Top Spec Low Profile - Impossible

[flappert]

Have had two Toyotas, one Corolla, one Yaris Cross, both Hybrids. Decided I want a top of the range Yaris Cross but with low profile tyres. Out of the question apparently. Do Forumites know of any brand of car that will put smaller tyres on a high spec car? Cannot understand the mentality of dealers. I am a pensioner who loves gadgets but also comfort and quiet.

[Roy124]

2 minutes ago, flappert said:

I am a pensioner who loves gadgets but also comfort and quiet.

Low profile tyres are frequently fitted to top range car, yet low profile and comfort is an oxymoron.

Most chat here suggests comfort and quiet will be better achieved with smaller wheels and larger tyres.  This is said to be especially true for potholed roads.

[Mojo1010]

Think the profile of excel isn't too bad at 215/50/18. Test drive it.  Now the normal yaris excel MK4 is very bad at 205/45/17.

[Bernard Foy]

If a smaller wheel is required and fitted assuming you can afford the cost, it may affect your car warranty and you will need to check that out, and your insurance company will also need to be informed. 

[YarisHybrid2016]

YC Excel wheels are fine. Rides very well.

[Cyker]

Can you clarify what you mean? I have a sneaking suspicion you meant high profile tyres! As in tyres with more bigger sidewall for more cushioning, and smaller rims for less mass.

My Mk4 Yaris came with 17" rims but I didn't want them as they would likely have been damaged and the tyres repeatedly impact-punctured due to the horrible condition of London roads.

I knew the Mk4 Yaris was available with 15" in other countries, and it's in the manual too with recommended pressures and the tyre size, so I sourced a set from a dealer and had them fitted post-sale, and have been running them since. I have declared them to insurers and have had no issue except with MoreThan, who exited the car insurance market not long ago anyway.

I don't know why Toyota are so reluctant to offer more wheel options - Mazda sell the exact same car badged as the Mazda 2 Hybrid, and they offer 15, 16 and 17" rims as options. I would likely have gotten that instead had I been looking to buy a few months later than I did!

 

[TonyHSD]

You can always change wheels and tyres after purchase the car and this is ten easier way and you can have a top spec car with more appropriate tyre sizes, as cyker has done it, I did that too. 👍 

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

I don't know why Toyota are so reluctant to offer more wheel options

Because mass production means churning out the same thing all the time and stacking it on shelves for people to buy. Pandering to individual desires adds cost/complexity both in the supply chain and these days in getting type approvals and emissions certifications.

Presumably Mazda are prepared to do it. Are they the same price like-for-like?

[Cyker]

If they were still making them in batches Ford-style then sure, but from what I've been told the cars are made *to order* in the factory, and the parts are already available, as they are used in other markets, so you'd expect it to be just a matter of bolting on the required parts, and wheels are probably one of the easiest things to customize, more so than e.g. the pano roof, which would require a slightly different body, yet they offer that but not the smaller rims!

The fact that they offer larger rims as an option shows there is no practical reason why offering smaller ones isn't possible - It's just something they've deliberately decided not to offer.

I just don't get it, especially as smaller rims would lower their fleet CO2 average - Offering 17 and 18" rims raises the official CO2 a good few points, yet that's what they decided to go with, but with everyone scrabbling to stay under the steadily decreasing fleet CO2 targets to avoid fine, you'd think they'd jump at the chance for some free reduction.

Not sure what you mean like-for-like, but e.g. with the top-spec Mazda Yaris, you can option 15" steels or alloys for extra cost (And, annoyingly, cheaper than what I paid to get them on my Mk4!)

I know the top-spec Mazda 2 is more expensive than the Yaris Excel, but it comes with more stuff as standard (e.g. parking sensors and the HUD, which is (Well, was) and option for the Excel) and even has a few things none of the Toyotas can have (e.g. Wireless charging)

Toyotas instead get 18" rims and GR badges for that cost  

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

but from what I've been told the cars are made *to order* in the factory

Indeed. But Toyota UK has to decide what to order and related to that, what to put in their brochures, etc.

I'm guessing that (eg) doubling the number of options is considered unnecessary (ie. too expensive/difficult) for the UK market, which is heavily loaded toward lease/fleet sales where the managers of those outfits don't give a s**t about your or my personal desires.

It will be different in other markets.

(So in a real sense you can blame all the b*****s who want a new car every two years without (they think) paying for it 😄 )

[SinglePointSafety]

Agree with what's been said - and I think the OP might have been wanting smaller wheels and higher-profile tyres for additional comfort and reduced road noise. There's a thread where I describe my experience of 'garaging' my YC Excel's 18-inch wheels and getting 3rd-party 16-inch wheels with lovely, compliant 65-profile all-season tyres, better ride, less noise, will sell these when I sell the car and put originals back on

In the past we had a Mk3 Yaris from new and at the time it was possible to order it with smaller wheels, which reduced the official CO2 output to just below one of the VED (and IIRC the London congestion charge) thresholds

[Aygolite]

On 11/1/2023 at 6:06 PM, flappert said:

Have had two Toyotas, one Corolla, one Yaris Cross, both Hybrids. Decided I want a top of the range Yaris Cross but with low profile tyres. Out of the question apparently. Do Forumites know of any brand of car that will put smaller tyres on a high spec car? Cannot understand the mentality of dealers. I am a pensioner who loves gadgets but also comfort and quiet.

There's plenty of options to consider when looking at wheels smaller than 18" on the Yaris Cross.

wheel-size.com lists the following tyre and rim sizes for the Yaris Cross. However, 205/65R16 is a rare and expensive tyre size, so if considering 16" wheels, perhaps also look at 215/60R16 or 215/65R16.

205/65R16 6.5Jx16 ET45 5/114.3 60.1

215/55R17 7Jx17 ET50 5/114.3 60.1

215/50R18 7Jx18 ET50 5/114.3 60.1

6.5Jx16 ET45 5/114.3 60.1 steel rim (from Yaris Cross) (215/60R16, 215/65R16)

https://www.oponeo.pl/felga-stalowa/alcar-kfz-9683

6.5Jx16 ET45 5/114.3 60.1 steel rim (from RAV4 2000-2005) (215/60R16, 215/65R16)

https://www.oponeo.pl/felga-stalowa/alcar-kfz-9675

[SinglePointSafety]

What Aygolite said.....(nice post)

Yes, the 205/65 16 tyres are rare and expensive, certainly for all-season: checking with the wheel manufacturer that it was on their 'approved fitment' list I opted for 215/65 16, really pleased with the outcome

I did look for steel wheels - that actually would have been my first choice - but price and availability at the time was an issue, so opted for alloys which were only ~ £20 more expensive per wheel. Some EU suppliers had very good prices for steel wheels but one of the many Brexit 'bonuses' meant they wouldn't ship to the UK. My alloys came from a company in Northern Ireland, who benefit from being both in the UK and also in the EU single market

[Aygolite]

2 hours ago, SinglePointSafety said:

What Aygolite said.....(nice post)

Yes, the 205/65 16 tyres are rare and expensive, certainly for all-season: checking with the wheel manufacturer that it was on their 'approved fitment' list I opted for 215/65 16, really pleased with the outcome

I did look for steel wheels - that actually would have been my first choice - but price and availability at the time was an issue, so opted for alloys which were only ~ £20 more expensive per wheel. Some EU suppliers had very good prices for steel wheels but one of the many Brexit 'bonuses' meant they wouldn't ship to the UK. My alloys came from a company in Northern Ireland, who benefit from being both in the UK and also in the EU single market

mytyres are listing the Alcar 9683 6.5Jx16 ET45 5/114.3 60.1 steel rim for £51.90 each including shipping to the UK.

Alcar steel rims are made in Switzerland, so as you might expect are OE quality.

Alcar 9683 6.5Jx16 ET45 5/114.3 60.1 steel rim

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rims/details?vehicleId=1358834193966056562&rimCode=ALCAR9683

As you can see in the chart below, 215/65R16 has an outside diameter 1.9% bigger than 205/65R16. You can usually get away with 1.5% to 2.0% bigger than standard without problems such as the gearing being too high or the speedometer under-reading.

A 215/65R16 with 6.5mm of tread wear will have about the same outside diameter as a new 205/65R16.

Outside diameter of tyres

205/65R16 672.9mm

215/65R16 685.9mm (+1.9% bigger than 205/65R16)

Vredestein Quatrac 6 215/65R16 98H (Euro label C B 71dB)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m139b0s8008p202133/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Vredestein_Quatrac_6_215_65_R16_98H_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_B_NoiseClass%3A_B_Noise%3A_71dB

[SinglePointSafety]

Good stuff Aygolite, that's useful info - this time last year I was researching wheels/tyres and those steel wheels didn't appear in my searches (or I just missed them....)

Regarding tyre diameter, I used one of the many sites which check the revised speedo reading as a function of tyre choice so was happy that the speedo would not under-read given that speedos are set up by the manufacturers to be optimistic, to varying extents***. Once the new wheels and tyres were fitted, I checked the speedo against GPS and confirmed that the speedo does indeed still indicate higher than reality

I opted for Goodyear Vector 4-seasons tyres because the particular size/variant had an A-rating for rolling resistance. Always a bit of a gamble, but after the wheel/tyre change, a few km into the return journey the improvement in road noise and bump absorption was very noticeable, huge sigh of relief, money wasn't wasted

 

*** Except that... one of my previous cars, a Golf Alltrack, had a speedo that was absolutely accurate at 30 mph, and over-read by only 1 mph at 70. So don't rely on your speedo being optimistic!

[Aygolite]

Here's another interesting non-standard tyre and rim option for the Yaris Cross. As the front brake discs are 282x25mm, 15" rims will probably clear the front brake calipers.

Vredestein Quatrac 5 205/70R15 96T (Euro label C C 69dB) (All-season tyre) (3PMSF)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m138b0s7998p144823/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Vredestein_Quatrac5_Vredestein_Quatrac_5_205_70_R15_96T_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_C_NoiseClass%3A_A_Noise%3A_69dB

Alcar 7580 6Jx15 ET39 5/114.3 60.1 steel rim (from Auris 2007-2018)

https://www.oponeo.pl/felga-stalowa/alcar-kfz-7580

As you can see in the chart below, 205/70R15 has a very similar outside diameter to the three standard Yaris Cross tyre sizes.

Outside diameter of tyres

205/70R15 668mm

205/65R16 672.9mm

215/55R17 668.3mm

215/50R18 672.2mm

[Cyker]

It would be worth checking with your dealer if they can source the right-sized steel rims too - The ones on my Mk4 are Toyota steel rims and they were cheaper than third party ones!

The problem is most dealers only seem to be able to look things up by part number, or by car model and looking at diagrams.

The biggest hurdle I had was you can't get steel rims on a Mk4 in this country, so it doesn't show up on the parts system unless you select a different country that does have them. My attempts to get the part number for the rims was an epic journey worthy of song that nobody could help me with... except for our very own PartsKing!! (Truly worthy of the title!   And I bet he was thinking, Cor, this is so easy, why did those other lot have so much trouble? Welp, you've earned another pie Kingo!  )

 

[SinglePointSafety]

Aygolite's post is another very interesting one ie the possibility of going to even smaller 15-inch wheels and 70-profile 'balloon' tyres, which would be even better for the abysmal roads where I drive, major potholes and other 'features' untouched for several years and thus getting worse.

Just be aware though: when I told my insurance company about the change of wheels to 16-inch, they were totally relaxed because smaller wheels = car less desirable (according to their stats) BUT they did ask if the 16-inch wheels were manufacturer-approved. Which they are, because they're standard fitment in some trim levels in various markets, and the insurance company understood this and were OK. However even if the 15-inch wheels would (just) clear the brake caliper, they're not standard fitment and Toyota might object and nullify the warranty, and the insurance company might also have a problem (any company that can find an excuse to not pay out for a claim, guess what.....?)

Would be interested to know if any YCs in any market are, or can be, delivered with 15-inch wheels?

[skidlid]

On 11/1/2023 at 6:06 PM, flappert said:

Have had two Toyotas, one Corolla, one Yaris Cross, both Hybrids. Decided I want a top of the range Yaris Cross but with low profile tyres. Out of the question apparently. Do Forumites know of any brand of car that will put smaller tyres on a high spec car? Cannot understand the mentality of dealers. I am a pensioner who loves gadgets but also comfort and quiet.

Wifes current car is a 2018 Skoda Fabia TSi in SE-L spec and has 45 profile tyres, the ride is harsh but at least the tyres are quiet. The top spec model, the Monte Carlo has 40 profile tyres, hate to think what they are like.

Skoda seem to have realised their error fitting these and now use 55 profile on the SE-L on the new model.

Only thing that stopped us buying one was the handbrake (no electric one available) which is close up to the passenger seat (set up for LHD) making it impossible for the wife to apply.

We have ordered the Yaris in Design spec, nice 55 profile tyres and a much better ride than the existing Fabia.

The closest to the Yaris Cross would be the Skoda Kamiq but whilst it has nice tall tyres it still has the stupidly located handbrake.

[TonyHSD]

Usually when changing tyres and wheels set ups best to take into account what shows on door label or in the car handbook as options available on different trim levels or similarly weighted cars with different engine set ups. 
Deviations with large margins in tyres sets can and will change the car driving dynamics and behaviour. You may gain something but will lose other things as result.
Toyota hybrids are very efficient cars and more efficient is one car it’s easier and more affected by tyres types and sizes and you can impact drivability and increase fuel consumption. Even only switching to V shaped All season tyres you will immediately lose 3-5mpg in any season. Changes in diameter of the tyre will add to the overall picture. Best way to make the change is to buy a set of new wheels and your preferred tyres  that are standard on other trim levels. For example on your excel Yaris put wheels from design spec Yaris which are the best balance between performance, efficiency and comfort. 👍

[SinglePointSafety]

37 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Even only switching to V shaped All season tyres you will immediately lose 3-5mpg in any season.

When I switched to smaller wheels and all-season tyres (Goodyear with A-class rolling resistance) there was no absolutely no statistically-significant decrease in mpg. But, yes, some all-season tyres I looked at were rated C-class rolling resistance and might give you a detectable degradation in fuel consumption

 

42 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Best way to make the change is to buy a set of new wheels and your preferred tyres  that are standard on other trim levels

Agreed - that's what I did (except 215/65 instead of 205/65 for reasons discussed above)

Given my style of driving, I've not detected any adverse effect of changing wheels/tyres, but YMMV

[skidlid]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Even only switching to V shaped All season tyres you will immediately lose 3-5mpg in any season.

We ran All Season and Winter tyres on 6 cars between 2008 and 2019. We always note our mileage and fuel bought an in that time we did not see any change worthy of note.

We always used wheels from the OEM manufacturer in the approved OEM sizes (either alloy or steel) with the correct tyre size.

Always notified insurers and never changed a single penny.

Since moving house and retiring we have no need for them now, if its bad we stay in.

[Stobie]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:49 AM, Aygolite said:

mytyres are listing the Alcar 9683 6.5Jx16 ET45 5/114.3 60.1 steel rim for £51.90 each including shipping to the UK.

Alcar steel rims are made in Switzerland, so as you might expect are OE quality.

Alcar 9683 6.5Jx16 ET45 5/114.3 60.1 steel rim

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rims/details?vehicleId=1358834193966056562&rimCode=ALCAR9683

As you can see in the chart below, 215/65R16 has an outside diameter 1.9% bigger than 205/65R16. You can usually get away with 1.5% to 2.0% bigger than standard without problems such as the gearing being too high or the speedometer under-reading.

A 215/65R16 with 6.5mm of tread wear will have about the same outside diameter as a new 205/65R16.

Outside diameter of tyres

205/65R16 672.9mm

215/65R16 685.9mm (+1.9% bigger than 205/65R16)

Vredestein Quatrac 6 215/65R16 98H (Euro label C B 71dB)

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m139b0s8008p202133/Vredestein_Tyres_All_Season_Car_Vredestein_Quatrac_6_215_65_R16_98H_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_C_Wet_Grip%3A_B_NoiseClass%3A_B_Noise%3A_71dB

I've used Alcar wheels from MyTyres for years, every time I wanted an equivalent full size spare when I was towing caravans. Only ever had to use them on my SsangYong Korando which had a bad habit of getting punctures.