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mbellinger

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Everything posted by mbellinger

  1. I think it is a real missed opportunity by Toyota not to give the Aygo stop-start like the iQ benefits from. It makes a double digit percentage difference in urban driving. At the office, we have just passed back a couple of new shape Punto's with stop-start and the little 1.2 petrol engine went from 46 to 40mpg in urban work when you switched it off.
  2. Please ignore what Kingo says above. ANY dealer can sell at the DtD or indeed ANY other internet price - IF THEY WANT TO. It is the last part of that sentence that is critical. Car dealers nowadays benefit from a hugely complex range of bonuses, as well as their vehicle margin. There are monthly bonuses, quarterly bonuses, and even specific bonuses based on certain models. The price depends on how much of these bonuses the dealer decides to give away. This can depend on a number of factors. If a dealer needs a handful of units to achieve a big bonus, he will give some more money away and even sell a unit at a loss, as it is fiscally worth it for him to look at the bigger picture. You should have no trouble finding a Toyota dealer to match DtD, especially if you make the purchase at the end of a month and quarter, as dealers are on for double-bubble bonuses at that time. I recently had to buy a couple of Prius' and my local dealer (Jemca Bromley) refused to budge off of a 3% discount, saying (with their usual high-handed arrogance) I could go anywhere and I would not better that deal. Within 15 minutes and two phone calls I had another Toyota dealer offer to match Broadspeeds 11% discount and deliver both cars for free. Guess who got the business....
  3. Your experience mirrors mine. First full tank 55 miles off of the first blob. They do improve with running in as they loosen up. I am now on my fifth tank at 1700 miles and get 75ish miles from the first blob on the gauge - up from 55 miles, so there is an definite improvement. In MPG I have gone from 46 to 52mpg as the bookends - the 46 was the first tank and the 52 the fourth. My driving is a mix of urban and motorway, with very little 'A' road work. I am sorry, but I do not subscribe to the idea that one should crawl dangerously around at 60mph in the inside lane to get decent fuel figures out of a car in 2011. A new car should be perfectly capable of cruising at the legal limit and giving decent consumption. And coasting, by the way, is illegal in the UK. The simple answer is that the Aygo performs nowhere near as well as the (misleading) official figures suggest. Fact. In this respect it is not alone - many small cars are designed to excel at the official tests (which of course are not conducted anywhere near a road, but in a laboratory). The Fiat 500 TwinAir is the latest to be exposed in this way. In larger engined cars, the differences between real-world and laboratory-world fuel consumption are often less marked, because the engine is working less hard. If you want impressive fuel consumption the only way to go is diesel, because the much greater low down torque allows them to pull higher gearing at any given speed. We have had a Mini Cooper D and one of those new Skoda Fabia Greenline models in for evaluation at work recently. The Mini refused to do less than 57mpg, even when taken by my most ham-fisted driver for a week. The Skoda is doing 71mpg. Both are very impressive vehicles, especially the Skoda. My colleagues 2.0 litre Passat diesel estate is cheaper to fuel than my Aygo. It will also hold five people and their luggage and do 130mph (were permitted). On a recent trip to the Black Forest in Germany, four up with bags, we set the cruise at 110mph and still obtained over 40mpg (real, not dashboard computed), which is impressive stuff. An Aygo is cheap to run in other ways, insurance and servicing particularly, but on fuel it is only at best, competitively mediocre, compared to other machinery about these days. I agree with Cyker - a Yaris diesel is a much more impressive car, and is better on fuel. It is a lot dearer to buy though, and that difference buys a lot of fuel.... There are other redeeming features of the Aygo - it has miles more character than a Yaris for example, and the decision to purchase is not just about economy, but in these days of seemingly spiralling fuel prices, I would expect a high tecnology 1 litre car with a light body to do better than 49ish MPG.
  4. I very much doubt that you will get much change from £1000. The paint and materials alone will be at least £250. Most car body shops are dominated my insurance company work now and won't do old-fashioned "cash deals" (a number are even owned by insurance co's!). The guy who does my bodywork said £800-900, but of course subject to seeing the car. It will be more if the door needs to be re-skinned.
  5. Virtually ALL main dealer garages skimp on servicing - not just Toyota. There are complex reasons for this, and it is driven from the top, not at the technician level. Basically to cut a long story short, dealers make bugger all money now from the selling of cars, because they have to invariably give away all their margin (and often more). The way dealers are paid has changed massively over the last two decades, and now most end up receiving little more than a basic handling charge on each car sold, and this does not pay for the glitzy showrooms and big sites, never mind the staff within them. No, they make their money from the servicing. And the more cars you can get through in a day, the more money you make from each technician. Once the technician's wages are paid, all of this money is pure profit. For this reason, all main dealers are focussed on spending the least possible time on a car. Some years ago, I was peripherally involved in the gathering of hidden camera evidence of this for a well-known TV programme. Some of you may remember the programme, which caused a sensation. In one case, technicians deliberately broke items on a car, so that the customer would have to pay to have them replaced. The items were carefully chosen to extract maximum labour charges from the customer. Please don't put your heads in the sand and say, "not at my garage - always been excellent to me, blah, blah, blah". This stuff goes on, and it goes on to a greater or lesser extent everywhere. You have to protect yourself. I always mark service items on my cars with a cheap UV pen, of the type used for marking electrical equipment. I then have evidence to challenge the garage when bits are not changed. I also take photos of the position of nuts and bolts and clips etc, prior to putting my car in. When presented with the evidence they never refute it, as I always then threaten to go to the manufacturer and the media. If the work concerned is anything to do with brakes, you will see true panic in action when you confront them with evidence that it has not been done. I have been charged for new brake pads on four different occasions, all with different manufacturers, and in each case I was able to demonstrate with photographic evidence that they had not changed the parts. Because it involved a safety related item (brakes) I took private legal actions in all four cases, and all four settled out of court, after the manufacturers intervened. One subsequently lost their franchise after it emerged that this was 'standard practice'. There are of course, car dealers who are conscientious, thorough and honest. Unfortunately, they are very much in the minority, and even well-run good businesses can have bad eggs within their basket. I always treat anything a garage says to me with the utmost caution; and basically start from the premise that it will be untrue. This practice has never done me wrong.
  6. daveyjp, I think you are getting confused with the Extra Urban figure in the EU tests. Yes, this is as you say a genteel A road replication. The combined figure is however, an amalgam of the Urban and Extra Urban figures, weighted according to the length of the respective tests. In other words it DOES include an element of urban driving. I fully appreciate that the EU tests are carried out under stringent laboratory conditions; but it remains a fact that whilst some vehicles get reasonably close to the official figures, others are miles off. I would put the Aygo in the latter category. Aygogummy I do not know how many car ownership experiences you draw from. I have owned over 100 cars and have extended driving experience of at least another 30. Of course all cars are affected by the type of driving encountered, but I am trying to say that the Aygo is (from my experience of lots of cars) more affected than most in this regard. To give you a real world example, my Mercedes will cruise on the motorway at 70mph with the cruise control engaged and will do over 60mpg at that steady speed. I have repeated this many times. This is the same mpg that you claim to get from your Aygo crawling in among the trucks at 60mph. The reason for this is that the Merc is running more efficiently than the Aygo at that speed. Reduce the speeds to 50mph and the position would be reversed. In an urban environment I actually think the Aygo gives pretty decent economy at around 45mpg, but I expected this to be nearer 60 on the motorway. It is not though - unless as you say, you are prepared to dramatically reduce speeds. You must also remember that the Aygo suffers because it is not equipped with the stop start system that is standard on the iQ, (and on the Aygo in Japan). This costs the Aygo at least 10% in urban driving. I would imagine that the new model when it comes will have this refinement as standard. Small cars with small engines are always the most affected by changes in style and type of driving. Witness Autocar's recent test of the Fiat 500 Twin air (claimed mpg in the 70's) where they averaged 33mpg. A week later a different tester managed 42mpg average by driving carefully, and by driving intentionally and deliberately economically raised this further to over 53mpg average. In real world usage, they all agreed that the standard 1.2 engined model would be significantly more economical. My Aygo replaced an 11 year old Ford Ka. That car had much more torque courtesy of its 1300cc engine. I averaged 40-45mpg in that car, and I average 45-50mpg effectively in my Aygo. Given that the driver and the type of driving are the same, I would have expected ten years of technology to have made a bigger difference, but it has not. The fuel consumption remains for me the single most disappointing aspect of the car.
  7. The problem here is that, as much as how you as an individual drive; the Aygo is also very susceptible to the type of driving you do. I have now had three fill ups in mine and they have averaged respectively, 50, 46 and 51 mpg. I consider this very disappointing and it is so far away from the officially claimed 62.8 combined cycle as to warrant investigation under the Trades Descriptions Act. I know that I am not heavy footed - my other car, a two tonne 200bhp, automatic diesel Mercedes averages just under 47mpg, against a claimed figure of 50.9mpg (combined). What I have discovered is that, more than any other car I have owned, the Aygo is very variable on fuel economy according to the type of driving. They actually don't give very good motorway fuel figures, unlike most bigger cars, I assume because the little engine is working very hard. That is, unless you cruise at a ridiculously low speed in amongst the lorries. They give their best fuel figures on a genteel 'A' road run, crusing between 50 and 60mph. In practice, my driving consists of almost none of this - I am either in dense traffic or on a motorway, and my fuel consumption refects this. One of my colleagues at work also has an Aygo, and much of his driving is on fast-ish A roads, and he consistently averages 55-58mpg, and he is rather heavier of foot than me. My worst tankful so far (46mpg) included a lot of motorway work, and although I do not cruise excessively fast, I do try and maintain 70mph. The other thing I have noticed is that the little three pot engine really does not like being laboured in too high a gear, and that this also very adversely affects fuel consumption. The Aygo is comparatively highly geared, which is odd given its very revvy engine, and it really does not like being changed up a gear too early. Labouring uses just as much fuel as ragging a car, and many people do not appreciate that.
  8. Like anything involving the EU, there is huge confusion about DRL's. Cars sold in the EU have to be 'capable of running' DRL's from last month as the poster above says. However, that does not mean they HAVE to run them. The GB governmant argued against mandatory DRL's after terrific lobbying from the motorcycle fraternity who argued (correctly) that DRL's reduce the likelihood of seeing a motorcycle (they currently stand out more because of their mandatory always-on headlamps). As a result of the GB lobbying, the EU then modified the law to say that in order to preserve the visibility of motorcycles, DRL's should not activate the usual car headlamps but should be a different seperate lamp of specified wattage and max/min sizes. Hence manufacturers have split themselves between LED's like the Audi/Porsche/Citroen DS3 solution, and seperate bulbs, usually in the fog lamp unit where fitted like the Fiat 500 and the BMW Mini. DRL's must extinguish when the dipped beam headlamps are turned on and must also extinguish on one side when the relevant indicator unit is lit, if they are located within the same lamp housing as the indicator. There is thus some quite complex circuitry going on in some cars and retro-fitting them is not a walk in the park. Decoding this is not easy. Permanent dipped headlamps are not DRL's and are in fact against the law. DRL's must be a seperate lamp, but do not have to be LED's. In the UK, cars will not have to have them operational on a mandatory basis for another two years, but they have to be capable of having them now, so most manufacturers have just started to put them on as it saves tooling for two sets of lights, with and without. Low volume manufacturers under certain production numbers (Caterham, Morgan, etc) are exempted. The EU originally wanted the law to make it mandatory to retro-fit them to all cars including heaven forfend classic cars (can you imagine how awful that would look); but fortunately thanks mainly to the FBHVC this was headed off at the pass. I would have thought that the new Aygo will be tooled for DRL's, and judging by the Auris and the Prius, Toyota seem to be embracing an LED solution on their cars.
  9. There is no law against using a mobile telephone with an appropriate hands free kit, in this country or anywhere else in the EU. I have never before encountered a hands free set up in any vehicle (whether factory or retro fit) that prevents you adjusting the volume. Usually this is achieved by simply twisting a knob, rather than delving into a sub-menu, which is I suspect why Toyota/TomTom have made it impossible to do whilst underway. Adjusting the volume should be achieveable at the hands free and is no different from adjusting the radio volume. It should not require touching the actual phone at all, which should be able to remain in a pocket or glovebox, or even the boot. Anyone who texts whilst driving deserves to be shot. Next time I want a condescending lecture that completely misses the point I will ask for one thank you.
  10. Madeleine, I had the same problem at first. It took a while to suss out but I got there eventually. You can only adjust the phone settings with the phone actually in use and you cannot do it when moving (sheer idiocy!!!) because a safety nanny inside the system allows no adjustments whilst driving. So, with the car stationary and the handbrake on, turn the system on, wait for the phone to pair then telephone your answer machine (or a friend who does not mind a chat while you adjust your volume). Tap the phone icon in the display and then select volume preferences, adjust volume and then end the call. Done. Hope this helps.
  11. I am now up to almost 800 miles and have completed two long motorway journeys to the West Country and back. Fuel consumption is disappointing, but i am hoping it will improve with miles. My car still awaiting parts to fix the sun visor/headlining rattles - apparently there has been a subtle design change to these components. I have water in a rear light and will get that sorted when they call me back for the sun visor fix. I have written to the dealer and to Toyota UK to request details of the free service plan that my car has come with, but I have not had a response from either so far. The car improves with each journey as a car to drive, and is fantastic in town with good low down urge to exploit gaps, and a tiny turning circle. It is also surprisingly comfortable. It is just a pity that Toyota's dealers are such a mixed bag.
  12. I am happy for you - there is always a nice buzz about getting a new car. I just hope your whole handover/first drive experience is better than mine was. Still, I am a month in now, the car is loosening up nicely and is getting better and better to drive.
  13. There is a facility to have your Shell points converted automatically to Air Miles, if you collect them. Again the collection rate is not great, but it is better than nothing.
  14. The condensation is caused by moisture seeping into the lamp unit, in between the outer lens and the lamp body. This joint has a thin rubber seal and on most modern cars is designed to be tamper-proof. New bulbs are merely inserted from the rear in push and twist type fittings. If the seal is not seated correctly you get condensation of the type described. The dealer is right to change it under warranty as the seals once broken tend to go on leaking. At the face-lift the rear lamp units were changed slightly to try and improve the sealing, but my Aygo also shows condensation when driven in the rain in the nearside rear lamp cluster. My headlamps and the offside rear are not affected. I shall be asking my dealer to replace it when the car goes back to have the sun-visors changed during March.
  15. Owner: Me Age: 45 NCB: 8+ Convictions: None Other drivers: None Year of Aygo: 2011 UK/EU/Jap: UK Colour: Carbon Quartz Gearbox: Manual Location: Bromley, Kent Garaged or drive: Street Insurance Company: Equity Red Star 10 or 12 month policy: 12 Total cost: £261pa , £100 excess. Type of cover: Fully Comprehensive with legal cover. Full UK and European breakdown cover. Modifications: None Value of Mods covered: N/A Claim experience: None
  16. The Mini is within a hairs breadth of the size of a Mark IV Golf. Next time you see a Mini parked up take a good look at the size compared to the vehicles either side of it. You will see that I am correct. The Mini styling is one of the cleverest things about it - the car is actually quite large (and a complete joke compared to the original Mini), but the styling makes the car shrink visually. I agree that inside it is a sort of reverse tardis effect - with a very cramped interior, especially in the rear. The Mini ride quality is only harsh on the ludicrous 17 and 18 inch wheels with rubber band (run flat) tyres. The versions with 15 and 16 inch wheels ride nicely, and rather better than an Aygo. There are some similarities between the Aygo and the original Mini - small road area, room for four but a tiny boot, cheap to assemble, cheap on fuel and servicing costs; cheeky looks. The handling is similarly wheel at each corner chuckable, making them fun to drive. A bit like the original Mini too, they are not good motorway cars though (but they will do it), and the BMW Mini would be significantly different in that regard. Whatever decsion you make, look at plenty of different things and take your time.
  17. The biggest problem with the diesel Yaris is the ludicrous price difference compared to the petrol version, meaning that you have to cover about 25,000 miles a year to ever get back the extra cost in reduced fuel bills. Other than that, it is a fine little car. Remember the Aygo was designed primarily as an urban runabout. It excels at this, and yes, whilst it is perfectly capable of going on the motorway and doing longer journeys, it was not designed with that in mind. Thus on a motorway it can be quite wearing with lots of engine, and especially road noise. The Aygo is also very badly affected by lorry draughts - a consequence of its very light weight. You will also find that taking the cruising speed above 70mph has a drastic negative effect on fuel economy. If you choose to cruise at 80, which the car is perfectly comfortable doing, then you may as well get a bigger more comfortable car as the Aygo's fuel consumption will then struggle to make 40mpg. On the other hand, if you commute is mainly traffic queues and a bit of fast A and B road work, the Aygo will be in its element, and you will see an easy 50-55mpg, possibly more dependent on your driving style. Although I have not been on this board for that long, it is already evident to me that there are a great many folk on here who look at their Aygo's with very heavily rose tinted spectacles on. I do not - I am a realist. It is a great little car, and huge fun to drive - at what it was designed to do. If you want to do other things or if your driving requires a lot of motorway work, there are other cars out there that will be much better suited, and will still achieve a significant reduction in your running costs.
  18. For info, the current Yaris deal puts you in a brand spanking new special edition model (sat-nav, bluetooth, iPod connection, air con, leccy everything, alloys, fogs) for £119 per month and includes 3 years free servicing. You will not finance an Aygo (any Aygo) for that.
  19. Welcome Victoria. This may be too late but given that you are coming from a BMW Mini (itself actually a Golf/Astra sized car), I suggest that you also look closely at a Yaris. There is very little difference in running costs compared to an Aygo, but a huge difference in comfort, quietness and space. In addition, with a new model Yaris imminent, you can actually finance a new current model Yaris for less than an Aygo at the moment with the deals they are doing. There is nothing wrong with an Aygo, but I suspect that after your Mini you may find it excessively small, noisy and bouncy. That's all.
  20. I agree that it is a disappointment that all six speakers are in the front of the car. How anyone can say that speakers in the rear parcel shelf look "boy racer-ish" and then suggest the fitting of a chav bin in their boot is beyond me! The Aygo's luggage boot is compact enough without further intruding into it with one of those ghastly contraptions. One of the main reasons the factory sub-woofer solution is designed to fit under the seat. I have discovered that it is possible to fit speakers into the rear door cards. You can then buy matching grey covers from Toyota that match the front door speakers. They are then indistinguishable from factory fit. I am not a great music person (I mainly listen to audio books on longer journeys, and the radio on shorter ones); but my children (both teenagers) are. This is probably the route I will go, if at all.
  21. Sorry but this is utter rubbish. Please ask someone who works in the industry what exactly supermarkets are buying - you may be surprised. The BS is a minimum standard not a maximum. As I said there is a shedload of material on the web about this- please take the time to look, you may be in for a shock. My pal, who owns an independent garage/workshop estimates that over a third of his turnover nowadays is due to people putting cheap supermarket fuel in their cars. Ask yourself why it is cheaper..... Yes this is true, but fuel economy is equally influenced if not more so, by the type of driving you do. The person who has a commute along decently flowing A roads, averaging 45-60mph will alway get better fuel economy than the person who crawls in nose to tail traffic, no matter how economically the town driver tries to drive. There will always be folk who get better fuel mileage because of the nature of their driving. My "combined cycle less 15%" rule of thumb is only that - a merged average. However it was uncannily accurate on a fleet of over two thousand very different vehicles. Driving economically is an art, and has as much to do with braking economically as accelerating economically. Conservation of momentum is everything. Some astounding results are possible if you make every effort, though driving super-economically isn't particularly comfortable for passengers, especially on twisty roads as you have to try and keep momentum through bends by slowing as little as possible; resulting in some quite hysterical cornering speeds. During the last fuel crisis, I managed to achieve over 50mpg on a run back from southern France in a fully laden five seater, automatic, petrol driven Mercedes C Class Estate. It was a very long journey though.
  22. Fuel consumption varies wildly dependent on a huge numbers of factors - type of use (town, motorway, A road, etc), style of driving (heavy on throttle and brake = poor consumption, etc). Choice of fuel can make a difference also. You should NEVER use supermarket fuel in a modern close tolerance engine - any saving at the pumps is offset by the damage done to your engine. There is plenty of information about this on the internet if you look about. Use a good quality fuel such as Shell or BP. Generally, a rule of thumb that never tends to be far wrong is that, assuming a mix of driving conditions, average fuel consumption for just about any car is roughly 15% less than the manufacturers "combined cycle" figure. In the case of the Aygo, that is (for the current model with manual transmission), 62.8 mpg. By the rule of thumb therefore, you should expect around 53mpg - as you can see, not far off. Modern engines, being manufactured to very close tolerances, take a good few miles to give of their best performance and economy wise. Most modern car engines have not fully bedded in until about 6-8,000 miles have been covered, and with some modern diesels it can be twice that figure. My first tank in my Aygo Go! achieved bang on 51 mpg; but I would expect this to improve as the engine loosens; and then to settle at around 53-55 mpg.
  23. Some clarifications. The data I have seen definitely shows a greater history of leaks to the interior on three door variants. Leaks to the boot area are equally dispersed between three and five door. "Quality" falls into two areas where cars are concerned - quality of the product, and quality of service by the dealer. The C1/107/Aygo are all the same quality of product. Stands to reason as they are essentially the same car made in the same factory by the same people using the same parts and procedures. With any mainstream manufacturer there will be a variance in the quality of service received at the retail end. Sadly, unlike years ago, Toyota's general dealer satisfaction rating in the UK (and Europe for what it is worth) is no better than "average". This is on a par with Peugeot and Citroen. However, as the previous poster acknowledged, there is a wider variation with Peugeot/Citroen dealerships, such that some are "very good" and others "very poor". There seems to be a greater uniformity with Toyota dealerships, though my own experiences with my dealer were abysmal; and I will not be returning to them even though they are less than five minutes from my house. Unfortunately, because the same dealer group owns and runs the four closest Toyota franchises to me it means I will have to travel quite a long distance for my servicing and maintenance to avoid them. So be it. As it happens, one of my other vehicles is a Citroen, also bought new. My local Citroen franchise has the second highest customer staisfaction rating of all Citroen dealerships in the UK, and they thoroughly deserve it - my experience there has been the best I have ever received from any motor dealer ever. For anyone who cares, the manufacturer with the highest dealer satisfaction ratings in the Uk is Skoda. Some have suggested that this is because many Skoda dealers were and are small independently owned businesses rather than part of a large dealer group. Personally, I believe there is some truth in this. What I am getting at is that, at the retail level, you can have a good or bad experience entirely due to your dealer, whatever the make of vehicle you have chosen. This does not imply anything fundamentally wrong with the quality of the product itself. In the case of the Aygo/C1/107, the product is a small car deisgned predominantly for urban running about (but which will happily cope with longer trips if required) that can seat four adults in reasonable comfort in a small road area, whilst being cheap to insure/fuel/service/etc. It hits all of these buttons - luggage accommodation was secondary to the designers, and if it is not big enough, don't buy one. Other manufacturers have joined the fray intorducing other vehicles (Alto, Pixo, i10, etc). I test drove all of these. For me, for what they were designed to do, they were actually all good cars and, if I am honest, quite difficult to seperate. The motoring press would tell you that the i10 is the best all-rounder in this class, and I would not disagree with that analysis. However, its the old head and heart thing again - for me the Aygo had a bit more "character", mainly due to the offbeat thrum of the 3 pot engine. I have a history of liking quite quirky cars, and this character endeared the Aygo to me. So I bought one. In my opinion looking at its market rivals, is the Aygo a better quality product? To be honest no. Is the dealer experience any better? in my experience definitely not, and nationally the highest dealer satisfaction rating of its rivals is Hyundai. Do I like the car though? Of course. It has its faults (some infuriating) but overall my initial assessment that it has character has held true. This is all of course like many things, down to personal choice. I prefer a car than is a bit more than an appliance. I like something with character. Others may not be so bothered.
  24. Lots of choices here: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-650-0w-20.aspx
  25. The critical thing is the dimensions of the seats themselves. These sort of seats are much bigger physically than the factory seats and may not fit - especially in the width. The universal sub-frames will need adjustment and fabrication as stated above.
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