Yaris 1.33 Dual VVTI - when was oil consumption issue fix?

[Cyker]

It kinda makes sense as under power the engine blowby will be pushing the oil back down the cylinder bores, but at idle the cylinder will be in vacuum and instead sucking oil back up the cylinder bore.

That might explain why it was so much worse with me as engine braking factors a lot into my driving style!

[Stevie J]

8 hours ago, Mooly said:

It is your 'right' to be able to ask for what you want when you are looking and choosing somewhere to do the service SO you should ask if they will use 0/20 grade as that is what you prefer. Ask what brand as well.

If they say they don't/can't/haven't got it then you have to decide whether to go ahead or go elsewhere. I wouldn't imagine for a minute Kwik Fit don't carry 0/20 as it has now become common place. Just ask... they won't bite.

Fwiw I ran my Auris on 10w40 for 3 years or so to see if it helped with oil consumption. I asked for that to be used (independent garage) and on the paper work he wrote '10w40 Castrol Ultraclean used at customer request' because it was not the recommended grade. I've now gone back to 0w20 (Duckhams QXR GM) which is a recommended oil and spec for the 1.33L

 

 

I have only owned the car since Feb last year, and before that it was owned by my mother since it was 18 months old. I looked at the receipts she got from the garage that serviced it for her and on the one receipt it said 0W-20 and on another it said 5W-30. The current oil it has in it is 5W-30 which was put in 6000 miles ago. The engine is very free revving, in fact, I'd say a bit too rev-happy and it a bit tappety but they all tend to be. 

I've never had a garage change the oil on my cars in the past, I've always done it myself as I've driven mainly older cars and I would go to the motor factors, buy a filter, some 5W-30 and change the oil myself. But this car has a different style of oil filter to what I'm used to and it also needs the a/c re-gassing, so Kwik Fit will be sorting it all out for me this time. I will ask them to use 0W-20, but if that is what Toyota specify, then it's probably what they will use.

Certain cars are very fussy about oil grade, especially those with internal "wet" cam belts that run like a timing chain, bathed in engine oil, so the oil grade used in them is absolutely critical or the belt will degrade and block the oil strainer with belt residue, but with a timing chain, as long as you use a good quality oil and change the oil every 10K miles I dont think whether its 0W-20 or 5W-30 would be that critical.

[bathtub tom]

6 hours ago, Stevie J said:

 Kwik Fit will be sorting it all out for me this time. I will ask them to use 0W-20, but if that is what Toyota specify, then it's probably what they will use.

Even the main dealers don't bother and just use the cheapest stuff they can get away with. You think someone like Kwik-Fit, with their reputation, will be any different?

6 hours ago, Stevie J said:

 I dont think whether its 0W-20 or 5W-30 would be that critical.

So it's pointless Toyota spending millions on R & D, as you don't think it's that critical?

[Mooly]

12 hours ago, Cyker said:

That might explain why it was so much worse with me as engine braking factors a lot into my driving style!

Same for me but this is definitely where the oil is going, at least in my case. I've done 250 miles the last couple of days including some fast A roads in hilly areas (Shap and Tebay area in the Lake District) and motorway. A few stretches of '3rd gear foot to floor' to just maintain 30mph where instantaneous mpg drops to as low as 18 to 20. 

Oil level appears not to have noticeably dropped and it is checked at home in the garage so its always in the same position. It was around a mm or two below max before and its still the same now. That is with the Duckhams 0/20. Mpg showing an average of 52.6 over 250 miles. Eeeh, that's good. Now on nearly 106k.  

 

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

Even the main dealers don't bother and just use the cheapest stuff they can get away with. You think someone like Kwik-Fit, with their reputation, will be any different?

So it's pointless Toyota spending millions on R & D, as you don't think it's that critical?

To be fair he's right with regard to the chain specifically - The chain doesn't really care about the viscosity - The important things for the chain is lubricity and acid neutralization.

At this time of year you could get away with 5w30 - I don't know about the rest of you but the temperature here has shot up and it's like we skipped spring and went straight from winter to summer!  (If this is spring, I am dreading what summer will be like... I'm a cold weather person!!!  )

However, winter time is when the 0w20 will make a bigger difference as it will flow a lot better than the 5w30 and that's when you risk the accelerated wear, albeit slightly, on the thicker oil.

 

If you buy the oil yourself most garages will be happy to use it, with the exception of main dealers who I guess are contract-bound to use their own oil or something, as they are usually quite adamant they won't use owner-supplied fluids or parts.

 

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Mooly said:

Same for me but this is definitely where the oil is going, at least in my case. I've done 250 miles the last couple of days including some fast A roads in hilly areas (Shap and Tebay area in the Lake District) and motorway. A few stretches of '3rd gear foot to floor' to just maintain 30mph where instantaneous mpg drops to as low as 18 to 20. 

Oil level appears not to have noticeably dropped and it is checked at home in the garage so its always in the same position. It was around a mm or two below max before and its still the same now. That is with the Duckhams 0/20. Mpg showing an average of 52.6 over 250 miles. Eeeh, that's good. Now on nearly 106k.  

 

That's really good - I struggled to get my Mk2 Yaris 1.33 into the high 40s at its worst! I reckon half the fuel charge was being blown past the piston before it could be ignited  

 

[CPN]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

At this time of year you could get away with 5w30 - I don't know about the rest of you but the temperature here has shot up and it's like we skipped spring and went straight from winter to summer!  (If this is spring, I am dreading what summer will be like... I'm a cold weather person!!!

You and me both!! 

 

[Stevie J]

Took mine in for the service today and asked Kwik Fit to put 0W-20 oil in it. Got back home and looked at the receipt and they have only gone and filled it with 5W-40. Can't believe it to be honest. Whilst that would be OK at colder temps, its surely going to be too thick for hotter running temps and cause higher fuel consumption. Not sure if it will cause oil burning as mine is from the era after they sorted out the piston ring fiasco. Should I ring them up and demand they change it for what I asked for or just run with it until the next oil change, I only do 6000 miles on each oil change anyway. To be honest I dont really want to start ringing up moaning as they could think I'm just being petty and I dont want to upset them as I've been using that branch for over 20 years.

Edit - just phoned them anyway and they said they did use 0W-20 it was just printed wrong on the receipt. I really do hope they did as I think it would be damn hard to prove what they used. 

[Mooly]

 

10 minutes ago, Stevie J said:

Whilst that would be OK at colder temps, its surely going to be too thick for hotter running temps and cause higher fuel consumption.

The fuel consumption difference is minimal and I speak from experience as I ran mine on 10/40 grade for three years or so but I had very specific reasons for doing that. I have gone back to 0/20

0/20 on a hot engine will run down the dipstick pretty quickly if you remove it and hold it upside down... not very scientific I know as how quick is quick but it should appear 'thin'. Even cold at todays temperatures and it should still be very fluid.

I can't honestly believe any professional outfit would be using 5/40 for recent/modern cars, 5/30 maybe, likely, but not 5/40.

[Stevie J]

40 minutes ago, Mooly said:

 

The fuel consumption difference is minimal and I speak from experience as I ran mine on 10/40 grade for three years or so but I had very specific reasons for doing that. I have gone back to 0/20

0/20 on a hot engine will run down the dipstick pretty quickly if you remove it and hold it upside down... not very scientific I know as how quick is quick but it should appear 'thin'. Even cold at todays temperatures and it should still be very fluid.

I can't honestly believe any professional outfit would be using 5/40 for recent/modern cars, 5/30 maybe, likely, but not 5/40.

That's what they said on the receipt - I'll add a photo of it. When I just spoke to the guy who dealt with the service, he said he couldnt enter 0W-20 on the system so had to enter what the system specified for my car, ie 5W-40. At the bottom of the invoice as a note, it says what I told them before the service to do the a/c the wipers and the oil grade to be 0W20.

 

[Mooly]

Sounds a bit strange that the system would not recognise 0/20 and even stranger he says their system says 5/40 is the specified grade for your 1.33

You have to wonder based on that if they are using 5/40 for all such vehicles and where that info came from. Its all hassle you can do without but I think its something that needs challenging.  

From 'Money Saving Expert'

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6045586/convince-me-not-to-use-kwik-fit-ats-etc/p2

Unless you can prove to yourself its 0/20 you are always going to wonder.

[Stevie J]

I've sent an email to the centre manager - the guy who dealt with me was not the manager, but on completion of the service he gave me a very polite letter that said they welcome all feedback, good or bad and could I let the manager know by email how they did on today's visit. I said specifically about the 5W-40 oil reference on the invoice and what the Yaris handbook specifies, and that it is not suitable to use 5W-40 in an engine renowned for oil burning issues and oil control rings getting clogged up by the use of oil of the wrong grade. I can only take the word of the supervisor that they filled the engine with what I asked for. 

The last thing I want is my engine which I know is not an oil burner being ruined by the use of oil that is the wrong viscosity. 5W-30 I would have accepted, but the last car I had that used 5W-40 in was a 1999 Nissan Primera with the 2.0 SR20DE engine in it that was a chain driven engine but that did specify 5W-40 as it was more of a performance engine.

I'll see if the centre manager emails me back and what he says about it. From that photo of that post Mooly showed, KF may well be using 5W-40 more than they should be. 

[Mooly]

Just reading your post now... yes see what they say.

I also found this and there is a freephone number at the bottom for customer care.

https://www.kwik-fit.com/servicing/information/what-oil-for-my-car# 

 

[Stevie J]

I just entered my reg into that checker and it came back with 5W-30. lol, so that aint 5W-40 is it, but nor is it 0W-20. I don't think half of the cars taken for service at these large chain garages end up getting the oil the manufacturer specifies. It really is a bit of a confused subject. I feel more sorry to be honest for owners of engines like the Ford ecoboost that uses that rubber timing belt that runs inside the engine and exposed to the engine oil - using the wrong grade on this type of engine results in carnage where the rubber timing belt decomposes and falls apart, leaving bits of rubber to get clogged up in the oil strainer and blowing the engines up.

I prefered the old type of spin on canister oil filter where I could change the oil and filter myself and then I could be sure I was buying the correct oil and for a much cheaper price than paying to have it done, where it is pot luck if you get the right grade for your engine. The 1.33 engine has a different type of filter I dont have the tools to change and it looks like a right pain to do as well, otherwise I would have done it myself. 

I will see what the centre manager says and if I dont like what I hear, I might have to phone customer care - although again, it's the centre's word against mine, and it simply cant be proved if they lied to me and did actually use 5W-40.

I suppose if the worst came to the worst I could go and buy 5 litres of 0W-20, jack the car up, drain the oil and re-fill it with 0W-20, and hope to god they did actually change the filter on the service. 

But like you say, I wonder how many other Yaris 1.33 engines have been given the wrong grade of oil on services that are not carried out by main dealers. I bet half of the garages end up using whatever they've got kicking round in the back, or the cheapest oil they can buy.

[Cyker]

You could tap off a sample and send it to an oil analysis lab if you really want to know e.g.

https://www.millersoils.co.uk/oil-analysis/

 

I'd imagine if it was 5W-40 there'd be a noticeable draggy feeling though - The last car I had that used anything that thick was my old diesel Yaris, and even that they revised to use 5w30  

[Stevie J]

1 minute ago, Cyker said:

You could tap off a sample and send it to an oil analysis lab if you really want to know e.g.

https://www.millersoils.co.uk/oil-analysis/

 

I'd imagine if it was 5W-40 there'd be a noticeable draggy feeling though - The last car I had that used anything that thick was my old diesel Yaris, and even that they revised to use 5w30  

I'll drive it for a bit, and I'm going on a 60 mile round trip on Thursday with some country driving so I'll put my foot down and see if its become lethargic - I know it can get a move on if I give it some welly, and if it now seems slower to accelerate I'll know.

If I'm still in doubt, I'll just have to wait for a nice dry day and change the oil again myself as I used to in the past with my Mk1 and Mk2. If the car seems to behave as it did before and shows no adverse effects, I'll probably just end up running with it, but I'll be checking the oil level every couple of weeks to see if it starts consuming any. It didnt consume any before so if it starts now, then I'll know they used 5W-40.

Not sure I want the expense of sending samples off for analysis, as if it comes back as 5W-40 then I've got to start wrangling with Kwik Fit and also find myself a new MOT centre and service centre and ditch Kwik Fit after using them since 1995. 

[bathtub tom]

Everyone seems to be getting tied up with the viscosity alone (it is important), but not the grade. Toyota specify for the 1NR-FE: API SL, SM, SN, or IL.SAC.

[TonyHSD]

That’s right, oil grades are as important as viscosity and in most cases 0w20 is A5 where 5w40 are A3/B4. I don’t think if 5w40 oil was filled up indeed the owner will notice any difference, no will be any immediate change in oil consumption. The problem with using wrong viscosity or wrong grade oils is that with the time and mileage this oil will break rapidly and get over cooked and dark and start to from sludge and particles that will eventually accelerate oil control rings to become stuck and glaze the cylinder walls.
All that will not happen immediately but with the years mileage. 3 service intervals missed or wrong oil used and all these processes above will likely to be triggered and then there is no way of reverting to new condition, except engine rebuild. I can’t understand why so many dealers, mechanics, private owners and diyers are changing oem specs engine oils. , it’s like you change your automatic transmission  fluid with manual transmission fluid, just because  you think it’s better or because it’s cheaper. Stay stock and use exact match replacement parts and fluids when necessary and your car will last long. 

[Slartybartfast]

13 hours ago, Stevie J said:

I just entered my reg into that checker and it came back with 5W-30. lol, so that aint 5W-40 is it, but nor is it 0W-20. I don't think half of the cars taken for service at these large chain garages end up getting the oil the manufacturer specifies.

The place where my car is serviced always have to be told that 0W20 is Toyota's recommendation for the engine and is in the handbook. Apparently their supplier tells them it should 5W30 which they, I'm sure, ignore after I confirm 0W20.

I've written before that most of those oil checkers are incorrect, in my experience.

[Cyker]

Yeah, even Opie Oils was showing 5w30 for my old Mk2 originally, and they're usually one of the more reliable vendors! That's one thing that's good about having the printed manual handy as it's a lot harder to argue against when it's there printed plainly in black and white!

[Slartybartfast]

I have written elsewhere on here that Opie used to list 5W30 only for my car, after entering the registration. It now looks as though that has been corrected to 0W20. Maybe someone put them right?

10/10 for them now getting it right.

[TonyHSD]

Most oil catalogs give wrong suggestions on oils and lubricants for the cars. Best is the car owners manual, oil filler cap, or oem repair manual.
Anything else can mislead.  
For engine you can use any brand motor oil as long as is exact spec match, however for transmission fluid best practice is only original fluid, and same for the coolant.