Powering From Cigarette Lighter When Parked

[Gustaw]

Two questions :

1. Could one definitely confirm that cigarette lighter socket and other sockets in 4.3 are disconnected from the Battery when the ignition is in OFF state.

2. Can this condition be bypassed in any way ?

What prompted me to ask is an idea of purchasing a solar Battery maintainer / charger similar to the one discussed in this existing thread :

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91471

However the functionality of the socket(s) is not just limited to this kind of chargers.

For example, in my old Ford Focus the cigarette lighter socket remained live when the ignition was switched off.

I did not use it for recharging the car Battery however I did use it to recharge my mobile battery.

Occasionally I used to leave my mobile charging in the car when the car was parked in the secure car park.

This no longer appears to be an option with RAV.

It is a minor drawback so I am not complaining.

There other gadgets powered from the car sockets (vacuum cleaners, compressors etc) that one could consider purchasing but to be fair most of them are designed to be used while one is actually in or nearby the car.

[Davrav]

Two questions :

1. Could one definitely confirm that cigarette lighter socket and other sockets in 4.3 are disconnected from the battery when the ignition is in OFF state.

2. Can this condition be bypassed in any way ?

What prompted me to ask is an idea of purchasing a solar battery maintainer / charger similar to the one discussed in this existing thread :

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91471

However the functionality of the socket(s) is not just limited to this kind of chargers.

For example, in my old Ford Focus the cigarette lighter socket remained live when the ignition was switched off.

I did not use it for recharging the car battery however I did use it to recharge my mobile battery.

Occasionally I used to leave my mobile charging in the car when the car was parked in the secure car park.

This no longer appears to be an option with RAV.

It is a minor drawback so I am not complaining.

There other gadgets powered from the car sockets (vacuum cleaners, compressors etc) that one could consider purchasing but to be fair most of them are designed to be used while one is actually in or nearby the car.

One can deffinitely confirm that there is no power to cigarette lighter socket or accessory sockets unless ignition is switched to 'ACC'

Not sure about bypassing the system though.

[Gustaw]

Two questions :

1. Could one definitely confirm that cigarette lighter socket and other sockets in 4.3 are disconnected from the battery when the ignition is in OFF state.

2. Can this condition be bypassed in any way ?

What prompted me to ask is an idea of purchasing a solar battery maintainer / charger similar to the one discussed in this existing thread :

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91471

However the functionality of the socket(s) is not just limited to this kind of chargers.

For example, in my old Ford Focus the cigarette lighter socket remained live when the ignition was switched off.

I did not use it for recharging the car battery however I did use it to recharge my mobile battery.

Occasionally I used to leave my mobile charging in the car when the car was parked in the secure car park.

This no longer appears to be an option with RAV.

It is a minor drawback so I am not complaining.

There other gadgets powered from the car sockets (vacuum cleaners, compressors etc) that one could consider purchasing but to be fair most of them are designed to be used while one is actually in or nearby the car.

One can deffinitely confirm that there is no power to cigarette lighter socket or accessory sockets unless ignition is switched to 'ACC'

Not sure about bypassing the system though.

Thank you Davrav for a definitive answer ... :)

[bothwell_buyer]

Simple enough to hard wire another socket, or you could use the existing with some sort of filter/diode??

[shcm]

The cigarette lighter would appear not to be the simplest. The other two sockets (cubby box and boot) appear to be fed from a single relay. You should be able to permanently enable those.

Here is a possibility (sorry about the bad pictures - no charged batteries for camera, had to use my phone):

Remove the glove box. There are enough descriptions here on how to do that.

Locate the Relay - The blue things on the far left hand side.

It is the group labelled R/B5. You can see where I removed the actual relay by comparing the two pictures. It is the second relay up from the bottom. Remove the relay. Then you will need to find someway to short connections 5 and 3 in the relay socket together. 5 and 3 are the two relay pin sockets on the right after you have removed the relay.

Note, I haven't checked this out completely - limited time, the sun was setting on me, but it seems to buzz out OK, but do at your own risk.

Any problems with flat batteries or other side-effects as a result of this mod are your own problem (although at the moment I can't see of any).

Don't say I never do anything for you :P

Cheers

EDIT:

It seems to be as I thought. There is only the cubby box socket and the boot socket supplied by this relay. There is certainly no other current drawn when connections 5 and 3 are shorted together in place of the relay contacts. So there should be no other problems apart from the potential to flatten you Battery with anything left in either the front cubby box or boot socket. Also no additional wiring to route.

Options to do this are probably something like:

• Two male lucars connected together with say about 2mm diameter wire, with one lucar inserted in each connection (5 and 3).
  
• Get hold of another relay (Denso Part 156700-2870, Toyota Part 90987-02027), carefully open it, disconnect the coil and permanently connect the relay contacts together, then reassemble. This would make quite a tidy well insulated solution.
  
• If available, find another relay in the same package, only a "normally closed" one instead. Cut away the external coil connections (blade nos. 1 and 2)
  
• Even badly bodge together two male lucars like below and insert into the 5 and 3 blade sockets.
  
• You might even find something like a double lucar.
  

Very simple job done I would think.

[Gustaw]

The cigarette lighter would appear not to be the simplest. The other two sockets (cubby box and boot) appear to be fed from a single relay. You should be able to permanently enable those.

...

...

...

Many thanks shcm.

This is exactly what I was after.

Firstly the circuit diagram confirms why the power is cut off.

Secondly the proposed workaround should work.

I agree that the best mod would be to get a relay part and to permanently connect relay contact 3 and 5.

Very neat solution indeed.

[shcm]

Many thanks shcm.

Just yell if there's anything else and if I've got the time, I'll do my best to help.

[junebug1701]

It seems to be as I thought. There is only the cubby box socket and the boot socket supplied by this relay. There is certainly no other current drawn when connections 5 and 3 are shorted together in place of the relay contacts. So there should be no other problems apart from the potential to flatten you battery with anything left in either the front cubby box or boot socket. Also no additional wiring to route.

Very simple job done I would think.

I did this to mine a while back. After removing the blue relay, I soldered a jumper wire between terminals 5 and 3. I made sure to solder the jumper at the base of the blade so the relay could still fit in the socket. Plugged it back in and it works a treat!

[Gustaw]

Remove the glove box. There are enough descriptions here on how to do that.

Locate the Relay - The blue things on the far left hand side.

Remove the relay. Then you will need to find someway to short connections 5 and 3 in the relay socket together. 5 and 3 are the two relay pin sockets on the right after you have removed the relay.

I was able to remove the glove box. I located the Relay.

Before I proceed any further one key question :

Do I need to do anything else BEFORE removing the relay ?

For example, do I need to disconnect the Battery ?

It seems to be as I thought. There is only the cubby box socket and the boot socket supplied by this relay. There is certainly no other current drawn when connections 5 and 3 are shorted together in place of the relay contacts. So there should be no other problems apart from the potential to flatten you battery with anything left in either the front cubby box or boot socket. Also no additional wiring to route.

Options to do this are probably something like:

.....

[*] Two male lucars connected together with say about 2mm diameter wire, with one lucar inserted in each connection (5 and 3).

.....

[*] Even badly bodge together two male lucars like below and insert into the 5 and 3 blade sockets.

OK, I have lucars, I have the 2.5mm copper wire, I have crimping tool ... all ready to go ... :D

I need to build a simple jumper to connect terminals 3 and 5. Easy.

Final question.

I do not plan to insert the relay back (pointless in my opinion).

Based on the diagram, I think, I need to bulid another jumper to connect terminals 1 and 2.

Am I right ?

[shcm]

Do I need to do anything else BEFORE removing the relay ?

For example, do I need to disconnect the battery ?

It's always a good idea to disconnect the Battery. I didn't, but then allegedly I know what I'm doing.

Based on the diagram, I think, I need to bulid another jumper to connect terminals 1 and 2.

Am I right ?

No, don't do that! You'll create a short where the relay coil was and blow a fuse.

Might be a good idea to tape over the exposed 1 and 2 terminals with some insulting (sorry insulating) tape.

Remember the two lucars are going into the two right most sockets. Both blades should be vertical.

Good Luck!

[Gustaw]

It's always a good idea to disconnect the battery. I didn't, but then allegedly I know what I'm doing.

I am reluctant to power off the entire vehicle unnecessarily ...

With some systems it is sometimes difficult to bring them back to life again ... ;) (by education I am an electrical engineer :D )

I guess I know what I am doing in this particular case based on the info provided (that relay, that connectors, that diagram etc).

My only remaining issue was around the function of terminals 1-2 so :

No, don't do that! You'll create a short where the relay coil was and blow a fuse.

OK, I was not sure if that circuit powers anything else.

If it just there in between chassis and ACC to power the coil (and nothing else) then indeed no need to connect these terminals.

Also I did not know the resistance of the coil. For DC a coil represents nearly a short circuit.

OK, all clear now. "Insulting" tape is a solution of choice indeed ... :D

Gustaw

[shcm]

I am reluctant to power off the entire vehicle unnecessarily ...

Yep, that fair enough. I understand your reluctance. I usually do a few checks/measurements with a DVM before jumping in though.

OK, I was not sure if that circuit powers anything else.

I'm about 99% certain it doesn't. As I said further up the thread, as a double check I looked for any current flow thorough those relay connections and without anything in either acc socket, there was none.

For DC a coil represents nearly a short circuit.

I'd expect it to be in the order of 100 ohms resistive or more.

[John Boy]

Hi guys. I became a Rav owner last month and am wanting to do this modification. Does anyone know if this is the same procedure for the 4.2 rav (2001) ? Relay behind the glovebox ? Many thanks. John

[shcm]

Don't know about the cig lighter.

You could try relay "D" back of the "driver's side" junction box, for the other acc sockets.

OK, that is for a LHD, but it is all I seem to have. Been a while since I owned a 4.2 and I can't remember whether the junction boxes swap with the "handedness". You'll have to look.

[pmb]

had a quick look on mine(it's getting dark and the football is starting soon) Fuses on rhd vehicle are on drivers side. Couldn't find the internal fusebox and the Haynes manual shows pics for lhd models. Found the pollen filter though , better get a new one!

[John Boy]

Thanks guys. I ll have to have a look to see if I can identify anything that looks like the diagram. I was just wanting to run a charger from the 12V boot socket as its more convenient than accessing the Battery on the Rav.

Strangely (assuming they do run from the same circuit/relay) the 12V socket by the handbrake does nt seem to be working even with ignition on, where as the boot socket works fine. Any suggestions on the fault here ? Incidentally I have nt touched anything yet

[shcm]

My memory might be playing me up, but I thought both handbrake and boot sockets were off the same feed - I seem to remember there being a total combined max power rating.

Maybe the connection has dropped off / been disconnected from the handbrake one?

[Gustaw]

I need to build a simple jumper to connect terminals 3 and 5. Easy.

Yes, easy ...

I built it.

It took me nearly ... 2 years to build.

:D

Well ...

At that time 2 years ago the immediate need (a plan to drive to Rome) ... passed ... however this little project remained on my list of things-to-do ... with low priority.

Today at last I took the lucars, the wire, the solder, the insulating tape and built and installed that jumper.

Project accomplished.

Sockets seem to provide power.

So far so good.

I will report if the Battery goes flat or when there are any other signs that this procedure did not worked as expected.

Gustaw

[allycomet]

Hi Folks,

Isn't this all a bit complicated or is that just me . Could you not just buy a 12v socket, wire it to a permanent supply then mount under dash or wherever?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12v-Waterproof-Socket-Cigarette-Lighter-Accessory-NEW-/260621467260?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cae3ffe7c

[crofter]

shcm,

If the relay is removed,3&5 bridged, could 2 be used as an ignition switch controlled power supply?

Del

[shcm]

If the relay is removed,3&5 bridged, could 2 be used as an ignition switch controlled power supply?

Del

Yeah, I suppose it probably could. You might have to limit what current you draw as the 7.5A ACC fuse has current flowing through it supplying other bits and pieces, so it could pop with you adding far less than 7.5A load. The power outlet relay coil that it is no longer supplying would be what? say 100mA or so.

Isn't this all a bit complicated or is that just me .

Well, remove a relay, put in a shorting link and use existing fittings OR add an extra fuse, route new wiring and screw in a new socket somewhere. Provided it is not a high current or RF tranceiver type installation, I know which one I think is less hassle.

[allycomet]

If the relay is removed,3&5 bridged, could 2 be used as an ignition switch controlled power supply?

Del

Yeah, I suppose it probably could. You might have to limit what current you draw as the 7.5A ACC fuse has current flowing through it supplying other bits and pieces, so it could pop with you adding far less than 7.5A load. The power outlet relay coil that it is no longer supplying would be what? say 100mA or so.

Isn't this all a bit complicated or is that just me .

Well, remove a relay, put in a shorting link and use existing fittings OR add an extra fuse, route new wiring and screw in a new socket somewhere. Provided it is not a high current or RF tranceiver type installation, I know which one I think is less hassle.

Ah but personally (If I was doing the job)I know which is option is less likely to end up with a molten lump at the side of the road

[pmb]

Sorry for the bump but has anyone done this on a 4.2? The relay is a nightmare to get to and I don't think putting 2 lucar connectors in would be easy. Had a quick yank on the relay , it seems very tight.

[Steve Graham]

I've just had a look, and can't budge the relay in situ. It looks to me as though you'd have to detach and flex the whole fuse/relay panel to give yourself room, and that seems to imply also removing the interior trim panel under the steering wheel.

It's put me off the whole idea. (For the minute).

[dervdave]

Why not just run a 12v socket from the cabin direct to the Battery.