Diesel Discrimination

[bothwell_buyer]

I visited a Shell garage today - as one does from time to time. As I was filling up the Punto with petrol I thought about the difficulties caused by people filling their diesel cars with petrol by mistake.

It must be very easy to make that mistake.

And then I looked more closely.

There is no braille nor audible warning that you have removed the filler hose from any particular pump. It must be incredibly difficult for those blind diesel car drivers who visit petrol stations to fill up.

I mean, how on earth can they discover or detect which is a diesel pump and which is petrol? You can't feel which one is green and which one is black can you? So how can they tell?

Surely, there should be an audible warning coupled perhaps with a vibrating pistol grip to distinguish which one is diesel....then the oily drivers can avoid costly mistakes in future.

Do you think I should patent this idea cos I had it first?

( I should say that I am registered disabled and know a little bit about the difficulties faced by those with disabilities)

[Demonic Angel]

Surely people who are so blind they cannot tell the difference or read the signs should not actually be driving to begin with?

That's not being discriminatory, but surely you have to have a certain level of sight to have a licence?

[Auris 1.6 vvt-i]

I mean, how on earth can they discover or detect which is a diesel pump and which is petrol? You can't feel which one is green and which one is black can you? So how can they tell?

How about taking a sip...? :P :D

[Demonic Angel]

The law says:

* The requirement to drive a car or ride a motorcycle is that the person must be able to read in good light (with the aid of glasses or contact lenses if worn) a registration mark fixed to a motor vehicle and containing letters and figures 79 millimetres high and 50 millimetres wide at a distance of 20 metres, or at a distance of 20.5 metres where the characters are 79 millimetres high and 57 millimetres wide (i.e. pre 1.9.2001 font).

* The minimum field of vision for safe driving is defined as field of at least 120° on the horizontal, and there should be no significant defect in the binocular field which encroaches within 20° of fixation above or below the horizontal meridian.

* Group 2 licenses (includes large lorries and buses): new applicants are barred in law if the visual acuity, using corrective lenses if necessary, is worse than 6/9 in the better eye or 6/12 in the other eye. The uncorrected acuity in each eye must be at least 3/60.

[silversurfer]

but what about people who are colour blind and can not read with no sense of smell and deaf?? what about them people?

[john1944]

The law says:

* The requirement to drive a car or ride a motorcycle is that the person must be able to read in good light (with the aid of glasses or contact lenses if worn) a registration mark fixed to a motor vehicle and containing letters and figures 79 millimetres high and 50 millimetres wide at a distance of 20 metres, or at a distance of 20.5 metres where the characters are 79 millimetres high and 57 millimetres wide (i.e. pre 1.9.2001 font).

* The minimum field of vision for safe driving is defined as field of at least 120° on the horizontal, and there should be no significant defect in the binocular field which encroaches within 20° of fixation above or below the horizontal meridian.

* Group 2 licenses (includes large lorries and buses): new applicants are barred in law if the visual acuity, using corrective lenses if necessary, is worse than 6/9 in the better eye or 6/12 in the other eye. The uncorrected acuity in each eye must be at least 3/60.

Bothwell Buyer my old beaut. The problem with your idea is that many people who are blind are deaf as well, so that reduces the impact that an audible warning would have. I think we have a major issue here. Petrol and diesel are dangerous commodities, and blind drivers should not be allowed to use these pumps, as they do run the danger of over filling their tanks and spilling fuel on to the forecourt. This could have drastic consequences, particularly if the drivers in question are smokers, and cannot read the no smoking signs. I do think it is important for drivers who leave their cars at fuel stations to remove their ignition keys, in order to alleiviate another problem which could occur with blind drivers moving off in the wrong car. Many cars are adapted for use by disabled people, but I am not sure what adaption is currently offered to blind drivers. Rear seat driving positions would be useful, to lessen the effects of any impact, and exhaustless vehicles would add to the noise of a vehicle and give other road users early warning.

I hope this is of some use to you.

[hertsnminds]

The nozzles are different sizes, so any easy way to tell the difference is to just feel the end of your hose :P

[Bizarra]

Once upon a time (as fairy tales begin ) I Left my Renault Kangaroo van to my main dealers for service. As usual they lent me a car to keep me mobile & as usual the fuel needle was below zero.

I made it to my usual filling station, where I have an account. I looked at the dials & there was the illuminated coil for a diesel. Renault 19. naturally I filled her with diesel & went on my merry way.

I managed to do the twice daily rounds of my shops, though on one occasion I thought she wasn't going to start. On returning to the garage to collect my van , I gave them a polite bollicking for giving me a clunker. Then the truth emerged that she was petrol. They couldn't believe that I had managed her all day.

Big joke @ my expense ever since. "Now Victor, this car is petrol, don't go putting diesel in " Ha bloody ha !

[vmail]

but what about people who are colour blind and can not read with no sense of smell and deaf?? what about them people?

then legally they are not allowed to drive

[bothwell_buyer]

Interesting posts but you missed the idea of a vibrating pistol grip. A diesel nozzle/pistol could vibrate quickly whilst a petrol one could generate a click which could be felt.

I had thought of those colour blind and hence the vibration - same with the deaf who obviously would not hear the audible warnings.

Perhaps we should introduce legislation to have petrol attendants to serve at pumps - after all they have them in Europe. You just pays a penny more.

Thank you for the very knowledgeable copy of the regulations regarding seeing a number plate in a fixed distance.

With due respect, there are neither number plates, nor letters that size on a fuel pump so the regulation regarding driving is hardly helpful is it? And what if its night-time??

So, we can have a driver who is unable to see the letters on the pump, not able to recognise the colour, and perhaps has fingerless hands so he/she cannot feel the nozzle size. They may be deaf so audible warning is insufficient.

Furthermore, as you quote, the distance to read a number plate is 20metres or thereabouts. Now, I haven't ever seen a fuel pump at a petrol/diesel station which has a 20m long hose anyway, so we can discount that solution/argument.

This is becoming very frustrating - I'd have thought you good people of Engerland may have solved this one already?? Perthaps it could be a topic for discussion at the forthcoming meet in Scotland??? CFC1 comes from an area where they produce/distribute diesel so experience may play a hand here!

[plus one]

the deaf who obviously would not hear the audible warnings.

but surly they would be able to see the different colour on the pumps or read the diesel and petrol signs above the appropriate pumps

[cabcurtains]

I find grabbing the stinky dirty oily pump and ending up with a dirty hand is the Diesel one and the nice clean one is Petrol, hence why i wear gloves for filling the Passat up. So, smell your hand before pumping....

[silversurfer]

the problem with vibrating pistol grips is that we would never get anywhere near them the petrol stations will allways be full of women???

[bothwell_buyer]

I find grabbing the stinky dirty oily pump and ending up with a dirty hand is the Diesel one and the nice clean one is Petrol, hence why i wear gloves for filling the Passat up. So, smell your hand before pumping....

I did once but it wasn't very nice!!!! I blamed it on the dog........

[JappyBeast]

Quality thread!

Colour blind people mainly only have an issue seeing the difference between green and blue colours only and if you need braile to read the pump then you should not be driving the car at all.

[bothwell_buyer]

Quality thread!

Colour blind people mainly only have an issue seeing the difference between green and blue colours only and if you need braile to read the pump then you should not be driving the car at all.

Thanks for the information on colour-blindness.

As we all know, it is still common for people to put petrol into diesel cars by mistake.

Now, adding aids to avoid this happening - like Braille or vibrating pistols would save these people the embarrassment. (And for the possible queues mentioned earlier by some deprived person, no I don't think women would use the pump for anything else than pumping).

Can I refer you to the excellent submission further up regarding whether someones sight is acceptable? If they can see a number-plate at 20m, then they can drive. But I repeat, for fear of repetition, that there are no number plate size letters on a pump.....and that it is usual to have to be within 2 metres of the pump without causing obstruction to adjacent pumps. This is where the discrimination starts!!!

Perhaps if someone takes a measuring tape the next time they fill up, and measure the letters and numbers at the pump, then confirmation can be made that the letters are in fact under-sized.

[Kev Mc]

I had a petrol for 2 years then bought a diesel & not once have I ever even pulled up closer to the petrol nozzle. If you're not paying enough attention to be aware what fuel the car you own uses, you're not alert enough to be on the road* so get the car out of the way & give your licence back

Got a sneaking suspicion the 1st post might have been a tiny bit tongue-in-cheek with regards to braille

*People driving a car they don't own for the 1st time should be let off ONCE providing they're otherwise mentally stable & have a clean licence

[Tegan]

Am i missing the whole point of this? Surely people who are blind and deaf or partially sighted and deaf are not allowed to drive? Thought you had to inform the DVLA if you even get glasses?

As for the whole near-sighted, short sighted business - you should surely be wearing your glasses while driving if you need them? Hence your sight problem would always be corrected whilst you are filling up your car?

and for those who are neither blind nor deaf but just plain stupid then there has actually been a system invented to stop you filling up with the wrong fuel - although it is not wide spread at the moment.

[bothwell_buyer]

Am i missing the whole point of this? Surely people who are blind and deaf or partially sighted and deaf are not allowed to drive? Thought you had to inform the DVLA if you even get glasses?

As for the whole near-sighted, short sighted business - you should surely be wearing your glasses while driving if you need them? Hence your sight problem would always be corrected whilst you are filling up your car?

and for those who are neither blind nor deaf but just plain stupid then there has actually been a system invented to stop you filling up with the wrong fuel - although it is not wide spread at the moment.

Thank you. I will try to understand your mis-understanding.......

For a licence, you need to self-certify that you can read a registration plate at the distance as detailed in the post above. If you have trouble reading that post, try standing 20metres from it and get the computer to enlarge it.

To see at 20m, one may well have to wear glasses. However, there is, I believe, no regulation that says you need to be able to either read the pump description, nor identify the different colours. Please tell me the regulation reference if I am wrong in this. Equally, there is no regulation that says you need to be able to see the dashboard. So one can wear glasses for distance but not have to switch to reading glasses whilst pumping the car.

Moving on, I am interested that there has been a system designed for "plain stupid" people. Where does this exist and is it not perhaps discriminatory that its only for stupid people? What about those with sight or colour blindness??

[silversurfer]

In all seriousness people who are deaf have as much right to drive as long as they pass there test. but i'm pretty sure the nozzle on diesiel is larger in diamiter than petrol?

[bothwell_buyer]

In all seriousness people who are deaf have as much right to drive as long as they pass there test. but i'm pretty sure the nozzle on diesiel is larger in diamiter than petrol?

I didn't pick up on the deaf thing - my fathers almost totally deaf but it doesn't affect his driving that much....just that he forgets to change gear cos he can't hear the engine.

The diesel nozzle is usually bigger so yes, but; its the petrol nozzle thats smaller and will fit into a diesel filler tube. I suppose people need to feel the nozzle size to get round the problem but its a messy way of doing it.

[Kev Mc]

Thank you. I will try to understand your mis-understanding.......

For a licence, you need to self-certify that you can read a registration plate at the distance as detailed in the post above. If you have trouble reading that post, try standing 20metres from it and get the computer to enlarge it.

To see at 20m, one may well have to wear glasses. However, there is, I believe, no regulation that says you need to be able to either read the pump description, nor identify the different colours. Please tell me the regulation reference if I am wrong in this. Equally, there is no regulation that says you need to be able to see the dashboard. So one can wear glasses for distance but not have to switch to reading glasses whilst pumping the car.

Moving on, I am interested that there has been a system designed for "plain stupid" people. Where does this exist and is it not perhaps discriminatory that its only for stupid people? What about those with sight or colour blindness??

True, you need to be able to read a registration plate from 20 metres but you surely need to be able to read what speed you're doing & also what's immediately in front of your car too. Some people can't read things close up & so need to hold newspapers at arms length or wear reading glasses but they wont be the people who can't read "petrol" or "diesel" on a pump, people who can't read that will be people who just can't see very far & so they should be off the road until they can correct their vision so they can see further away

I can't be bothered looking through the regulations but I'm assuming there's a regulation saying you need to be able to read your speedometer before you can drive because if you can't there could be millions of people driving around not having any idea what speed they're doing. That's dangerous so there must be something stopping them

[hertsnminds]

there could be millions of people driving around not having any idea what speed they're doing.

And they are always driving the car in front of me!

The number of people I see traveling at 40mph on roads where the speed limit signs change from national limit to a 40 mph or 30 mph restriction. They either never read road signs, their speedo or just think there is one speed limit for every type of road and weather condition.

[bothwell_buyer]

In trying to search for the Roads Act legislation, the only thing I can find is being able to read at 20 metres. Same in the Highway Code.

So, does this mean that we should also have audio-visual and physical warnings inside the car for speed; as well as on the pumps????

[Kev Mc]

No, it means people should only drive if their senses allow them to do it safely