Service

[john1944]

I will shortly be booking in for a 20k service on my 07 Rav. Basically to save a close on 200 mile round trip I am going to entrust my service to a local non-franchised garage who have provided me with excellent serivce recently in repairing punctures.

I appreciate it will be necessary to use all the manufacturers parts, but what is the situation regards oil. Do they have to order the same brand that would be used by a Toyota outlet, or will a good quality substitute be acceptable.

[anchorman]

Funilly enough I've just had the same discussion with another member.

The answer is no, you can use any manufacturers oil as long as it is the right grade. I personally use Morris's but other reputable brands are OK.

The engine takes 5.9 litres of 5W30 semi-synthetic (fully synthetic can be used).

Transfer box takes 0.45 litre of GL5 80W90

Rear axle takes 0.5 litre of GL5 straight 90

The gearbox is a problem. You must use 2.1 litres of GL5 straight 75W or you cannot change gear when cold. I couldn't find anywhere that stocked it so I went to a Toyota dealer who decanted me the oil into a clean drum from bulk. They charged me over £11 per litre. If you find a supplier let me know. Maybe Kingo will be our saviour and find a way of shipping some at a discounted price???

If you change the brake fluid TGB are supplying DOT 5.1 which is compatible with the specified DOT 3. I used 1 litre to change mine.

Kingos filters are good value and he will ship them to you very quickly.

Good luck.

[shcm]

The gearbox is a problem. You must use 2.1 litres of GL5 straight 75W or you cannot change gear when cold.

Thanks for the early warning on that one. I hadn't noticed it was straight 75W, but I have now :D.

A question though. Surely a 75w-80 GL5 has the same viscosity cold as a straight 75W? Yep, the 75W-80 may have a slightly higher viscosity at 100C than the straight 75W. I guess you really need viscosity versus temperature graphs to make a proper judgement, plus all the other behaviour under pressure stuff...................

Some of these 75W-80 GL5s claim to be suitable for straight 75W specification requirements.

It's that old "service to manufacturer's recommendation" chestnut, so I'll probably be looking for the straight 75 for mine anyway.

Come on then, put me right! :D

I hope I haven't started an oil spec debate, they can become a bit daft IMHO :).

[anchorman]

You would think that it made very little difference. The whole concept of multigrade oils is that they adopt a low viscosity when cold and a higher one when when hot by altering the molecular structure in relation to temperature. Imagine the oil is supported by a scaffolding that automatically adds more poles when the temperature increases - that is the principle.

I did a lot of research on this and all I can say is trust me on this, you will have difficulty getting gears when cold if you use a multigrade oil with a higher viscosity than 75!

[nig.xl]

If you find a supplier let me know. Maybe Kingo will be our saviour and find a way of shipping some at a discounted price???

Good luck.

Comma do a 75 oil in 1L bottles. Also an application chart on their site.

Although their application chart states to use SX 75W90 GL-5, may not be that accurate.

[anchorman]

I was about to award you a gold star for merit but reading the spec it is especially for Ford MT75 gearboxes and not 75W transmission oil. Nice try though!!!

[nig.xl]

I was about to award you a gold star for merit but reading the spec it is especially for Ford MT75 gearboxes and not 75W transmission oil. Nice try though!!!

NOT GIVEN UP YET

[anchorman]

Keep going Nig!

This is GL4 oil and the RAV MUST have GL5. I did speak to Morris's and they said they are aware of the need for 75W oil in Toyotas but no plans to produce one just yet.

*****Valiant attempt*****

[Hoovie]

Is this like an Oil Treasure Hunt???

Can I enter this one .....

REDLINE Synthetic Gear Oil 75W-90NS GL5 (non Limited Slip)

Any good?

[anchorman]

Nope

Must be straight 75W GL5

Somebody does it for Mr T so it must be there somewhere!

Kingo is seeing if he can do a deal.

However, keep looking Aneka's!!!

[Hoovie]

I did actually find a US site that quoted GL5 oil at 75W with no other numbers after it - but they talked about 5 gallon drums :D

[nig.xl]

I'll see what they do in work.

[shcm]

all I can say is trust me on this, you will have difficulty getting gears when cold if you use a multigrade oil with a higher viscosity than 75!

Well, I don't know! Statements like that usually induce the opposite effect in me. However, as it is you, I will make an exception this time. :P :D. You of all people should know that design engineers are a skeptical bunch. Well, usually the best ones at any rate :P.

Anyway, I got curious. From my level of naivity, it would appear oil viscosity with temperature is a logarithmic/exponential (it's all the same to me) function, so with a few (two) data points you can make a crude first approximation of what the curves might look like:

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-723-castrol-ep...0-gear-oil.aspx

Better scale for temperatures 0C and above:

So, yeah, it seems to suggest for example that at 0C the 75W-80 is "thicker" (915 cSt) than the straight 75W (410 cSt). No Surprise there! Put it another way, 75W-80 in the box at 0C, is like having 75W in the box at about -7ish C, even though both oils meet the low temp 75W spec. Is this what you are getting at with low temperature gear selection?

What I don't have a feel for example is how 915 cSt compares with 410 cSt, or even how 7.4 kcSt would compare with 4.2 kcSt at -20C. The fact that the curve is exponential does make me wonder whether in reality the 915 v 410 doesn't feel much different.

Would 70W-75 be an option?

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1014-redline-s...oil-70w-75.aspx

That's more expensive than your dealer supplied 75W though.

All of these have very similar high temperature values and cover similar "normal uk operating" ranges but the 70W-75 would be a bit thinner at low temp (again no surprise).

OK, this is a very basic, crude and possibly flawed analysis. I appreciate there are other factors. The stuff has to withstand high pressures etc. What else am I missing? Are there perhaps any materials in the gearbox that may not like some of the viscosity modifiers in a multigrade?

Anyway, if Kingo can do a deal, that's perfect! :D

Oh dear, I didn't want to turn this into an "oil spec" debate and I probably just have :(

Cheers

[anchorman]

All very interesting!

I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with multi-grade oils. I'm also sure that Toyota have gone for this box design and all of its complications because using two layshafts side by side make it very compact and therefor useable in such cars as the Auris. At one time gear oils were as thick as possible to reduce wear and noise but with modern materials and precision parts you can use thinner oils which also have a significant affect on fuel consumption. I think they have gone as thin as they can to do just that but not so thin that it starts to compromise the shift quality of the triple syncros. Equally, using thicker oil improves shifting at "normal" temps but makes a b*ggr of it when cold. It is just finding the right balance.

Oils that are rated GL5 are more compatible with modern day materials and seals that are used in the box as well as making them compatible with extreme pressure applications.

I would imagine that the 70W75 would be OK and looking at the cold spec might be even better than 75W?

If I were to try I would wait until the warranty is expired as the first thing Toyota will do in the event of a failure is anylise the oil.

[local hero]

All very interesting!

I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with multi-grade oils. I'm also sure that Toyota have gone for this box design and all of its complications because using two layshafts side by side make it very compact and therefor useable in such cars as the Auris. At one time gear oils were as thick as possible to reduce wear and noise but with modern materials and precision parts you can use thinner oils which also have a significant affect on fuel consumption. I think they have gone as thin as they can to do just that but not so thin that it starts to compromise the shift quality of the triple syncros. Equally, using thicker oil improves shifting at "normal" temps but makes a b*ggr of it when cold. It is just finding the right balance.

Oils that are rated GL5 are more compatible with modern day materials and seals that are used in the box as well as making them compatible with extreme pressure applications.

I would imagine that the 70W75 would be OK and looking at the cold spec might be even better than 75W?

If I were to try I would wait until the warranty is expired as the first thing Toyota will do in the event of a failure is anylise the oil.

What is a 75w gear oil as this is only a cold crank rating isn’t it?

The target here is 4.1 cSt minimum @ 100 deg. C + the low temp target. If the gear oil in question is, for example, a 75W-80 it must meet both specs which is effectively the 75W low temp + the high temp targets of both specs.; 4.1 cSt minimum for the SAE 75W and 7.0 - 11.0 cSt for the SAE 80. You can see that the SAE 80 target " overlays" the SAE 75W target so expect the KV 100 of a 75W-80 to be about 9 cSt... Not a flocking clue what this means but thought it might make me look clever..

[shcm]

If I were to try I would wait until the warranty is expired as the first thing Toyota will do in the event of a failure is anylise the oil.

Thanks for that. Yep, agree - certainly wouldn't muck about until after warranty is out.

Not a flocking clue what this means but thought it might make me look clever..

I was really impressed with that, until the last bit. :D.

However, we already know you are dead clever:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7613621.stm

Maybe you can tell Mrs Hero, that you have an enlarged hippocampus - I'm sure she will be very impressed

Cheers

[local hero]

Not a flocking clue what this means but thought it might make me look clever..

I was really impressed with that, until the last bit. :D.

However, we already know you are dead clever:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7613621.stm

Maybe you can tell Mrs Hero, that you have an enlarged hippocampus - I'm sure she will be very impressed

Cheers

My enlarged hippocampus was the very reason Local Heroine married me, however as i am getting older i find my hippo isnt as large anymore, and definitely not as often..

[Hoovie]

I have a large hippo

here is a picture of him ...........

[shcm]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

It's a N-N-N-Ned F-F-Flanders :fear:

[local hero]

I have a large hippo

here is a picture of him ...........

HOOVIE How did you manage to get a picture of Local Heroine in the bath..

[anchorman]

Long day at work and rules exam tomorrow. Duncs knows what that means

Stewpot you had me going for a bit there - I was going to plead insanity just to get me out of having to comment further.

Anyway why have you got a chicken wish bone in your brain?

Sywy

Show em a real photo of a Hippo - I will never forget how good it is!!!

Where were we? Oil. 75W is just the right thickness Stew.

Shcm - we will discuss in more detail during your annual migration north for a day.

[local hero]

Long day at work and rules exam tomorrow. Duncs knows what that means

Stewpot you had me going for a bit there - I was going to plead insanity just to get me out of having to comment further.

Anyway why have you got a chicken wish bone in your brain?

Sywy

Show em a real photo of a Hippo - I will never forget how good it is!!!

Where were we? Oil. 75W is just the right thickness Stew.

Shcm - we will discuss in more detail during your annual migration north for a day.

Just in case whatever i wrote meant anything to you, I googled 75w oil and after about 5 pages came up with an article by (honest John) on the merits of different gear oils,

[Parts-King]

AM Please accept my apologies, I forgot completely about this thread Ooops

I will investigate the case of smaller quantities, last time I looked it was only available in 25 ltrs

Will report back later

PS MORE HIPPO ACTION I didnt want to feel left out Photo'd in Kenya last year, tying to hide from me

Kingo

[Hoovie]

Off topic, but I don't care :D - great photos, Kingo Been to Kenya twice and never made it on safari yet

[Parts-King]

Hmmmmmm Interesting

The 75w gear oil is available as follows

Part number 08885-81001 MTF LV 75W 1 LitreLV 75W £11.66

Part number 08885-81040 MTF LV 75W 20Litre LV 75W £180.03

The above prices are retail, sorry we cant post/courier oil as we require a hazard licence and dont sell enough oils to justify it. It can be purchased from your local dealer

It is described as LV Spec 75W and not GL-5, we also do GL-5 but as a multigarde 75/90 85/90 80/90. Not being an expert on oil, I leave it to the experts

HOOVIE: Thanks for the comments. The Masai Mara was superb for photography, the light and amount of animals was superb

Kingo