel is going to go through the injectors because the excess that the engine doesn't needs isn't getting returned back to the fuel tank , so doesn't that mean theres more fuel getting pumped through them????

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you won gets much from a 4 branch, have you looked at the standard manifold?? its already very good..

I'll second that. I bought a FGK 4 Branch (Fujitsubo) at great cost, and my heart sank when i removed the standard manifold, they are virtually identical, albeit apart from the section that changes from 4-2-1 is over a greater distance on the FGK than on the standard one. Apart from a little extra torque it did naf all really, oh yes it sounds nice but it's not worth it. No wonder they are a pain to find (the only 2 companies that still produce manifolds fot the ST202 are FGK and HKS, that i could find anyway).

As for FSE's, I don't rate them, Never have, never will. If you want a uprated fuel regulator get a Sard or such like, but even then you'd be better off with a piggyback, Greddy E-Manages are good, or a Apexi SAFC and set-up professionally, or a stand alone ECU.

But stand alone ecu's are a bit over kill really unless your talking major work being done, such as Cam's, Inlet/Throttle body inlargement or increased flow, Ported Head, Forged internals, larger injectors/fuel pump, Stroker kit / Bored out block, Quad Throttles (Now, that would be interesting) With all these things a Uprated exhaust manifold might yeald more improvments. Unless your going down that large and expensive route get yourself a E-Manage or a SAFC if you want to make the most out of your mods, forget the FSE.

As for the Chips, don't bother.... if you really, really want one, save yourself some money and buy a Ebay special Resistor, ultimatly the "Super Chips" and such like are just fancy versions of these resistors. That is if you feel so inclined, i personally am not. Waste of money.

One Further Note, Don't bother with the magnecors, Not worth it unless you do further, more intensive work to the ignition. The Best HT Leads for the Celica are the Standard one's. I put the Red 8.5mm Magnecors on my GT, in the end i changed them back to standard and i honestly feel the standards are better. If you really want a set, you can have my Magnecors, for the cost of the postage.

Tony

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Interesting thread, agree with some, disagree with some too.

my 2p:

FSE is just an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, handy for tweaking a bit more fuel in there to supplement mods. If the pressure is increased, more fuel is squirted in for the same duration. I really cannot see a gain from just this. The PBV bit has always baffled me to be honest, cant see how it would add power.

Superchips for the GE arent just a resistor. They remap your ignition, and are remappable- a piggyback for your spark.

I think the Greddy emanage blue will tweak your fuel and spark map, but an apexi S-AFC will only tweak your fuel map.

Magnecour leads- I have the 5mm leads and think the build quality is crap, i'll be going back to MrT ones next time.

210 should be do able on a rev3 3S-ge without FI. A nice port job, higher CR, lumpier cams etc should see that figure. A friend I know has a rev3 GE in his reynard F3, its restricted to standard cams and carbs, and it punches out around the 200 mark. With mapped FI and lumpy cams i'd bet it will exceed that figure.

What you have to think is whether these methods would be as cheap as trading for a GT4 (if you like FI, 4WD and GT4's of course).

My personal opinion is that the BEAMS unit is probarly harder to tune than the rev3 GE. Just because of the VVTi really, so maybe it would be more difficult to tune? I know many modified 2.0 zetec ST170 engines have had their VCT locked off for this reason. I don't know though, maybe there are easy ways around this these days :)

feel free to ignore above ;)

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210 should be do able on a rev3 3S-ge without FI. A nice port job, higher CR, lumpier cams etc should see that figure. A friend I know has a rev3 GE in his reynard F3, its restricted to standard cams and carbs, and it punches out around the 200 mark. With mapped FI and lumpy cams i'd bet it will exceed that figure.

You don't need Forced induction to go over 210BHP. You just need a large wallet........ The General rule of thumb is that if the engine has 4 valves per cylinder you can increase the power 100BHP per Liter capacity (Obviously not all engines are the same, some will be able to produce more, some less). So The ST202 has 168-175BHP (roughly!), out of the 2 litre engine you could (Please note i said could, not Would!) fesably push 375BHP out of it, Even More if you increase displacement.

As for the SAFC, Yes it can only control fueling, i never said it could do anything but Fueling.

At the End of the day, tuning N/A is much more expensive than tuning a Forced Induction engine, with FI all you need is a Electronic boost controller.... Or even a bleed valve and then up the boost, But you can tune N/A to high levels if you have the money to do so.

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I wasn't replying to just you mate, it was a general reply to the thread in general. The figure 210 was mentioned, I just said its possible, not its limit. The SAFC was mentioned in the same way as an emanage system, so just letting the masses know that the greddy unit caters for jolt as well as squirt.

Sorry if you've took the hump with me for some weird reason.

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Perhaps then, an uprated Inlet manifold, uprated throttlebodys along with the FSE boost valve, more air + more fuel would raise the bhp noticably? ...maybe even adding a new fuel rod + pumps if needed.

Bolt on replacements without taking out the engine would be off prefference, few hundred quid at a time upgrades with reasonably priced fitting charges. Some of the discussed upgrades in the post ontop of the current mods and then a Piggyback ecu, sounds good I think :)

How much are you talking to port and polish the heads and bore it out to perhaps a 2.1ltr, anyone any experience with any of that?

Just learning myself so be gentle :D - some nice reading here!

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Perhaps then, an uprated Inlet manifold, uprated throttlebodys along with the FSE boost valve, more air + more fuel would raise the bhp noticably? ...maybe even adding a new fuel rod + pumps if needed.

Bolt on replacements without taking out the engine would be off prefference, few hundred quid at a time upgrades with reasonably priced fitting charges. Some of the discussed upgrades in the post ontop of the current mods and then a Piggyback ecu, sounds good I think :)

How much are you talking to port and polish the heads and bore it out to perhaps a 2.1ltr, anyone any experience with any of that?

Just learning myself so be gentle :D - some nice reading here!

Hi Mate,

Right, Starting with the inlet manifold, this would be quite expensive. Basically you would have to have one custom made, as no one makes a specific Inlet for the ST202, but with the custom mani, you then could fit pretty much any throttle body you wanted, although i would'nt go to too much bigger than standard, Maybe a Supra / ST205 GT4 etc.

The problem is, it would be an engine out job, as the inlet mani's bolts are nigh on impossible to get to as the engine is sloping backwards in the engine bay, plus all the other ancillaries are in the way, plus the inlet leterally wraps around from the back of the engine to the top, in a almost semi-circular fashion. I've got some pictures of my spare engine before/during strip down and rebuild, i'll try and find them and post them to show you what i mean. In terms of price, you'll proberbly be looking at something in the region of £1000+ Minimum (i'm quoteing this from my Custom Made Inlet for my GT4 Which cost £750, but N/A is harder to design for)

The other way to go would be ITB's (Quad Throttle Bodies) Such as this -

bernard-engine-big.jpg

That is a 3S-GE with a Custom Made Quad Throttle (4x40mm Throttle Bodies), but your talking lots of £££££.

As for Displacment, You can go any number of ways, -

1. Pistons, using HKS 86mm Pistons as an example, increases displacment to 2047cc and thats just using the same bore size (86mm) you can co upto at least 87mm which should raise displacment a fair bit

2. Stroker kit, This increases the stroke of the engine (Hence the Name :rolleyes: ) to 2.2ltr, combined with the pistons above could see 2300+ increase in displacment.

3. You could also drop the 2.2ltr 5S-FE block in with your head, and create a 5S-GE (This is what i'm working towards with my GT4, a 2.4ltr 5S-GTE Engine) the thing is, you need to find the right block to match your head though.

Ultimatly though, How much do you want to increase power to, 200bhp... 250bhp.... 300bhp?

Regardless of the ultimate target you want, i'd say -

1. Change Dizzy, HT Leads (Stnadard Toyota are the best, albeit more expensive), Sparkplugs, Rotor Arm, Oil, Oil Filter etc etc

2. Get a decent exhaust (Mongoose tend to be good, HKS/Blitz are Very Good, If you can get hold of one the Fujitsubo, that would be what i'd go for, You get the Power increase but it's only loud after about 4500-5000k so you don't have to worry at MOT time on Noise Levels, Or actually the HKS Silent Power Systems are pretty much the same) Remember, You don't need a loud exhaust for power.

3. Then De-Cat (Keep the cat though, for MOT Time)

4. Then filter, The choice is yours, I personally have got the K&N Panel Filter in Mine, then again we all like the induction sound from a filter don't we

5. Increase Timing (A Little) + Make sure you Use V-Power if you do this.

6. SAFC Fuel Computer - Set-up Correctly (Proberbly best to do this at the same time as the timing)

Tony

I wasn't replying to just you mate, it was a general reply to the thread in general. The figure 210 was mentioned, I just said its possible, not its limit. The SAFC was mentioned in the same way as an emanage system, so just letting the masses know that the greddy unit caters for jolt as well as squirt.

Sorry if you've took the hump with me for some weird reason.

Sorry mate, did'nt mean to be as agressive as i was. I looked back to my original post where i mentioned the SAFC, i did'nt explain what i meant to say how i wanted to say it, If that makes any sense :unsure:

Tony

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Tony- no worries matey, my post looks a little harsh too and wasn't meant to be a pop at you or anything- sorry if it reads like that! I've done it in the past, written stuff where it appears to be off hand when it wasn't meant to be, and read other folks posts and took it the wrong way :( so apologies.......

Nice info there B) and that RWD rev 2 powered car- what is it? an earlier RWD celica? any links?

As for the throttle body, to fit anything significantly larger to the rev2 plenum (gen5) won't work properly I don't think, as its a very narrow chamber- the rev 3 I have no idea as I've never played with one! I've got a beams red top (67mm bore) in the garage, but I'm not sure how much bigger this is than the standard rev3 (gen6) one.

Throttle bodies (or ITB's) is what i'd really love B) There is a cheaper way of doing it by using motorbike throttle bodies, which are avaliable from bike breakers all over the place for £75+ ish, or hold out for that ebay bargain. As tony says that manifold will be a total bee-hatch to get fabricated because of the canted over engine :( but they can be mounted in a "downdraught" position (if at all possible because of the space issue) because they have no fuel. The thing with doing it this way is everything will have to be home brewed to accept them, and I believe they can be a bit "snappy" at small throttle openings.

Interesting stuff about the CC options, I've never really thought about that before- Ta for the info :) there is a thread over on celicatech.com for the work needed to fit a 3SGE head to a 5SFE block.

One thing I will ask- a bit off topic- but in what way is the compression lowered in the GTE? IE is it a shorter rod, shorter distance between the piston crown and gudgeon pin, or a combination of the two? I'd like shiny new forgies in there if I ever get round to building a new engine, and as far as I can tell these are not avaliable off the shelf for the GE- from the "usual suspects" anyway.

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Dan_O, Cheers mate.

That RWD car is a AE86 Corolla, it's pretty awesome. The link is Clicky, they do like the corolla's.

Good comment on the Motorbike Throttles, i overlooked that side of things.

With a custom manifold (On the ST202) i would proberbly stop where the First Plenium is and have the TB side feed like normal, if there is an issue with space for the pipe work for the TB, then you could fabricate a pipework bend to bring the TB forward in the engine bay, near to where the TB is Normally, if you know what i mean.

The differance between the GTE & GE, this is only from memory but the GTE compression Ratio is 8.5:1 (ST185 is differant at 8.8:1) and the GE is 10:1. As for the actual mechanical differances, in terms of pistons, i'm 99% sure the crown is the differance between the two, but i could be wrong.

In terms of finding pistons for the GE, if your having trouble sourcing them, i know you can send the pistons to JE, Ross, Eagle etc and they will make custom pistons for you, based on the standard ones. As for "off the shelf" pistons, i don't know really off hand, there is a company called Accralite who state in the toyota section that they do a ST205 Turbo and a ST205 N/A :unsure: , i think they might mean a ST202 as in the details the Crowns are different. So if they are ST202 pistons, would they be a better match to your ST182 pistons? Might be worth a look......

i dont know if your aware of them, but there is a company called taka kaira who basically sell anything that the major Jap tuning companies still manufacture, again might be worth a look.

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cheers for the link- thats one gorgeous 86 B)

Yeah bike bodies are cheap, and I did look at mounting them as you say by bodging them onto a standard fannymould with the ACIS feed blocked off- but they would be in the way of the plugs then! Fabricating something from scratch is definitely the way forward :)

Ah so it is the pistons- ta for that. When I rip my GE apart i'll get the callipers out and confirm. Maybe GTE rods would be a cheap upgrade then, I have a couple of sets :)

Ta for the piston info mate, much appreciated :)

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Thought this might be of interest to some people....There are too brands, throttle body spacers! - apparently increasing airflow etc....Anyone any idea of the cost it would take to fit these, it says on the site that the engine doesnt need removed etc and would the benifit be well worth it?

This is the only place iv seen improvements for the inlet manifold on a website for the celica.

http://www.andysautosport.com/toyota/1994_.../throttle_body/

oh yeah....

and what do you think of this piggyback from greddy, cheap as chips!!

http://www.andysautosport.com/toyota/1994_...ed00008804.html

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that isnt the fuel and timing controller, that is mearly a system for switching onn and off differant greddy products

GReddy's Multi Switching System (MSS) is a two-channel programmable general output controller. The MSS is cockpit-mounted and wires into a vehicle's ECU harness and/or optional GReddy sensors and the electronic devices you want to control. The MSS can control up to 2 separate electronic devices with the capability of turning on and off nitrous, solenoids, I/C-sprayers, warning lamps and many other electronic devices. Each channel can be programmed to activate through one, two or three parameters such as RPM, speed, temperature, boost or any other analog signal. With GReddy's optional MSS Relay Kit, you can activate fuel pumps, electric fans and other higher drawing items. The multi color display can also monitor the inputted signals for peak-hold and warning values.

what you are looking for is the e-manage or e-manage ultimate for timing and fuel controll

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