Poor Starting

[pal1]

Hi

Help Please

I have a 03 D4D 2.0ltr with 70k. When I start the car its a bit like a tractor, I have to keep the starter motor turning it over for about 30 seconds then it will slowly start to catch and start. There is some smoke when it catches on but after that it runs fine. This is the same even when the car is hot, but not quite as bad. There is no problem with the Battery or starter motor.

Right, I have changed the fuel filter, glow plugs are fine, and i have cleaned the injectors with the petrol additive with no success.

Don't want to go to Mr T unless its absolutely necessary.

mike

[woodywonka]

Hello had similar problem and had to take car back to mr T here they apparently found a fault in the fuel pump drawing air and the Hdi system had to be flushed hope this makes sense to you because it went right over my head

cheers

Woody

[pal1]

Hi Woody

I suppose it could be fuel pump not giving enough initial pressure until its going, don't know what the Hdi system is though.

mike

[Cyker]

Are you deffo sure it's not the Battery?

My brother's Corolla had a similar problem and we thought it was an injection or glowplug problem but eventually realized it was the Battery, which was otherwise fine but didn't have a high enough amp rating for cold-cranking the hefty 2.0L D4D!

[pal1]

Hi cyker

Defiantly not the Battery or starter motor. cranking is not the problem, its turning it over at a very good rate, it just wont catch on, and then when it does its like, 'du du duu duuu duuu duuuu then vroom !!! know what i mean ??

mike

[Cyker]

Yeah, that's what my brother's one did too!

Cranking sounds okay but it sort of splutters a bit before catching and then suddenly VROOM!

On a slight tangent, how big is the Battery in the diesel RAV?

The one in my Yaris 1.4 D4D is fairly normal sized, but the one in my brother's Corolla 2.0 D4D (The 'proper sized' one) looks like it came out of a truck

Before we changed it, it had one about the same size as my Yaris.

Felt a bit silly as we'd been wondering why the Battery bay was so spacious!

[anchorman]

Before starting it, pump that black plunger on top of the fuel filter until it goes stiff. It could be fuel starvation, air or simply, the fuel running back to the tank.

I take it the engine runs perfectly after starting?

[pal1]

Hi Anchorman.

I have tried that a few times A, makes no difference, it does go stiff after a couple of pumps !!!(I won't be rude) but has no effect on the starting (engine hot or cold) car does seem a bit sluggish below 1500 rpm. When it does start there's a bit of black smoke, but then it will run all day.

Mike

[igormus]

Hi

Help Please

I have a 03 D4D 2.0ltr with 70k. When I start the car its a bit like a tractor, I have to keep the starter motor turning it over for about 30 seconds then it will slowly start to catch and start. There is some smoke when it catches on but after that it runs fine. This is the same even when the car is hot, but not quite as bad. There is no problem with the battery or starter motor.

Right, I have changed the fuel filter, glow plugs are fine, and i have cleaned the injectors with the petrol additive with no success.

Don't want to go to Mr T unless its absolutely necessary.

mike

OK firstly check with SCV mounted on the pump -- whether their solenoid coils resistance is as specified in the manual ?? secondly -- check with feeding voltage to the same SCV. I do not consider a wrong fuel filter assembly now etc. In third -- when you say :" changed etc etc " -- you quite understand we can only relay on this and really far from your car to evaluate whether or not all is correct. Your possible enemies now are:

- SCV;

- Air in fuel injection circuit;

- Poor injection;

- Poor SCV feeding voltage (???)

Check with the above and come back

CHeers/Igor

[pal1]

Hi igormus

Thanks will check SCV, problem has now got far worse, had to bump it this morning and I have black smoke when revved.. Feels like its running on 3 cylinders under 2000 rpm then it takes off. If i stop at say a junction and pull off, black smoke again, and it wants to stall, Yet it ticks over fine and will run all day at 80.

mike

Not sure where the pump is, you don't mean the filter head do you ? and what should the resistance be if anyone can help please.

[igormus]

Hi igormus

Thanks will check SCV, problem has now got far worse, had to bump it this morning and I have black smoke when revved.. Feels like its running on 3 cylinders under 2000 rpm then it takes off. If i stop at say a junction and pull off, black smoke again, and it wants to stall, Yet it ticks over fine and will run all day at 80.

mike

Not sure where the pump is, you don't mean the filter head do you ? and what should the resistance be if anyone can help please.

i am inclined to either SCV or poor injection cos you have detone (on three).

i feel you have an over fueling when started and one cylinder tries to stop/brake engine because a big portion of diesel is still being burnt.

try and come back/Igor

[pal1]

Hi Anyone

Checked resistance through SCV valves both are the same at about 2.0 oms, slightly above the 1.5-1.8 but car is quite warm.

but my problem is starting and rough running up to about 1500 rpm then higher revs no problem, most other SCV symptoms seem to be lack of top end power and engine light, I get neither. plus loads of black smoke, exhaust is really sooty too.

mike

[igormus]

Hi Anyone

Checked resistance through SCV valves both are the same at about 2.0 oms, slightly above the 1.5-1.8 but car is quite warm.

but my problem is starting and rough running up to about 1500 rpm then higher revs no problem, most other SCV symptoms seem to be lack of top end power and engine light, I get neither. plus loads of black smoke, exhaust is really sooty too.

mike

starting issue:

the injectors must to spray diesel with charactered diesel fog especially under such pressure subject to injector tip is leak proof. but once an extensive diesel is poured -- the amount of poured fuel can not be ignited once touched the tip of glow plug even with hot temp but continue to vapor diesel unless the physical compression ignites it after several revolutions of crankshaft -- this might be your issue with starting. before going further you have to know how do injectors live. cheers/Igor

[anchorman]

Can you see the link moving on the turbo if you get somebody to rev it?

After that I think I might suspect the SCVs too.

[pal1]

Thanks Anchorman.

The link on the turbo moves OK, I took out the SCV vales and had a look and re tested them, resistance is OK and they both 'click' when energized.

If I try and explain the symptoms a bit more it might help. When you try and start (hot or cold) its a bit like one of those old dumpers starting up, spins it round fast enough and then after about 15 seconds it will slowly start to catch, and then start, there's plenty of black smoke as you rev it a bit and then its smoking a bit on tick over but it ticks over nicely. When I drive it feels like 3 cylinders up to about 2000 rpm then it drives perfectly. I always have black smoke though, and if I give it a proper rev, clouds of it.

From reading the SCV problem symptoms, (engine light on and poor top end power, mine dosent have this, I am reluctant to spend the £400 and odd on two new ones if this isn't the problem.

Mike

[Cyker]

EGR valve jammed maybe?

[pal1]

Hi cyker

EGR valve moving OK.

Mike

[anchorman]

Can you see any of the turbo pipes move or suck flat when you rev it? It certainly sounds like the wrong combination of fuel and air. You may have to get Mr T to check out the EDU and injectors.

[pal1]

Can you see any of the turbo pipes move or suck flat when you rev it? It certainly sounds like the wrong combination of fuel and air. You may have to get Mr T to check out the EDU and injectors.

[pal1]

Hi A

Thanks for help everyone, car going into a reputable diesel garage here in Huddersfield, blowing air into header tank with loads of pressure so seems like head gasket or cracked head. garage quoted £700 approx so fingers crossed its just the gasket, they seem sure it is.

mike