Yaris Cross electric hand brake

[Auris Geezer]

Another nooby question, sorry!  Is it possible to disable the automatic function of the parking brake?  My car resides in the garage and I prefer to leave the parking brake off when parked thus.

ie, I'd like it to work like a normal handbrake.  Thanks.

Cheers, Trev.

[Chippy01]

If you long press the parking brake switch it will revert to 'manual' mode, meaning you will have to apply and disengage the parking brake via the switch yourself. In this mode, another long press will revert it back to auto.

When we park up, we select N. release the footbrake, let the car settle to rest, slip it into P, and after the parking brake has applied itself we simply press the switch to unset the brake. We only park this way on our drive.
Any other time, we just let the auto park do it's thing.

[Russ Taylor]

As I understand it P puts on the mechanical parking pawl in the transmission and locks the drive and there is no need for “brakes” to be on. 

[Cyker]

We had a few cases of members with the Prius 2 experiencing the parking pawl snapping back in the day, and that was enough for me to not want to rely on it to hold the car!!

 

[anchorman]

It used to be legal requirement to apply the parking brake.   This really is a lot of fuss over nothing.   The parking brake motors are utterly reliable, very fast and seamless and make using them devoid of any thought, everything is done without thinking.  Why unthink it???

[Slartybartfast]

Or even try to re-invent the wheel?

I'm probably in the minority here, but what was wrong with that good, reliable, old fashioned ratcheting lever that applied the rear brakes through cables?

I have never, in many years, ever experienced a snapped cable, failed ratchet etc. with an "archaic" handbrake. Of course, it needs to be used as required to prevent any seizure etc..

Before buying my current car, I test drove two marques which both had electric "handbrakes". Hated them and obviously didn't proceed any further. One (a VW) had automatic door locking. When I asked the salesman what happened and he explained, the test drive went no further than the dealer's carpark entrance!🫢

[Parts-King]

14 minutes ago, Slartybartfast said:

 

I'm probably in the minority here, but what was wrong with that good, reliable, old fashioned ratcheting lever that applied the rear brakes through cables?

 

People didn't apply the good old ratchet lever and cars went downhill all on their own, that's what was wrong with them. Just like people went through windscreens in an accident until we invented seat belts, it's technology and things move on. The handbrake works seamlessly, I don't know what's not to like   

[Cyker]

There are pros and cons for both; The main downsides with the EPB are they need power and the units are more expensive, but on the good side they require zero effort to operate, so good for people with limited mobility/arm strength and now that they're automated it's one less thing to forget to do  

I was quite anti-EPB originally, but now I'm in two minds since they have improved the reliability and automated them (I absolutely would NOT want the one in, say, the Avensis  , but the ones in the new cars seem okay and much more robust)

I think if I was driving a manual I'd still much prefer the handbrake, mainly because you get much more control over it (EPB is just on or off and takes much longer to change states, and is also much harder to synchronize with e.g. clutch use; Even the one in my Mk4 drags for a second if I try to move off at the same time as disengaging it), but in the hybrid the car takes care of the EPB and it integrates well with all the general automatic...ness... so I don't even think about it and leave it to the car to deal with. I can see that being an issue if I went back to a manual car (I just know there is so much stuff I will forget to do because the car does it for me now  ), but that's just something I'd have to deal with.

 

 

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, Slartybartfast said:

One (a VW) had automatic door locking.

Most cars have this nowadays, but it is a Marmite feature and can usually be disabled in settings if you want. Did you ask about that?

[hind]

15 minutes ago, Cyker said:

mainly because you get much more control over it

especially when it's customized to your needs? 😄 

[RonYarisX]

24 minutes ago, Cyker said:

There are pros and cons for both...

Absolutely. No one solution is perfect. I personally prefer electronic simply because it comes with autohold which makes life easy whilst driving around town. If I have an auto transmission then why not an auto brake too?

I don't know Toyota that well but I can say that especially with VW products, the electronic brake can often lead to premature wear, especially if you leave your car for extended periods of time in the wet. So with that in mind, like the OP, I too prefer to leave the handbrake off when the car is on level ground.

My question to OP is why do you want to leave brake off when in garage? Assuming Toyotas don't suffer from premature wear, and the garage doesn't have a roof thus letting in rain, what's the advantage of leaving the parking brake off?  They used to leave it off on manual brakes to lessen the tension on the brake cable, but it's an electronic brake so I'm just curious as to why you want to leave it off.

[MikeSh]

9 minutes ago, RonYarisX said:

what's the advantage of leaving the parking brake off? 

Garages can still be pretty damp in winter especially if a car is put away wet. (Stuff like cardboard stored out there can be quite soft and needs bringing in the house for some hours before (eg) using it to make up a parcel.)

I leave our parking brakes off as the cars often aren't used for several days and although the discs don't rust visibly the brakes still tend to 'hang' if left applied.

[RonYarisX]

4 minutes ago, MikeSh said:

Garages can still be pretty damp in winter especially if a car is put away wet. (Stuff like cardboard stored out there can be quite soft and needs bringing in the house for some hours before (eg) using it to make up a parcel.)

I leave our parking brakes off as the cars often aren't used for several days and although the discs don't rust visibly the brakes still tend to 'hang' if left applied.

As I say I don't know Toyotas that well but that's the first I've heard of an issue. How many owners have complained about electronic brake issues attributed to that?

[Cyker]

It's basically for the same reasons people recommend handbrakes don't be used in winter and cars just be left in 1st gear - worry the parking brake might stick or bind together.

The EPB clamps with a lot more force than a regular handbrake (Which is one of the reasons manufacturers switched to them when they switched to rear discs - It's very hard to make a reliable normal handbrake that can clamp with enough force to a disc without requiring the driver to be related to Geoff Capes or Eddie Hall  ), and because you can't do the bump/rock trick to release them like you can do with a manual handbrake, some people try to reduce the risk of them freezing or rusting onto the disc by just not using them. And because drum brakes are shielded but disc brakes are not, EPBs can be more susceptible to this sort of thing if they're left for extended periods.

The reason I don't do that and always use the handbrake/EPB is not using it just puts all the load on the parking pawl, and while I'm sure they've beefed it up since the Prius Mk2, if it does ever snap it will practically write-off the car because AFAIK the whole hybrid drive assembly would need to be replaced as they won't repair just that one part since it's deep inside where the power split device that links MG1, MG2 and the ICE together lives.

I also think that, like many things in the car, regular use  keeps the EPB healthy as it keeps the lubricant spread out and doesn't let corrosion build up in one area - If you don't ever use it, that increases the chance of a problem when you eventually do use it, as the internal threads will probably be crustified where the lubricant has just been sitting there drying out.

[Paul john]

27 minutes ago, Cyker said:

It's basically for the same reasons people recommend handbrakes don't be used in winter and cars just be left in 1st gear - worry the parking brake might stick or bind together.

The EPB clamps with a lot more force than a regular handbrake (Which is one of the reasons manufacturers switched to them when they switched to rear discs - It's very hard to make a reliable normal handbrake that can clamp with enough force to a disc without requiring the driver to be related to Geoff Capes or Eddie Hall  ), 

The main reason why the “hand brake” is under your foot on a Gen4 prius.

As your leg pushing down applies much more force than your wrist pulling up. 

[TonyHSD]

There are times that using parking brake manually is better or not using it at all. All mentioned above. Automation it’s everything these days but everything automatic it’s not always the best solution. 
Similarly to using hvac in auto settings, in some cases its not the best option and this why these systems has override function.
When parking at slopes , high hills areas for example it is much better to engage the parking brake while the gear selector is in N position, then release foot brake and then select P and then turn off the car.
Then after when start again and try to move of the line you can select D so much easier and without any clunks. 
 

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Paul john said:

The main reason why the “hand brake” is under your foot on a Gen4 prius.

As your leg pushing down applies much more force than your wrist pulling up. 

... you know what, I always wondered about why they did that, I hadn't put those things together! In hindsight that's so blindingly obvious I don't know how I didn't twig that before!  

 

[MikeSh]

4 hours ago, RonYarisX said:

As I say I don't know Toyotas that well but that's the first I've heard of an issue.

Not just Toyotas by any means. It's never been a big issue for me. They don't seize or jam, it's just a bit alarming when you go to move off and there's a pause then a slight ***** accompanied by a clunk.

The P pawl is safe enough in the garage, but I always use the parking brake when out and about. Whether it would save the pawl if the car got hit while parked I don't know as the brake is on the back wheels and the pawl on the front.

[Auris Geezer]

Many thanks for all the replies.  The reason I like to leave the handbrake/EPB off when in the garage, many moons ago (when I was younger and fitter) I had a 56 plate Skoda Fabia which was garaged for a fortnight.  When I came to drive it, the nearside (only) rear wheel was seized solid, and no amount of rocking it in forward and reverse would free it. The nearside of the car was 3inches from the wall, so I ended up having to jack the car up on a trolley jack and pulling the car sideway to get at it.  I did fix it (rear brake job), but I'm too old to be doing that sort of thing ever again, so just being cautious really.

Don't get me wrong, I like the EPB on the YC, and the hold feature even more, but bear in mind this is my first ever electic brake and it is all new stuff to me.  Thanks again folks.

Cheers Trev.

[anchorman]

13 hours ago, Auris Geezer said:

Many thanks for all the replies.  The reason I like to leave the handbrake/EPB off when in the garage, many moons ago (when I was younger and fitter) I had a 56 plate Skoda Fabia which was garaged for a fortnight.  When I came to drive it, the nearside (only) rear wheel was seized solid, and no amount of rocking it in forward and reverse would free it. The nearside of the car was 3inches from the wall, so I ended up having to jack the car up on a trolley jack and pulling the car sideway to get at it.  I did fix it (rear brake job), but I'm too old to be doing that sort of thing ever again, so just being cautious really.

Don't get me wrong, I like the EPB on the YC, and the hold feature even more, but bear in mind this is my first ever electic brake and it is all new stuff to me.  Thanks again folks.

Cheers Trev.

Some pad materials had a lot of steel in them and would corrode (rust to the disc) if left damp so especially after washing then putting away which I often do.  I sometimes leave my parking brake “forced off” when I go on hols if I remember to do it.  The garage is dry and dead flat so no harm in that case.  Newer pad materials have a lot of man made fibre instead of steel so don’t tend to rust as much.  

[Slartybartfast]

23 hours ago, Slartybartfast said:

I have never, in many years, ever experienced a snapped cable, failed ratchet etc. with an "archaic" handbrake. Of course, it needs to be used as required to prevent any seizure etc..

Parts-King obviously missed this paragraph. I was referring to my experience, not to those who don't know how to operate a vehicle.

 

23 hours ago, Parts-King said:

The handbrake works seamlessly, I don't know what's not to like 

Until it doesn't work and needs gold plated parts throwing at it.

Strange how it's now a "parking" brake and by description that's it's sole intended use. I suppose it could be called a finger brake, not a handbrake?

[Parts-King]

I still call it a handbrake, I'm old school

Sadly nothing is cheap any more, not many braking systems now are manual cable/lever setups, unless a very basic car, we have moved on from that 

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, Slartybartfast said:

Until it doesn't work and needs gold plated parts throwing at it.

I'm not sure a seized or broken mechanical one is that much different given the cost of gold-plated tools and those disposable gold lamé overalls the mechanics wear.

 

2 hours ago, Slartybartfast said:

Strange how it's now a "parking" brake

Has been for decades. (I have a feeling it was common in the US before here.) It's really just people hanging on to the old terminology.

Same with sidelights - they are actually referred to as position lamps in the MoT for example.

[jthspace]

In the U.S. it's usually referred to as the Emergency Brake.  Amazing how many US movies & shows you see where people slam the car into "P" and it's rocking on the pawl, and no handbrake/parking brake/emergency brake use in sight.  Wonder how long their gearboxes last 🤣

[MikeSh]

59 minutes ago, jthspace said:

where people slam the car into "P" and it's rocking on the paw

Yes, I often grit my teeth then. But it does make me wonder if these 'pawls' are a lot beefier than we think - not like a steering lock for example.