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1.6vvti Engine Noises


GRJ10000
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Can anyone help with the following problems.....

The engine in my Corolla has recently started making a dull metallic knocking sound at startup which dissappears once the engine has warmed up.It sounds like either the Cam Shafts or Piston Slap. The engine has only done 38k, has been meticulously serviced and has not been thrashed.

Also when the engine is started either from cold or if it has been standing for a while, there is a quite a lot of "top end rattle" until the Oil pressure builds up.

Are these symptoms common??? My local dealer tells me the top end rattle is, but I'm not so sure! as for the other engine noise

has anyone else experienced anything similar?

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The Oil was changed at 33k (about 6 weeks ago......I do 140 per day!!!!!)

Since I have owned the car (6k on the clock when I bought it) the Oil has been changed more frequently than necessary..on average about every 7k.

Last time it was changed it was still making the noises...even with fresh Oil.

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The VVT-I engines are not the quietest you will find, but all OHC engines tend to rattle at the top end until the Oil circultates. Just takes a little longer in this colder weather due to viscosity of the Oil.

Does it burn Oil or use more more fuel than usual? If not, I wouldn't worry too much.

For peace of mind........... take it in to Dealers as previously suggested.

Keep us updated.

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The VVT-I engines are not the quietest you will find, but all OHC engines tend to rattle at the top end until the oil circultates. Just takes a little longer in this colder weather due to viscosity of the oil.

Does it burn oil or use more more fuel than usual?  If not, I wouldn't worry too much. 

For peace of mind........... take it in to Dealers as previously suggested.

Keep us updated.

Hm! I have a corolla (Japanese sedan model from 1990), and it has around 80.000 miles on it... When it is cold outside, for example, 15 deg. celzius or bellow when you start the car (BUT only if car is not driven for 1-2 days) engine will sound a little louder (no rattling, jut rough louder sound) but ONLY for a second (my Oil light goes off in a half of a second when I start it, hope it will stay that way for a long time :thumbsup: ).. but only for a second, not longer, but you cannot hear that outside, just inside the car, it is not that loud... after that second my engine sounds normal, no rattling, no anything... just smooth sound... I think it is maybe so called - cold start, when it is cold, it takes more time for Oil pressure to build up and it takes much more time for the engine to reach it's operating temperature... my, borther who is mechanic, says that Oil light MUST NOT stay ON longer than two seconds... and during those 2-3 seconds you may hear louder engine sounds... because in cold weather Oil takes a little bit more time to reach all engine components... but don't worry - it is normal, it will not harm the engine - just don't step hard on a gas pedal on cold starts - let it shake if it is shaking, but don't push the pedal... that will harm the engine on cold start :yes:

But if you hear that sound for 30-60 seconds or more... that can be a some problem... he says that usually (in winter) it will take 2-3 seconds more for Oil to cover all areas in the engine (it is not so noticable when it is warm outside) and in that period engine can be louder (shaking a little bit is normal... it is cold)... Also... it doesn't matter if you are low on Oil (maybe if you are well bellow low Oil mark)... but when the Oil is between LOW and FULL mark engine HAS all lubrication it needs (on my corolla you have 2,9 litres of Oil, or 2,1 - 2,2 on LOW mark, so the engine is designed for that). Maybe, maybe if you are out of Oil you can hear rattling, on start and even when the engine is hot...

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Apparently, the Avensis VVT-i's are chain driven, so if the Corollas are aswell then that may cause the rattly noise.

It was common on the old Nissan Primera and Micra as they were chain driven to make this noise until the Oil got round as the chains do rattle a bit. To me it sounds like this is whats happening, in which case it's nothing really to worry about, and explains why the noise goes away within a couple of minutes.

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Hello. I have the 1.4lt E12 corolla and now that the weather is getting colder i also hear some 'sounds' from my engine especially when its still cold... i changed Oil a week ago and now the sounds aren't as loud as before..

the car has 32.000km and the engine 12.000km.

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I need to do my homework and suss out the design of the cam followers. (Can I have a manual for Christmas please Santa!!!)

For the first few seconds on start-up always when cold and sometimes when hot it sounds like a bag of nails.Irrespective of Oil level or age etc

What I think may have happened and this is common on others makes of cars as well, is that the seals have gone in the hydraulic tappets. This allows the Oil to drain away when the engine is stopped. The longer its stopped...the more the Oil drains away. What I have also noticed with this car is that on start-up the injection/ignition system immediately induces a burst of revs, which when there is no Oil in the top end is (eventually) a recipe for disaster.

I think the knocking noise (which is getting worse slowly)is due to component damage caused by high revs and lack of Oil.

It could be a damaged follower, camshaft or (worst fears) camshaft bearing in the head. When the engine is warm its as sweet as a nut, still runs fine, fuel economy is good etc...but when its cold it makes me cringe. The noise lasts for 3-4 minutes before it gradually subsides.

The Oil pressure light has never faltered and as I have said before I have always changed the Oil more frequently than necesary..upto the right level!It would be interesting to find out where the Oil pressure sensor is in the Oil path....It could well be indicating sufficient pressure at the botton end while there is a drought up above...

I think I might have to roll my sleeves up and investigate over the festive period!!!

Seasons Greetings to Y'all

G

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What I think may have happened and this is common on others makes of cars as well, is that the seals have gone in the hydraulic tappets. This allows the oil to drain away when the engine is stopped. The longer its stopped...the more the oil drains away. What I have also noticed with this car is that on start-up the injection/ignition system immediately  induces a burst of revs, which when there is no oil in the top end is (eventually) a recipe for disaster.

I think the knocking noise (which is getting worse slowly)is due to component damage caused by high revs and lack of oil.

It could be a damaged follower, camshaft or (worst fears) camshaft bearing in the head. When the engine is warm its as sweet as a nut, still runs fine, fuel economy is good etc...but when its cold it makes me cringe. The noise lasts for 3-4 minutes before it gradually subsides.

Hmmm... I am driving my car some 10,000 miles with bad valve seals... but there is no difference or change in engine sound or whatever. Only when it is cold (in wintertime)... when I start the engine for the FIRST and only the FIRST second when the engine is started it sounds louder then after that (only one second) it sounds normal (on cold start idle)... no high revings up and down... no knocking, pinging, ticking, rumble-tumble... With bad valve seals you only must check Oil regulary and fill it up if necessary... it cannot be any damage, well maybe your plugs will be little bit olied, but when the engine warms up the Oil will be burned (Oil is for cleaning not for dirting the engine) and then you see a smoke on startup... or sometimes when you accelerate hard... The damage is done when you are out of Oil or if you are driving hard in warm weather with Oil on LOW mark... And ALL COLD starts damage the engine a little bit - but it will shorten engine life maybe 1000-2000 miles... that is nothing. COLD start cannot be prevented. In EVERY car Oil comes back in crankcase - only when it is cold outside it takes few seconds more for Oil to fill up the engine...

If that is not the case, then the problem is different... From what you described your noise stays too long... it is not good... And one thing more for bad valve seals... Oil will pass through them only when the engine is working... (when you turn engine off pressure will also pull some of Oil in the ignition chamber) and the smoke on startup is the Oil residues in the ignition chamber - in ALL engines Oil comes back down in crankase when you are turn off the engine... if the Oil does not back in the crankcase it IS NOT GOOD - Oil MUST be (99% of oil) in crancase... if the Oil stays too much in camshaft area it is not good - something is blocking Oil passes. Normally, camshaft is oiled with thin layer of Oil which is normal, but if it swims in Oil... that's not good - maybe the other engine parts are dry!

Check everything...

regards,

Ivan

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