Yaris Modified Clutch Judder

[Uptownbob]

Just a few months ago I took delivery of an apparently French built Yaris 1.3 SR. Sadly within a short time there was a really bad clutch judder on take off (definately not carpets) So I visited the local dealer who apparently road tested the car and said cannot find a problem told them worse when cold and when wet? Had to return to dealer with another problem and mentioned juddering clutch to technician stood in dealer carpark who said quite openly that Toyota had major problems with juddering clutches on the old and new shape Yaris models and as a result they have developed a modified clutch he test drove my car and agreed a juddering clutch problem. Returned a few days later modified clutch was fitted and although there is now an intermittent problem it's not perfect but not as bad however I have since inherited major problems once again when cold engaging both second gear and reverse once again more so when cold after sitting overnight. It's as though something is preventing lever from going into gate their is resistence as it crunches into gear. I have returned to garage however once again they claim that they cannot find a problem despite not one but four different test drivers curiously I was advised to log the mileage I'm glad I did because despite not one but four test drives the car had covered barely a mile? Incidently I returned to the dealer because of a loud window rattle they were unable to find that fault either which just frustrates and wears you down. The Toyota owned Cheshire/Greater Manchester dealership informed me that they have trawled their own internal dealer problem system and cannot find any problems with any 2007 Yaris gear engagement problems which is odd because Shamus19 has experienced the exact same problem. I took the vehicle out on Toyota finance have written to Toyota GB twice they responded with a questionaire which I completed then another questionaire followed which was completed then a letter with a password and instructions to go online tp://www.toyota-customerfirst.com/UK (Customer First was this a joke?) recently another letter they advise they cannot intervene as they are just SALES ? and marketing only on verge of dumping car back at dealership and cancelling direct debit. Any ideas as to problem or advice to make positive progress. Please no more questionaires. UptownBob

[techy]

Hi, i have an 06 Yaris T Spirit 1.3 it is still in at the dealer and the gearbox has been out 3 times.

I have had the clutch replaced for juddering and very heavy pedal action.

Mine crunches from 1st to 2nd and will not go into 1st or reverse sometimes.

They have changed the 1st and 2nd syncro rings, and now they tell me that the selector is duff.

So far the car has had the above problems plus :-

Three fanbelts (modified one cured the probs)

New aircon pump (bearings went)

knocking from the front of car (still being fixed)

Badly creaking drivers seat (still not fixed after 3 goes)

And has been damged during the repairs, it must have been off the road for over a month in total

I am at my wits end, and the only solution from Toyota finance is to give me less than the trade value to get rid of me or chose another car and put money to it.

Toyota and the finance people do not give a damm !

I am discusted at this, i have owned about 10 Toyotas, but this will be the last.

Techy

Best of luck to you in getting this sorted

[mickey.j]

uptownbob, greetings.

i was about to place a toplic on this forum asking if any YARIS owners are suffering from clutch judder.when i saw your post,yes we have it as well !!!

my wife has a `07 YARIS 1.3 zinc with 2.300 miles on the clock.and this has a clutch judder when intially moving off from rest.

this problem is not a new one for the YARIS as we traded in a `01 model which also had the dreaded clutch judder,but if i remember right was replaced under a recall by toyota.

i have a few concerns ,did you mangege to have a new clutch fitted or was it a case of ` they all do that sir``. secondly and most worrying is this going to be the statrt of a long battle of words with the mighty MR.T.

i do hope MR.T. is fully aware of this problemm is willing to fix it with out the usual mither associated with the other big names,as we all know TOYOTA is yhe by word for reliability , we hope :)

ps hope you get yours sorted if not where do we go from here, i will keep you posted.

mickey.j.

[Uptownbob]

Hi Mickey J and Techy thanks for your responses it just confirms that the garage has been a little economical with the truth when they said that they had trawled their own internal website which is problem feedback site inputted from all Toyota group techs apparently, and guess what found absolutely nothing ? I have contacted Toyota 3 times now and the way they reply is to keep sending me more and more questionaires to fill in the last one was sent from France? and then next a letter from Sarah Fisher Director Customer Relations HR & Training made no mention of problems highlighted in the previous letters but it invited me to fill yet another questionaire in online using my own personal exclusive special Toyota password ? her letter and remember this is from the Director of Customer Relations states quite clearly that she is not able to enter into any direct feedback problems/complaints submitted? Because I have no confidence in this well known North West dealership which I understand is now wholly Japanese owned I decided to keep them out of the loop and write directly to Toyota customer relations taken three weeks for a reply this time and they have assured me that they will liase with dealer and get back to me three weeks on and nothing so far. So another letter is winging it's way to them, the tactic seems to be the drip! drip! drip! drip! affect designed to just gradually wear you down thing is if the payments are suspended not cancelled they have no choice they will have to take note won't they? I will keep you posted with any developments but as you both confirm all progress is slow. In respect of our specific problems perhaps their are some brave Toyota Techs (in service) out there who could enlighten us all with there knowledge. But one final thing to ponder on, Toyota brag about having "a fix-it first time policy" I think that they have forgotten to mention that if they are unable to fix it first time then their brief is to just walk away and say Stuff It. Thanks PS Micky J Yes after insisting that there was a clutch judder problem and I managed to show them not easy as they prefer to test drive your vehicle Alone Yes a new modified clutch to fix the non existent clutch judder was fitted..... or was it ? anyway after dropping/opening the gearbox and fitting new modified clutch that's when the difficulty of getting into second gear and reverse gear was experienced but from cold settles down when warmed up however an intermittent juddering clutch has returned. They half solve one problem and create another more internally damaging one 2nd & reverse gears crunch and grind. Bob.

[Uptownbob]

Is there any other Yaris owners out there with clutch judder and transmission problems ie who has had a modified clutch fitted which has resulted in difficulty engaging both 2nd and reverse gear when vehicle is left overnight and first driven from cold. Bob

[techy]

Uptownbob,

I have found the same with Toyota customer services, you get a response, that really does not answer all the questions, and it really just wears you down.

I have written direct to the head of customer services twice, but you never get the politeness of a direct reponse, it's just passed down the line.

My gearbox is still in bits, and they are changing the selector now, i would would have thought it would be better to put a new gearbox in.

Although, my experince shows me that there is no consideration given at all to how much trouble the customer is put to, you would not credit the expense i have been put to in fuel bills alone,

But when i suggseted recovering some of the costs, i was given the 20,000 service as a goodwill gesture, which only meets a small part of the costs.

I have to be honest, really given up, and can see no way forward .

Regards

Techey

[Jason Parkins]

At last I have found some other disappointed and hacked off Toyota Yaris owners. I have recently purchased a Toyota 1.3 Yaris Zinc (Sept 07) and had terrible clutch judder when taking off and when driving in rain. Took car back to dealer and they assured me that a juddering problem on the Yaris is very unusual and tested the car stating that they could not find any problems. Returned home left overnight in cold next day severe judder on take off contacted dealer and told them problem is when car engine is cold and when first driven. Left car overnight at dealers and they contacted me and confirmed that car did have a judder told me a complete modified clutch assembly had been fitted, I enquired about the word "modified" which suggests a long term problem yes they admitted some cars are problematic. Couple of days later and a new problem surfaced, when first driven from cold I had difficulty in getting car to go in reverse off drive and second gear in fact I shudder to think what damage is being caused as gear teeth crunch when trying to put it into those gears . Contacted dealer and explained new problem once again assurances that they have never ever had problems of this nature with a Yaris. I have read the posts here and thank you all because I now think my dealer is speaking with forked tongue. Once again car left overnight at dealer, Result, dealer reported no problems with reverse or second gear so where do I go from here. Was advised to contact (not the affiliated RAC) but the AA and have an engineer check problem out and make a written report, then at least I have evidence that problem is not in my head but does actually exist. Toyota appear to be too busy marketing this "Quality Image" which I can confirm in my personal experience it does seem to be a complete Myth. Jason P.

[mickey.j]

hi, guys.

i have a feeling this is going to be a very long drawn out affair. why oh why can`t the dealers just be up front and honest and simply admit,yes there is a problem and we will do our upmost to sort it. :(

if we had purchased a faulty item from say ARGOS it would be swapped or sorted no questions asked..WHAT MAKES A CAR SO DIFFERNT. i dare say this would not happen in the USA with their lemon laws.

i digress a little but 2 years ago i strayed from the TOYOTA nest and purchased an AUDI A4. 2.0TDI. oh boy what a big boo boo that was for a brand new car i had problem after problem,the best of which was a headlight that quite litterally filled up with water,so off to the dealer to sort it,guess what he said?, `sir they all do this to a certain degree.`i replied ok,why has the other side not filled up?. his answer was an absoulte classic. `you must have had that side parked in the sun to dry it out`.. to say i could have stuffed the car where the sun don`t shine is putting it midly..

the morlae of my tale was i took a massive finical hit got rid of it and went bqack to good old TOYOTA (avensis).work colleagues thought i was bonkers but as uptownbob will know this sort of thing gets to you after a bit. a tleast i now have dry lights :) :)

anywho back on topic, we have not yet mentioned the wifes clutch problem to out ripoff center yet but will let you know what our reply is, just a bit of inside knowledge , all sales staff at dealerships have been trianed in the art of hood winking us poor cusutomers, the most common of all replies is..... well sir or madam,you are the first customer we have ever had with this problem... do you get the drift of what we are up against :P

one last thought i have been thinking of a single word we could all use to ,maybe get some custmoer service,,,HONDA...

happy motoring mickey.j.

[Uptownbob]

Hi Mickey J on the subject of Honda in the US sales of certain Honda's have been withdrawn form sale because of reliability problems. Anyone who has ever owned a Japanese built Honda/Toyota will probably confirm that nothing ever went wrong problem now is that Japan because of high costs cannot build cars for the whole world which is why my Yaris was built in France, now I quite like the French cannot build cars but they have bottle, not convinced? OK name one French built marque that is well built. I think it's where Toyota sources it's components from and I suspect the same place as Renault Citroen Peugeot in France which is probably where the real problems lie. My daughters gearbox on her 04 Clio dropped to the ground whilst on the motorwayas a result of a batch of faulty gearbox mountings she kept car for a year and then swapped it for a Citroen C4 since that time she was forever getting C4 recall letters and seemed to back at the garage every couple of months so I think it's where it's put together and it's components are made that is the important issue going back to the rogue Honda's I think they were either made in North America or Brazil. If your going to build abroad your Quality Control needs to be spot on and sadly it's a case of out of sight out of mind Toyota will turn a blind eye and do nothing positive until the money stops rolling in. BOB.

[CMC_MLT]

Could you define "cluth judder" more precisely?

I've got a yr 2000 Vitz (yaris japan import) and a yr 2000 Platz (a saloon veri of the yaris also japan import), both suffer from a rumble when revving up from a gear shift. The Platz 2nd gear seems particularly finicky in the way that you describe but is not susceptible to ambient temperature. Best way to engage 2nd I found is using double cluth like an old crash g'box, doesn't make for quick shifts but slides in much more smoothly - Since double cluth seems to imporve at least in my csae I concluded that the issue s probably in the cone-clutches/baulk ring mechanisim of the 2nd gear itself - Give it a try with double cluth and see how well you can shift. By the way I changed the factory g'box oil to 75W90 full sythetic gear oil but no particular improvement was noted - in your case colder winters and problem overnight might indicate that the cone clitches do not manage to equaize speeds correctly due to a thick layer of oil which upon heatig up gets dispersed much quicker every time you shift

[welshphil]

Could you define "cluth judder" more precisely?

<I've got a yr 2000 Vitz (yaris japan import) and a yr 2000 Platz (a saloon veri of the yaris also japan import), both suffer from a rumble when revving up from a gear shift. The Platz 2nd gear seems particularly finicky in the way that you describe but is not susceptible to ambient temperature. Best way to engage 2nd I found is using double cluth like an old crash g'box, doesn't make for quick shifts but slides in much more smoothly - Since double cluth seems to imporve at least in my csae I concluded that the issue s probably in the cone-clutches/baulk ring mechanisim of the 2nd gear itself - Give it a try with double cluth and see how well you can shift. By the way I changed the factory g'box oil to 75W90 full sythetic gear oil but no particular improvement was noted - in your case colder winters and problem overnight might indicate that the cone clitches do not manage to equaize speeds correctly due to a thick layer of oil which upon heatig up gets dispersed much quicker every time you shift>

"Give it a try with double cluth and see how well you can shift"

Do you mean double de-clutch?I wonder how many on here know what that is and how to do it,with modern synchro boxes it seems to have gone out of fashion.Not to be confused with constant rev changes.With modern Volvo truck gearboxes the manufacturer recommends NOT double-declutching as the box has"double synchro cones"(or something like that!!!)

Love the old crash(constant mesh)boxes.Clutchlessgear changes once you were moving ,after a lot of practice.I'm surprised the method is necessary on modern cars,would indicate a problem.I have an auto 1.3 Yaris so no problem.

[Uptownbob]

Hi Welshphil....... had a W registered SR built in Japan absolutely superb never went near a dealer except for servicing which is why when I downsized I went for another one Luck of the draw perhaps. Like you say Toyota do not recommend double-de clutching. Aside from clutch judder on take-off I had absolutely no problems whatsoever with engaging both reverse or in fact second gear all gear changes were smooth and uneventful this problem has only surfaced as a direct result of fitting of a modified clutch, unlike you I'm absolutely clueless as far as how the internal components of a Toyota Yaris gearbox actually work, but it feels as though something is slightly out of alignment, that said however it does improve when warmed up, so thinking logically about it that theory does not quite add up. Car left unused for a week used first time this morning and it grinds and crunches away once again in both reverse and second gear, annoying thing is dealer has on three occasions maintained that they could not find anything wrong but having said that they said that they were unable to detect the clutch judder until the third attempt but curiously once confirmed it seems Toyota have major problems and thousands of Yaris clutches are suspect. how very odd? Bob.

[CMC_MLT]

On a synchromesh box, when the clutch pedal is depressed the input shaft and lay shaft of the G'box are isolated from the engine and are to all intents and purposes free wheeling on inertia. When you try to engage the next gear the initial movement of the lever brings together two cone cluthes (not to be confused with the clutch which the driver controls) which rev up the layshaft/input shaft assembly to the same speed as the mainshaft which is hard coupled to the road wheels. Once the speeds of main shaft and lay shaft are aligned a set of dog teeth engage, locking the poisitvely the gear to the main shaft thereby effectively hard coupling the main shaft to the layshat/input shaft - and from then on to the engine once the pedal is released. Baulk ring synchro is an evolution of the this system which need a drawing to be explained but the basis is the same. This process can be felt on the gear lever when changing gears, you feel as sort of double notch action when sliding the lever into position.

As such double clutch (or de-clutch as you call it) should not have any adverse effct on the g'box itself, only maybe an increasd wear on the thrust bearing and on your knee! Theoretically it is not necessary on a synchromesh g'box cause that's what th synchor is there for but, well....

More and more I think that the 2nd gear issue is due to an unfortunate choice of gear ratio for these g'boxes. I don't know on the european versions but the grey import vitz and platz have the 2nd ger which is qut close to the 1st gear - so much so without revving too much on 1st it's usually possible to slip into 3rd without adverse feel in the driving, given a light car and flat ground. - a very low 2nd means that it will need either high revs on the layshaft or low speed on the roadwheels to engage well. As such I think modified clutch versions will not be able to cure anything unless possibly if the modification is such that it allows more slip and the standard clutch - far fetched in my opioin but anyway.

Might be interesting to see if there are any 1500cc owners who also suffer from this issue cause I'd think these would have a different set of ratios

Truck boxes are weird animals from outer space - I still have nightmares of the epycyclic hi/low unit on the Foden/Gardner turcks of my student years......

[seveer unaek]

I had clutch judder problems on my 2002 1.3 SR, this too was in mainly cold/wet conditions. Took it to dealer and they replaced the clutch plate. Not a problem since. This was at 15k miles, car is now at 70k miles and I have had not a single jot of bother.

[AGrainger]

Just a few months ago I took delivery of an apparently French built Yaris 1.3 SR. Sadly within a short time there was a really bad clutch judder on take off (definately not carpets) So I visited the local dealer who apparently road tested the car and said cannot find a problem told them worse when cold and when wet? Had to return to dealer with another problem and mentioned juddering clutch to technician stood in dealer carpark who said quite openly that Toyota had major problems with juddering clutches on the old and new shape Yaris models and as a result they have developed a modified clutch he test drove my car and agreed a juddering clutch problem. Returned a few days later modified clutch was fitted and although there is now an intermittent problem it's not perfect but not as bad however I have since inherited major problems once again when cold engaging both second gear and reverse once again more so when cold after sitting overnight. It's as though something is preventing lever from going into gate their is resistence as it crunches into gear. I have returned to garage however once again they claim that they cannot find a problem despite not one but four different test drivers curiously I was advised to log the mileage I'm glad I did because despite not one but four test drives the car had covered barely a mile? Incidently I returned to the dealer because of a loud window rattle they were unable to find that fault either which just frustrates and wears you down. The Toyota owned Cheshire/Greater Manchester dealership informed me that they have trawled their own internal dealer problem system and cannot find any problems with any 2007 Yaris gear engagement problems which is odd because Shamus19 has experienced the exact same problem. I took the vehicle out on Toyota finance have written to Toyota GB twice they responded with a questionaire which I completed then another questionaire followed which was completed then a letter with a password and instructions to go online tp://www.toyota-customerfirst.com/UK (Customer First was this a joke?) recently another letter they advise they cannot intervene as they are just SALES ? and marketing only on verge of dumping car back at dealership and cancelling direct debit. Any ideas as to problem or advice to make positive progress. Please no more questionaires. UptownBob

it might be to do with the clutch fluid... might want changing but on a new car i wudnt expect it to want that already

my yaris cdx has clutch judder but my clutch is probably worn

[Krayon_Yaris_sr]

i have just bought my w reg yaris and my rover used to judder every now and again when it first started. my yaris seems to be when im in mid drive its like its on kangaroo petrol haha, thought it was just me but if its a common thing oh well.

[AGrainger]

hi,

iv got clutch judder on my yaris but i dont know if its had a modified clutch or not.

mines really bad setting off on hills-its to do with the revs though...

if i have it around 1500 then its horrible but at 2000 theres the odd one judder.

i'v had the clutch fluid bled but hasn't made as much difference as i thought it would.

its had me really frustrated, i thought that trying to burn a bit of clutch plate might even help but i dont know if the clutch's had abuse and dont really want to pay for a new clutch.alex

[mark999]

My 00 1.0GS has terrible clutch judder in winter after a cold start. If you have had your car for less than 6 months you are completely within your rights to reject it under the sale of goods act for a full refund.

[Tarbet]

Just a few months ago I took delivery of an apparently French built Yaris 1.3 SR. Sadly within a short time there was a really bad clutch judder on take off (definately not carpets) So I visited the local dealer who apparently road tested the car and said cannot find a problem told them worse when cold and when wet? Had to return to dealer with another problem and mentioned juddering clutch to technician stood in dealer carpark who said quite openly that Toyota had major problems with juddering clutches on the old and new shape Yaris models and as a result they have developed a modified clutch he test drove my car and agreed a juddering clutch problem. Returned a few days later modified clutch was fitted and although there is now an intermittent problem it's not perfect but not as bad however I have since inherited major problems once again when cold engaging both second gear and reverse once again more so when cold after sitting overnight. It's as though something is preventing lever from going into gate their is resistence as it crunches into gear. I have returned to garage however once again they claim that they cannot find a problem despite not one but four different test drivers curiously I was advised to log the mileage I'm glad I did because despite not one but four test drives the car had covered barely a mile? Incidently I returned to the dealer because of a loud window rattle they were unable to find that fault either which just frustrates and wears you down. The Toyota owned Cheshire/Greater Manchester dealership informed me that they have trawled their own internal dealer problem system and cannot find any problems with any 2007 Yaris gear engagement problems which is odd because Shamus19 has experienced the exact same problem. I took the vehicle out on Toyota finance have written to Toyota GB twice they responded with a questionaire which I completed then another questionaire followed which was completed then a letter with a password and instructions to go online tp://www.toyota-customerfirst.com/UK (Customer First was this a joke?) recently another letter they advise they cannot intervene as they are just SALES ? and marketing only on verge of dumping car back at dealership and cancelling direct debit. Any ideas as to problem or advice to make positive progress. Please no more questionaires. UptownBob

Hello,

New Yaris bought October 2007, I apparently have the same problem, Clutch Judder, starting in my Yaris TR D4D. so far I have had the whole Steering colum replaced, Creaking dash that I eventually fixed myself after two attempts at the dealership, then the rear hatch back button started jamming in, apparently some clip had worked itself loose. As regards returning the car and cancelling the DD, I would avoid this option as it would effect your credit rating. remember you have a three year warranty.

[janw]

Just a few months ago I took delivery of an apparently French built Yaris 1.3 SR. Sadly within a short time there was a really bad clutch judder on take off (definately not carpets) So I visited the local dealer who apparently road tested the car and said cannot find a problem told them worse when cold and when wet? Had to return to dealer with another problem and mentioned juddering clutch to technician stood in dealer carpark who said quite openly that Toyota had major problems with juddering clutches on the old and new shape Yaris models and as a result they have developed a modified clutch he test drove my car and agreed a juddering clutch problem. Returned a few days later modified clutch was fitted and although there is now an intermittent problem it's not perfect but not as bad however I have since inherited major problems once again when cold engaging both second gear and reverse once again more so when cold after sitting overnight. It's as though something is preventing lever from going into gate their is resistence as it crunches into gear. I have returned to garage however once again they claim that they cannot find a problem despite not one but four different test drivers curiously I was advised to log the mileage I'm glad I did because despite not one but four test drives the car had covered barely a mile? Incidently I returned to the dealer because of a loud window rattle they were unable to find that fault either which just frustrates and wears you down. The Toyota owned Cheshire/Greater Manchester dealership informed me that they have trawled their own internal dealer problem system and cannot find any problems with any 2007 Yaris gear engagement problems which is odd because Shamus19 has experienced the exact same problem. I took the vehicle out on Toyota finance have written to Toyota GB twice they responded with a questionaire which I completed then another questionaire followed which was completed then a letter with a password and instructions to go online tp://www.toyota-customerfirst.com/UK (Customer First was this a joke?) recently another letter they advise they cannot intervene as they are just SALES ? and marketing only on verge of dumping car back at dealership and cancelling direct debit. Any ideas as to problem or advice to make positive progress. Please no more questionaires. UptownBob

[janw]

Could anyone help me. In September I purchased a new Yaris TR 1.3 not the MMT. I am intermittently experiencing clutch judder. It is always when the car is cold & pulling off in 1st. The car mats were in with the car when I purchased it so I don't think that this is the problem. I have rung my local dealer saying that Toyota are aware of this problem as I had read it somewhere on the internet & the fix would be to fit a modified clutch. They informed me that the only clutch problems were on the MMT models. Has anyone else had this problem on the same model? The Dealer said that I could take it in but as it is intermittent I know that they are not likely to experience the problem. Thanks

[Raeman]

My 2000 yaris Sr has an awfull gearbox,even when it's warm. reverse is hard to find and ALL the gears are clunky esp 1st to 2nd.

The WORST gearbox i've ever had on any car,feels like it's going to break even tho i drive it gentle!

[wiz]

Hi

Wish me luck

I am about to report clutch judder on a Yaris 1.3 SR purchased Nov 2007, 3000 miles on the clock.

Only does it after car left for two days or more

Only does it pulling away in first gear

Only does it on the first 5 or 6 pull away in first then goes away until car left again.

You can engage drive and start moving with foot completely off the clutch and as soon as you hit the gas, judder judder judder.

Goodness knows how much strain this is putting on the clutch.

To me being a non technical person this sounds like either condensation on the clutch plate or a lubrication problem somewhere.

Can the garage fix it who knows.

Will the car come back worse then before?

How many attempts do you give the garage before you can demand a full refund?

[samir23]

got same prob with my car...

hell, the gearbox of a ford fiesta is much better than my yaris

Let us know what happens with the repairs... I'm thinking of taking mine to the garage as well but a bibt scared of them making things worse than before...

[wiz]

2000 miles now on the new clutch. No judder just poor second gear from cold.