Electric vehicles

[Haliotis]

On our bus route Arriva have started to operate a few electric double decker buses,  Coming back home (by car) from a short shopping trip this morning, there was one of these buses broken down just before traffic signals on a busy junction.  We’ll never know, but was it an actual breakdown, or had the Battery run flat?  When (if?) electric vehicles become more prolific, are we likely to regularly see these vehicles immobilised on the highway?  Bad enough for the obstruction that a car can cause; but large vehicles like a bus?  Any vehicle, regardless of its power fuel, can break down of course, but EV vehicles do seem to be attracting bad press for one reason or another.  Is there any credence in the thoughts by some drivers that hydrogen fuel cells will oust the electric vehicle market?

[PCM]

[Cyker]

IMHO, busses should have been the first things to be electrified, and the fact that it's been so slow just reinforces my feeling the tech isn't ready yet.

Busses have massive slack space underneath for batteries, and they don't drive that far in real terms during the day. They are also the #1 polluter in London by a country mile.

They also have dedicated depots for charging, which can also be timetabled, and dedicated recovery services which can just tow them back to the depot.

Running out of charge is very unlikely on busses as their routes are so short even if they were carrying a full load all day it'd be well within the capacity of the massive batteries they use.

Ironically, the problems with them breaking down have mostly been down to software or sensor faults, and as you say is more frequent than you'd expect considering how proponents tout the reliability of EVs!

[CassUK]

I’ve read that Toyota are developing Hydrogen engines and may well be in a position to put them into production as early as 2015. BMW also reported to be going that way.

Lets see what happens but no way I’m buying a grossly overpriced EV with limited infrastructure for long journeys any time soon.

[Parts-King]

15 minutes ago, Cyker said:

IMHO, busses should have been the first things to be electrified, and the fact that it's been so slow just reinforces my feeling the tech isn't ready yet.

Busses have massive slack space underneath for batteries, and they don't drive that far in real terms during the day. They are also the #1 polluter in London by a country mile.

They also have dedicated depots for charging, which can also be timetabled, and dedicated recovery services which can just tow them back to the depot.

Running out of charge is very unlikely on busses as their routes are so short even if they were carrying a full load all day it'd be well within the capacity of the massive batteries they use.

Ironically, the problems with them breaking down have mostly been down to software or sensor faults, and as you say is more frequent than you'd expect considering how proponents tout the reliability of EVs!

The other morning on my way to work ooop norf, in deepest Cheshire, I noticed a new London Bus on the side of the road with hazard lights on. As I got nearer, it was in London bus livery, with a notice on the side, this bus is Electric, keeping London clean (or similar wording) It had broken down, brand new 😂😂😂

[Bper]

A couple of weeks ago we got on a electric bus and sat upstairs, i couldn't understand why they have a fixed screen at the front of the bus upstairs showing the diagnostic data of how the bus electrics is performing. I understood a few things on the screen if you get close enough to read it but don't understand why it's there.

[Mjolinor]

17 minutes ago, Parts-King said:

The other morning on my way to work ooop norf, in deepest Cheshire, I noticed a new London Bus on the side of the road with hazard lights on. As I got nearer, it was in London bus livery, with a notice on the side, this bus is Electric, keeping London clean (or similar wording) It had broken down, brand new 😂😂😂

No,no, no. South of the Mersey = soft southerner.

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

Back in 1959 on my first visit to Middlesbrough with my dad to see family.

There were electric double decker trolley buses running from overhead power lines, quite fascinating for a small boy at the time who had only seen the old Leyland ones at home.

Eeee it's amazing all these new ideas they keep coming up with, electric buses eh?

Whatever next I wonder, 🤔 they'll be telling us soon that cars will have radar systems to keep distance from others.

[Roy124]

Bring back trolley buses.  

I think the old ones were DC but new ones, coupled with onboard batteries,  could run in a hybrid fashion. 

[Roy124]

Twice now at a local filling station I have seen a Tesla at the pumps 😂

[Rhymes with Paris]

6 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Twice now at a local filling station I have seen a Tesla at the pumps 😂

Just getting milk from the shop bit I am guessing, but you never know.

[Bper]

16 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Back in 1959 on my first visit to Middlesbrough with my dad to see family.

There were electric double decker trolley buses running from overhead power lines, quite fascinating for a small boy at the time who had only seen the old Leyland ones at home.

Eeee it's amazing all these new ideas they keep coming up with, electric buses eh?

Whatever next I wonder, 🤔 they'll be telling us soon that cars will have radar systems to keep distance from others.

I thought a trolley bus picked up discarded supermarket trolleys.

[Rhymes with Paris]

Aye, that's a point, I don't know why they were called trolley buses.

Bear in mind though, that on that same trip my cousins took me to see the newly released Ben Hur at the pictures, complete with cider lollies in the foyer, and a Ferrari in the Roman epic film.

And my dad and me returned home on a steam train,main service, not heritage in those days.

So anything could have happened I suppose.

[Roy124]

24 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Just getting milk from the shop bit I am guessing, but you never know.

Spoil sport.  Mind you, there was a YouTube clip of someone trying to find the Tesla filler cap and the forecourt attendant could find it either.

That was in the USA.  Similar to the driver who asked the attendant to top up the oil.  Radiator and oil filler caps look the same,  don't they 🤣

[Rhymes with Paris]

I like the you tube clips where a hose is left in the filler neck, and they drive off, those fuel hoses are made of strong stuff.

Not the clips where anyone is injured though,or the pump catches fire, 😞.

[AndrueC]

3 hours ago, Haliotis said:

Is there any credence in the thoughts by some drivers that hydrogen fuel cells will oust the electric vehicle market?

No. At present almost all hydrogen is manufactured using energy intensive processes. It makes no sense to use electricity to make hydrogen (losing energy in the process) then store that hydrogen and burn it to make the wheels turn (losing yet more energy in that process - about 60%) when you could just store the electricity in a Battery (minimal losses) and send it to the wheels (minimal losses). If we're going to struggle to charge BEVs we don't stand a cat in hell's chance with hydrogen.

It might become a useful fuel for transport (trucks, shipping perhaps) but for cars and vans it's a none-starter.

As for the bad press it's just the usual thing - it makes for a good story. BEVs are already at the point where they are at least adequate for the majority of journeys most people make. The charging situation could be improved (we need to be able to put them on charge every time we park up rather than relying on driving to a charging station).

But if/when solid state batteries finally appear on the mass market it will be game over for petrol and diesel cars.

[CPN]

2 hours ago, Bper said:

A couple of weeks ago we got on a electric bus and sat upstairs, i couldn't understand why they have a fixed screen at the front of the bus upstairs showing the diagnostic data of how the bus electrics is performing. I understood a few things on the screen if you get close enough to read it but don't understand why it's there.

Probably to brainwash you! 😉

[Parts-King]

1 hour ago, AndrueC said:

 

But if/when solid state batteries finally appear on the mass market it will be game over for petrol and diesel cars.

Agreed, and Toyota are on with solid state. They have a Hydrogen bus at Burnaston too 

[Benzowner]

1 hour ago, AndrueC said:

No. At present almost all hydrogen is manufactured using energy intensive processes. It makes no sense to use electricity to make hydrogen (losing energy in the process) then store that hydrogen and burn it to make the wheels turn (losing yet more energy in that process - about 60%) when you could just store the electricity in a battery (minimal losses) and send it to the wheels (minimal losses). If we're going to struggle to charge BEVs we don't stand a cat in hell's chance with hydrogen.

It might become a useful fuel for transport (trucks, shipping perhaps) but for cars and vans it's a none-starter.

As for the bad press it's just the usual thing - it makes for a good story. BEVs are already at the point where they are at least adequate for the majority of journeys most people make. The charging situation could be improved (we need to be able to put them on charge every time we park up rather than relying on driving to a charging station).

But if/when solid state batteries finally appear on the mass market it will be game over for petrol and diesel cars.

How about the process of generating the electricity, moving it from the generating station through several transformer stations to reduce from 400k volts to 240v for charging? That also has a very high cost and low efficiency born out by our very high bills and standing charges. We can then discuss the cost of making rechargeable batteries and their efficiency. We, as yet, do not know how to dispose of these batteries either in an efficient manner, IMO electric vehicles are merely a stop gap to appease the "green" lobby.

[Bper]

1 hour ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Aye, that's a point, I don't know why they were called trolley buses.

Bear in mind though, that on that same trip my cousins took me to see the newly released Ben Hur at the pictures, complete with cider lollies in the foyer, and a Ferrari in the Roman epic film.

And my dad and me returned home on a steam train,main service, not heritage in those days.

So anything could have happened I suppose.

Paul, didn't a Ferrari look out of place in a Roman epic film.

[Rhymes with Paris]

1 hour ago, Bper said:

Paul, didn't a Ferrari look out of place in a Roman epic film.

Well Bob, I didn't notice at the time, being so excited at such decadence of the cinema and cider lollies, and climbing slag heaps.

I only realised this many years later after the invention of the internet and clickbait, you have to look pretty hard on a re run to catch it I think, I never bothered, so maybe it's an urban myth.

[Rhymes with Paris]

Further to the Middlesbrough trolley buses, In 1924 the route was extended to its originally intended point in Eston Sq. with a version of a Tilling-Stevens petrol-electric bus patented by the General Manager of the Board (Mr. J. B. Parker),[4] using a trolley to Normanby and then running on petrol to Eston.

Thanks to Wikipedia for that, I thought I'd have a look and see any more info as I remembered seeing them there.

So ,a hybrid then 100 years ago.

I really don't know how many more of these new fangled ideas I can cope with.

 

[Haliotis]

4 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Aye, that's a point, I don't know why they were called trolley buses.

Buses and trams, which collected their power from overhead cables, had on their top a “trolley pole” which connected to the overhead cables via a wheel, which was called a trolley wheel.  That’s from where the term trolley was derived.

[Primus1]

If I buy an Ev that has a 240v outlet in the boot, then I could plug the cable into this plug, and the other end into the charging port so then it will constantly charge itself, why has no one thought of this before?, is it a conspiracy theory?, perhaps I should move to America and become a citizen, then I could vote for trump he has equally good ideas, remember the bleach to kill Covid.., ?, I should be pm with ideas as brilliant as this…

[Mjolinor]

22 minutes ago, Primus1 said:

If I buy an Ev that has a 240v outlet in the boot, then I could plug the cable into this plug, and the other end into the charging port so then it will constantly charge itself, why has no one thought of this before?, is it a conspiracy theory?, perhaps I should move to America and become a citizen, then I could vote for trump he has equally good ideas, remember the bleach to kill Covid.., ?, I should be pm with ideas as brilliant as this…

I concur. You are displaying all of the symptoms that one sees in people doing similar jobs in Government.