Auris 2.2 - Engine Failure

[Charz1001]

I've been reading up about the problems with this engine since last night so realise this should come as no surprise to you all:

I've just (4 weeks ago) purchased a Toyota Auris 2.2 SR180 (08 plate). Yesterday i experienced overheating of the engine, booked the car straight in with a Toyota dealer to find out the car has suffered engine failure.

Even more discerning is the fact they've now said according to there records the engine has already suffered failure once before and has been replaced with a reconditioned engine by themselves. The gentleman was really helpful but advised us that taking it to Toyota will almost certainly result in refusal for them to put right due to incomplete service history.

The car was due a service 4,000 miles or 4 months ago (whichever came first) and because this was not done he said they would look at it as mistreatment. The issue with this is that the engine was replaced on 33,000 miles, it had a service at 43,000 (inter) and then a full service at 44,000.

No clue as to why it was done within a 1000 miles because we didn't own it but this is hardly mistreatment, the car is on 58,000 miles now. We are in a bind what to do, We have asked for a refund from the dealer but he has refused but has offered to repair the car but would use his own garage and not the Toyota dealer - altho he is now in contact with Toyota himself trying to come to a soloution. (we are not keen on this option purely because if Toyota cant fix there own engine properly surely no one else can?)

I am unsure whether to push it with the dealer under the sales of good act (the dealer also happened to personally own the car since march 2013 - meaning they were responsible for it not being serviced and invalidating the warranty) or fight Toyota on the basis that the car has already had the fault repaired once (despite there being a 2 year gap on the service history then) so why should this time be any different. Clearly the fault lies with them for the poor manufacturing of the engine and the bulletin issued states the car should be reasonably well maintained nothing about FSH, its basically had 3 full services and 2 inter services.

Any advice/help would be grateful.

I don't know alot about cars so i apologise in advance for my lack of terminology etc.

Thanks in adavnce

Char!

[Raistlin]

Hi, Welcome to the club... Enjoy

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Hopefully you should get some good advice about your problem as we have a very knowledgeable bunch of folk on this site.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Hello Charmaine - welcome to Toyota Owners Club.

See the following topic: http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/132178-charliefarlies-guide-to-the-toyota-2ad-diesel-engine-and-its-issues/

You need to appreciate that the 7 year warranty extension is offered by Toyota as goodwill, and not as a right.

The fact that the car underwent two services at 43,000 and 44,000 is a red herring.

Toyota allow 1,000 miles or 1 month leeway in their servicing schedules, so as you have exceeded this leeway by 3,000 miles, you have not, in Toyota's view, serviced the car in accordance with the Toyota servicing schedules, and not reasonably maintained it.

Your contract of sale lies not with Toyota, but with the supplying retailer, so your only regress is to pursue the supplying dealer either under whatever warranty they supplied, or under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, or, if you bought the car on hire purchase, through the Supply of Goods Implied Terms Act 1973.

[buklau111]

One of my family member actually left the car 4,500 miles out of service time and serviced it and Toyota dident care. They said its fine and that the car is still in warranty.

[Charz1001]

Thanks for your quick response, I think that's the route we are going to go down but already knowing our dealer has no intention of refunding us really is a kick in the teeth.

I spoke to a solicitor to get a legal advice and he thinks we have a good stance to reject the car for a full refund.

Does anyone have any idea/experience of whether this problem is a gradual build up leading to it failing or whether it could have been perfectly fine when he sold it to us and then within 4 weeks completely failed? Obviously it's with the dealer to prove the fault wasn't present when he sold it to us!

I realise this is probably hard to tell without more details. The car is still actually drivable, it's overheating and the coolant pressure is extremely high n just draining fast but Toyota have diagnosed it as engine failure.

Thanks again

Char!

[FROSTYBALLS]

One of my family member actually left the car 4,500 miles out of service time and serviced it and Toyota dident care. They said its fine and that the car is still in warranty.

We have different circumstances here.

Yes the dealer your family member uses may be lenient as regards the leeway in service intervals, but the same may not be the case should a major fault occur, Toyota examines the service history, and uncovers the discrepancy.

Additionally, the new car warranty is different to the goodwill warranty Toyota provided on these engines.

[Heidfirst]

Thanks for your quick response, I think that's the route we are going to go down but already knowing our dealer has no intention of refunding us really is a kick in the teeth.

I spoke to a solicitor to get a legal advice and he thinks we have a good stance to reject the car for a full refund.

Does anyone have any idea/experience of whether this problem is a gradual build up leading to it failing or whether it could have been perfectly fine when he sold it to us and then within 4 weeks completely failed? Obviously it's with the dealer to prove the fault wasn't present when he sold it to us!

I realise this is probably hard to tell without more details. The car is still actually drivable, it's overheating and the coolant pressure is extremely high n just draining fast but Toyota have diagnosed it as engine failure.

Thanks again

Char!

Afaik the dealer is still responsible if the car was bought from them only 4 weeks ago (iirc PartsKing said something like a dealer can't sell a used car with less than 2 months warranty?).

How many miles have you driven it in the 4 weeks?

Imo these engines develop the problem & there are usually signs - they don't just go from perfect to a very obvious problem.

Also afaik Toyota say that the only fix is a replacement (there isn't enough spare material to skim) & they are not selling the warranty replacement engines separately - that means buying a new engine at something like £5000. So how is the used dealer going to fix it if the manufacturer says it can't be done?

[Raistlin]

To be honest, Its Toyota's fault. Its not this new owners fault, Toyota must of known about it, if not they should check their cars before selling. Also the person mensions Toyota had the car over its service period interval, now thats clearly Toyota's fault.

Sometimes you waste bandwidth, I have never heard so much tosh... Put your brain into gear and read the post before replying

[Heidfirst]

To be honest, Its Toyota's fault. Its not this new owners fault, Toyota must of known about it, if not they should check their cars before selling. Also the person mensions Toyota had the car over its service period interval, now thats clearly Toyota's fault.

read it again - he didn't buy it from a Toyota dealer so it isn't Toyota's fault.

[FROSTYBALLS]

To be honest, Its Toyota's fault. Its not this new owners fault, Toyota must of known about it, if not they should check their cars before selling. Also the person mensions Toyota had the car over its service period interval, now thats clearly Toyota's fault.

There is nothing in the original poster's post to say the selling dealer was a Toyota dealer, in fact, as he intends using his own garage to repair the car, one has to assume they are not a Toyota dealer.

[Uncle Buck]

As stated before, the only real redress lies with the garage you bought the car from - as it's entirely possible they knew the car was due a service & this led to the resulting engine failure. At the very least it wouldn't have helped being 3k overdue .....

[Charz1001]

As above states he is an independent dealer - not Toyota.

I think we've done about 1000 miles (maybe slightly less)in the month as I work over 25 miles away. There was small signs from the start but to be honest they were small. I noticed a puddle under the car but weren't sure about whether it was there before I parked my car and I noticed some steam/smoke coming from exhaust but it was on 2 occasions and I didn't think much about it. Kicking myself now.. But I am woman with very little car knowledge.

[Awebb180]

The puddle was probably the air con drain, was it next to the passenger front wheel. I would just go down the route of rejecting the car, there are plenty more about

Alex

[Charz1001]

Thank you! I guess I have a fight on my hands. Can't thank you all enough for your advice x